Fox "news."

Y’all should take a break from this heated conversation....and go to The Butt Thread to cool off- Wooosah

 

... and what's all the fuss about the Bureau of Land Management (BLM)? I never thought that would be controversial.

The GOP is un-American. It's actually become a full-fledged fascist party.

 

That’s alright. Your approval doesn’t mean jack to me.

Fringe activists have tried to make the Gadsden Flag a racist symbol through history revisionism. It’s only a matter of time before Old Glory becomes one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...signia-could-be-punishable-racial-harassment/

Oh wait, what’s this? It’s already happening

Anonymous source demands 'neighbour' takes down American flag from his house because of its message

 

Contrary to what Rudy says, he was a two bit mayor. 9/11 was a fortuitous event for him.
In regards to Hannity. He has always been a Limbaugh wannabe, but you know what they say about radio talk show hosts. People who can't get a real job.

 

I don't think there's a hostile workplace case here. To show a hostile work environment, a claimant would have to show that the work environment was intimidating, offensive or hostile to a reasonable person. Minor annoyances and isolated incidents generally don't count. I have trouble seeing the symbol as unambiguously racist.

Fringe right wing activists have been trying to make the Gadsden flag a symbol of something since the sixties. What would that be? The flag was introduced during the Revolutionary War as a message from the American colonies to England. It was picked up by the Tea Party as a symbol of resistance to the federal government in general and Obama in particular. But not overtly racist.

From the facts you presented, it seems unlikely that a co-worker wearing a Gadsden flag, in and of itself, would be a basis for a successful hostile work environment complaint. Of course, circumstances could change that picture. If the co-worker said to the complaintant,:"You know, this is a Gadsden flag. Did you know the guy who designed it was a big time slave owner and bought slaves from the Trans Atlantic slave trade, and that's why I'm wearing it--to show you every day that I like a guy who enslaved your ancestors," and the complaintant went to the boss about it and the boss said "Tough tonails", I could see the basis for a case. That's why the EEOC said the facts presented were insufficient, although it left the door open to presenting further facts that might change its assessment.

If the employer were a government entity, the co-worker would be exercising his legitimate rights of freedom of symbolic speech. A private employer, however, could legally ban such political symbols. Would it have to? That, of course, would be a fact question to be decided by the EEOC, in the first instance, and the jury in the second, assuming the decision would be taken to court.
As for Old Glory, banning that would truly be a reductio ad absurdum, since it's the symbol of our country. We'd have to assume that all of the administrative decision makers and judges have gone insane. I think a "reasonable person" test would defeat such a claim.

 

It becomes increasingly obvious that the right has nothing to contribute, the things they seem so concerned about seem so petty or even imaginary.

In a world in which there is ongoing death, disease, hardship, poverty, inequality, environmental degradation and corruption they big concerns seem to be flags and statues, conspiracies and the myths of political correctness.

It seems to me that many on the right don’t want the real problems highlighted because they know they have no soliutions.

I feel sorry for them they are sad sad people that have nothing of good to contribute to their society they just have their bile, bitching and their hate, lacking in solutions, insights or empathy, if anything they are the problem, a cancer eating away at American society.

 

Lol ok Karen

See what Balbus is doing folks, is he is subverting to argument toward something totally different because he has no argument of his own

“There’s so much fucked up shit in the world going on, and all you care about is statues, historic monuments, and flags?”

There’s a time and place for all these discussions. You can’t just deflect like this whenever you want.

This can be immaturity at best, but cowardice at worst.

I shall remember this for next time he gripes about his first world problems.

 

6

LOL what argument am I supposedly subverting?

My argument seems clear – it is that the right these days don’t seem to have any real solutions. They just seem to moan and bitch – ask them questions and they can’t answer, ask them to explain their thinking and they more often than not refuse.

On the few occasions right wingers do answer or do explain it becomes very clear very quickly that their ideas are ill thought through and more likely to make bad situations worse

In absence of any real or tangible arguments the right these days just seem to fall back on conspiracy theories and petty attacks.

I mean look at your own post you don’t refute my argument you actually seem to exemplify it.

