Your expectations

Damn, I've been outed. Ok, I'm really a 47 year old female divorcee who finally got shed of that POS who literally fucked me for 27 years along with about 20 other women, all sluts. I've got little sagging b cup tits, a big ass, and thinning hair I keep pretty short. It's mousey gray. Your fantasy soccer mom I'm not. Nor am I one of those Milf's everyone wants to get in bed. I hold a doctorate degree in psychology and teach part time at the local community college. That's pretty much the only work I can find as they tell me at McDonalds I'm over qualified to operate the deep fryer. One of those papers Crazy listed used part of my doctorate dissertation as part of their research into false identities and the cause for them. As you can see I'm well versed in the ability to create false personas using them across the internet in order to fulfill my fantasies. I'm bisexual leaning towards loving my woman friends, one of which I have been exclusive with for going on 18 months. She rides a motorcycle and is the vice president of the gang "Dykes on Bikes". We had a blast at Sturgis last year. Most of the stories I tell on forums are the fantasies I never had with that POS ex husband. If he'd only taken the time to really listen to me and my desires, help me get breast enhancement surgery, and bio-identical hormone replacement therapy, along with some liposuction I would have dyed my hair and been his whore and slut. Plus all of the above is totally made up in case anybody's expectations of who I am are different from reality. Which really isn't real.

 

Haha, you're safe. I assure you no one on Hip > L+S is going to read this thread since it isn't about if you ever squirted in your own mouth, or if you can lick your own p*ssy. It's just the three of us reading this

Barry one of the most interesting course I took in my post-grad studies was a 500 level physiologically course from a prof who was commissioned to conduct research on online bullying. I was allowed to take one elective course outside of my faculty and I chose a Psych course. This was many years ago when this concept was relatively new. His research was based around an essential question something along the lines of the psychology behind online bullies and sexual predators. That is, how online social media platforms such as IRC (Internet Relay Chat, popular at the time), Usenet (again, popular for the era) and forums such as Hip allows extra tools and abilities for sociopaths to do their dirty work. His papers and subsequent discussion with other students were an eye-opener. I was going to link some of his papers but I don't want to blow my cover haha

Apparently "Dykes on Bikes" is a chartered MC club with 22 chapters and numerous affiliations.
Dykes on Bikes

Here is their patch. How 'bout the ginger #3 from the top guys? I wonder how they initiate new members. Seriously, how can you not love this country????

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I read your post with care. Sorry for the delay. I needed some time to think about it.

So as you previously guessed, my area of expertise is technology. We’re venturing into an area where I don’t have much knowledge. I noticed you just posted in the Sexless Marriage thread about attachment being the source of all pain. You also alluded to eastern philosophies compared to western capitalism and materialism. It is difficult for me to understand this because for better or worse, I’ve fully embraced the western values of greed, money and boy-toys. I don’t mean the sexual ones. You are indeed correct. Every time I get a new man-toy, it’s another headache. One more thing that requires maintenance, perhaps insurance, one more thing to worry about. More things on my to-do list. It never ends.

You sir, are entirely correct in your observations. I’m always looking for the next high as you so eloquently described it. In my never ending pursuit of happiness, I’m always wanting bigger, more horsepower, faster, shinier, lighter, heavier, 8 instead of 6 instead of 4 instead of 2. It never ends. I’m never satisfied. I will never be able to achieve “chitta” - the state of bliss and happiness that you described because I always have the means to make things better, to reach the next high, bigger, better, more, faster … it's never enough. It is a really frustrating way to live. But it’s the only way I know.

Let me bring this back to sex, since that is what we are here to discuss on Hip > L+S. It is the same with sex. 20 years of sex with the same woman on a strictly monogamous relationship, we keep passing our hard limits looking for the next sexual high. That is how I landed on Hip Forums. I’m looking for new ideas like the pic I saw of your wife’s backside with the button crotch. The way you described unbuttoning it with your teeth. I literally ran out to buy one for my wife ‘cuz I want to do that too exactly the way you so elegantly described it.

Once I’ve done that a few times, I’ll be back on Hip looking for another sex idea to try. This is a nice problem to have but I fear it’ll never end. You described this scenario perfectly in your 5x5 box, vs 10x10 box, vs a warehouse. This is exactly my experience. As you mentioned, this is the western way of life. We’ve been taught that anyone can achieve the American Dream. We’re taught that the American Dream is why people come to this country. You are also correct. Hip Forums L+S will never offer you “chitta”. No one on this forum will reach a state where we’ve had enough.