 

Some thoughts on the right wing media

In another thread I said

Old style revolutionary Socialism was often the spur to bring in more distributive systems established wealth fearing such revolution (see 1848 and 1917) and often brought in measures to curb exploitation (the Bismarck). The rise of Soviet Russia meant that many governments to gain popular consent for anti-communist policies had to look like they cared for their own ‘down trodden’ and brought in policies that helped their own poor. The decline and fall of the Soviets allowed wealth to believe that since there was no alternative (see End of History by Francis Fukuyama) that they could stop and even reverse distributive policies.

Left wingers never stopped supporting distributive systems that were aimed at helping everyone but with no socialist Russia to worry about right wingers stopped feeling that they had to carry on supporting such things.

Because soviet newspapers were full of propaganda, it was believed that the wests free press had to be seen to be more honest (to a degree of honesty).

But with the decline and fall of soviet Russia while the more liberal press carried on trying to be balanced and honest there were those on the right that felt they didn’t have carry on like that.

So the right wing media felt free to become as propaganda heavy as the old soviet media had been.

 

[bullahit]

[/Bullshit]

You said:

In other words, “How can you talk about XYZ, when there are kids starving in Djibouti?” Arguments like this disregard the discussion by subverting the topic elsewhere.

 

6

In a world in which there is ongoing death, disease, hardship, poverty, inequality, environmental degradation and corruption they big concerns seem to be flags and statues, conspiracies and the myths of political correctness.

I'm sorry but too often right wingers don’t really talk or debate they just seem to moan and bitch often about petty things because they don’t seem to have solutions to anything especially the big things.

Are you denying there is a problem with racism in the US if not what is your argument?

If yes what would you put forward as a solution?

 

to carry on from my earlier post

What I think we could be headed for, if nothing is done, is that right wing politicians, media and supporters pronouncements and views becoming increasingly divorced from reality (some say that has already happened).

Like those Communist party pronouncements appearing in Pravda about the fantastic amount of coal or bread that was been produced in a country where people were going cold and hungry.

But just as in Soviet Russia in the end only the brainwashed base will continue to believe it.

 

Can people please read the sticky in the Politic forum

A polite notice

And the Politics forum Guidelines

Politics Forum Guidelines

The second of which states very clearly -

As often stated this is not a bulletin board it is a place to debate politics. [my bold]

The Politics forum has long been different than the other forums in the Hip universe with its own rules and even at times restrictions (at one time you needed to have posted 100 posts in other forums before been allowed to post in Politics)

It has also allowed a certain amount of leeway - there is a realisation that debates can be heated and a blind eye can be given BUT too often these days there are those coming to the forum that have no intention of entering into debate and others whose sole purpose seems to be to snipe at those that do and disrupt those that are taking place.

If people genuinely wish to debate they are welcome but if not and only post in Politics to spread lies and culture war propaganda they are not welcome and their posts may be deleted and if they persist in trying to be disruptive then other measures might need to be taken.

 

To carry on from what i said above

I just wonder how far does the reality have to become from divorced from the propaganda for Fox views or Limbaugh listeners etc to wake up and see thought the smoke and mirrors?

Although I suppose there are still many in Russia that think Stalin was a great leader.

 

Yeah lets get this thread back on topic.

The real question is why is the left so concerned about these statues, political correctness & hate speech, and flags?
Last time I checked, it was the left who is tearing the statues down, making Mississippi change their flag, and getting people in trouble for insensitive choice of words.
In a world where there is ongoing death, disease, hardship, poverty, inequality, environmental degradation and corruption, this is what they're whining about?

Seems to me that many on the left are avoiding more important problems, and focusing on petty stuff.

 

Once again, there is no entity called "the Left', although you are correct that leftist elements--especially a tiny minority of red hots--are leading the effort. And why? Because symbols have the power to stir emotions, and those broader ideas Balbus talks about, tend to go over the heads of the average Joes and Josephines. Also, because it is easier to get establishment concessions about such things, since the elites can score points without much cost to themselves and divert attention from more costly demands. When aimed at Confederates, it was easy to get liberals on board, cuz after all the Confederates being honored were traitors who took up arms against the Union. When it comes to Chris Columbus, Jefferson, Jackson, and George, however, the charge is led by a tiny minority of extremists and implemented by a mob. These folks are leftists, but not "the Left". Already, I think the tide has turned against them. The real question is why you are so concerned about them.

 

All these topics you just mentioned here seem to be at the BOTTOM of the Republican list of important items. Since you seem to be a radical righty, why would you even mention these topics as though they held some weight and importance for conservatives??? The conservative approach on these topics has been:
(1) Death - it happens. So what?
(2) Disease - been around for thousands of years. Work 3 or 4 jobs so you can afford to buy the health-care insurance with the least amount of coverage. The out of pocket expenses will be hefty, and the deductibles MUST rise to be competitive, - but hey ...…. You want a good plan, you say?? If you have to ask how much ……….. you can't afford a good plan.
(3) Hardship - I grew up in a one-room house with only one window. We walked to school 20 miles uphill - both ways. First pair of shoes for my 16th birthday. Stop whining and get to work somewhere. (Reality - born into a RICH family, inherited a huge sum of money and had a trust fund of 6 or 7 figures when born. Act like they earned it all by themselves.)
(4) Poverty - You're poor because one of two things is true: you're lazy, or you're stupid.
(5) Inequality - Well ….. you can't expect to have all the things that some of us have. WE worked very hard to get where we are. After all - we belong to the all the very best country clubs and live in a gated community. Surely we should get the best seats, first acceptances at major universities for our kids …………… and to not be stopped for merely a tail light out!!!
(6) Environmental degradation - "Drill, baby, DRILL!!!" We see no need to put burdensome regulations on the oil & gas industries, the chemical / pesticide / herbicide industries, coal-fired power plants, and we certainly don't need to waste billions of dollars on updating our water treatment facilities. Our drinking water is just fine. All those high mercury readings downwind from coal-fired power plants are just an anomaly of nature. Those clusters of cancer and birth defects are just a coincidence. We're going to roll back the regulations on air & water standards. Auto manufacturers can build cars with less restrictive pollution standards.They are a burden to those businesses and industries. It affects their bottom lines.
(7) Corruption - Corruption??? What corruption???? Our great president, Donald J. Rump has fired all those nasty folks who "claim" to have information about his business and political dealings that are illegal. ……….. But .........… we all know they are liars - all 3 dozen of them - and Ms. Stormy Daniels too - and have something biased against our wonderful president. And our wonderful president has the right to block any subpoenas, witnesses, testimony, tapes, documents, and ALL Congressional investigations into his actions. We believe in our wonderful Constitution, where it says the president has the final say on EVERYTHING, and Congress shall not interfere with him at all. They have no right to investigate him at all - so he hasn't obstructed justice …………… as some have tried to "claim." And when our wonderful president (while he was running for president) asked if Russia was listening - if they would please find Hillary's e-mails so he could use them to make her look bad - it's OK to ask a COMMUNIST ADVERSARY for help to get elected. And trust them in everything they say. And it's also OK to try to block any books or interviews that may reveal the truth about what he has said or done behind closed doors. The public has NO RIGHT to know those private things. That's why our wonderful president has said he's "the most transparent president in history." Just because he's hired and paid by the taxpayers doesn't mean he's accountable to them.

This ^^^^^ has been the REPUBLICAN approach to these problems that you so dutifully listed as important. So why aren't the Dems working on those?? They've been trying for decades but the REPUBLICANS have blocked every effort to make progress on them. It seems more important to the REPUBLICANS to give H-U-G-E tax breaks to multi-millionaires and multi-billionaires and big corporations than treat the avg. American with equality, or care about the environment, or people's health care needs - not luxuries - NEEDS.

The REPUBLICAN approach - every man for himself. You're on your own. You against the big business machine and the world. And you must become financially secure on the meager, 1970's / 1980's level pay that we are paying you as business owners. Increase the minimum wage???!!! There shouldn't even BE a minimum wage!!!!!! You workers are lazy & overpaid NOW !!!! ( see business exits to COMMUNIST CHINA, Mexico, Indonesia, Malaysia, Honduras, Pakistan, Peru, Singapore, India, Bangladesh, etc. ........... for poverty - level wage workers in sweatshops)

 

It seems to me that the conservatives are the ones concerned about those things

1. You might want to research your comment about who is tearing down statues.
And
2. I believe that, Mississippi alone, decided to change their flag. I don't recall hearing anyone telling them to do that.

This actually makes no sense.

Now that's what I call irony.

 

Holy cow watched the Fox News for an hour. '

All the channels are pretty bad but holy cow what a bunch of sack of crap one sided propaganda.