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Below is just some random musings, JFF. Sorry it’s a bit long winded. I did sacrifice a good deal of quality porn-watching time for this HAHA

I’d like to be clear that I understand and fully respect your position. However, I’d like to offer several counterpoints for you to consider.

Counter point #1 - is blissful ignorance happiness?
Pls correct me if I’m wrong. Your argument is basically along the lines of “if a tree falls in the forest does anyone hear it?” In other words, if a tree falls in the forest and no one notices, did it actually fall?

Another way I understand your example is a documentary I watched of an African village where the women are grinding flour by hand. They have absolutely nothing. Yet they are smiling and singing like they are the happiest people on earth. So your ponderings make me ask the question - who has a better life? These African villagers who have probably never had a vacation or even set foot in an ocean? Or me? I travel every now and then, decent car, milf wife, nice man toys. Who is truly happier?

I feel your essential question is if you’ve never experienced something, you are in blissful ignorance. Can one be truly happy in a state of ignorance?

I’ll use myself as an example. Like you, my wife and I have great sex but within the boundaries of our own comfort level. We’re super kinky. More than most on this forum I believe. However I tried to join some BDSM forums and I’m not into kink at that extreme level. In addition, I’ve never had the pleasure of a one night stand, never had a fwb, never had a MFM or MFF. I’m a super late starter. Didn’t even lose my virginity until 26 or 27. I didn’t even start dating until probably 25 or so depending on your definition of “dating”. So am I missing out? I think the answer lies in the eye of the beholder.


Example, Barry describes the exhilaration when one anticipates sex with a new partner. He had many partners. I’ve had two. Perhaps Barry feels that I’m missing out. But for me, I’ve never had many partners so I don’t know what I’m missing. Now Barry is not into pain sex or kink. I absolutely love both. It’s exhilarating for my wife and myself! I personally think anyone who has never tried kink is missing out on some very exciting sexual experiences.

Places like Hip and Literotica plays an interesting middle ground between the black and white dichotomy I just described above. In a way, I can have the fwb, multiple partners, wife sharing, cuck experiences by reading other people's post and imagining them. This is why I enjoy reading other people’s experiences (like yours) and vicariously through them regardless of if they are real or fictitious.

So to conclude my counter point #1, my essential question back to you is as follows: Can blissful ignorance bring genuine happiness? In our world of ubiquitous information (internet, information at our fingertips, as much as we want), is it even possible to remain blissfully ignorant? I’d like to argue that the internet and media is one of the causes of our capitalistic behavior and materialistic desires to want more, bigger, faster and better. The internet shows us that we can always have a cooler car, faster bike and higher highs. I’m going to argue that you can’t achieve chitta or that meditative state of calmness when you have access to something like the internet. Or if you can, then you’re a lot stronger willed than me. Can one function in our western society without an email address, cell phone or internet? I’m going to say not possible. For the above reasons, “chitta” or genuine calmness of mind, body and soul can’t happen here in the west.

Counter point #2 - Romanticize it how you wish, it’s complacency.
I first want to be clear that I intend no disrespect to your ideas. I feel I understand your position and I respect it. You can give it a fancy name and call it “chitta”, a meditative state where the mind is quiet and content, free of desires and wants, where the pursuit of happiness doesn’t need to continue … or you can call it complacency. This is not the American way. We’re aggressive pursuers of money, business, innovation, man-toys like motorcycles, boats, RV’s, guitars, guns, sport / athletics, women. Once we reach our goal and there’s a Harley on our driveway, we’ll set a higher one and look for a bigger / louder one. If we have a ‘69 Notchback Mustang in our driveway, then we’re ready to pursue a ‘67 Fastback Mustang. Perhaps it is this mindset that drives men and women to pursue multiple partners and cheat on each other. That is, the constant search for more, better, hotter, younger. Perhaps this is the dark side to this western mindset. While there may be some among us who can turn this off, I think for the majority of North Americans (we can include Canada), this is bred into our psyche and can’t be reversed in the same way you can’t take the jungle out of a wolf.

While other countries point a finger at our capitalistic western ways and pursuit of materialism, my question is what is the state of their country. So I watched a short documentary about Chitta as you described it. This is popular in Indian / Hindi culture. Let’s take a look at some basic metrics of that country. 2nd most populated country in the word, 142nd in GDP ranking.

How is it that America, a country that is hardly 300 years old can grow from literally zero to the third most populated country in the world, first in GDP and a military superpower far surpassing even the combined strength of all other nations? How did a country of less than 300 years old have a STATE (Texas) that has the 10th largest economy in the world when compared to other countries? California I should add is the 4th largest economy by GDP compared to other countries. The tiny state of New York produces more economically than all of Canada. How is it that a country like USA with such a short history can surpass two of the longest standing continuous cultures in the world: China and Japan. These are civilizations that have been in continuous existence for 5000+ years. However I should mention that Imperialist Japan ended with their surrender in WW2. I’m going to argue that it is capitalism, the ability to individually profit from our own hard work / innovation / business and good ol’ American GREED that got us here so fast.

Ronald Regan said it so eloquently in one of his speeches. North America (you can include Canada) is founded by people around the world. It is one of the unique places on this earth where you can freely bring your culture and practice your religion. Regan also mentioned that America is uniquely situated between the Atlantic and Pacific ocean giving it the ability to police the world. While many will chive at this notion. I argue that if USA doesn’t do it someone else will do it. If USA because of didn’t pursue WMD because of complacency then others will.

If you step back even further and view history from a wide angle lens, what if USA had a complacent “chitta” attitude in WW2? What if Japan was SMART and did not attack Pearl Harbour. What if American politicians did not get the support they needed to gain public support to officially (and legally I might add) enter WW2. Nazi Germany occupied France in 1940. At this time, Britain was nearly encircled by UBoats. GB was almost cut off completely. USA entered WW2 in 1941 but wouldn’t land on Normandy or Omaha beach with other allied forces until 1944. What if through complacency, USA never did that. What if France was never liberated from Nazi occupation and Hitler’s onward march was not stopped? What if a complacent attitude stopped USA from entering the Pacific theater of war with Japan? People complain why should USA have the self appointed right to push their foreign policy around the world just b/c they have the biggest guns. What if Nazi Germany filled that role? Or imperialistic Japan? Or the former Soviet Union? What our lives look like today if Nazi Germany were the ones sailing around with Trident missiles in the submaries and aircraft carrier groups? My point is that “chitta” or what I would call complacency doesn’t work for North America. We would not be who we are today without our capitalistic, materialistic mindset. It is that very attitude of never settling for good enough that places us where we are today in the world. I say, let’s never lose it.

To conclude my counter point #2, those eastern countries that adopt “chitta” are low producers not just economically, but also in areas like sport and athletics / olympics. In North America, we are bred to pursue aggressively. But like everything, we need to accept the dark side of this behavior as well as reap the many benefits.

Counter Point #3 - Philosophy fallacious reasoning
This CP#3 isn’t really a counter point. I just thought you may be interested in this information because you had alluded to Aristotle / Plato. As you may know, philosophy was one of the first disciplines taught in higher education long before the first university existed. As I mentioned before, I studied applied science and let's just call it “technology” to protect my anonymity. We were required to take 18 credits per semester instead of the normal 15 (many took only 12 credits). For my elective, I chose a 100 level Philosophy course which I figure would be an easy-A. It turned out to be perhaps the most interesting course of my undergraduate years and the only course I actually remembered the content because I still use it to this day.

The course title was “Philosophy 1X1 (I forget the exact course number) - Fallacious Reasoning”. The prof taught up about a dozen types of Fallacious reasoning and the course work involved reading case scenarios and detecting the level of fallacious reasoning. Here are a couple of examples: Trump was famous for his personal attacks. He is a perfect example of using Ad Hominem fallacious reasoning. That is, attack and discredit the person making the argument thereby nullifying the argument. I never said that fallacious reasoning is weak. Ad Hominem is a very powerful tool, one that you’ll see lawyers using to discredit a witness’s account by questioning their character.

Another really popular one is the Strawman Fallacy. This is when someone sidetracks the argument by going off on a tangent or overshadowing it and attacking a weaker version of the original argument. For example: Person A says smoking causes cancer so we should add an extra tax to help pay for the added medical costs. Person B argues: who is the government to decide what is good or bad for me? Where are my individual rights to make my own decisions? What else will the government shove down my throat? Vote against this bill. Person B completely derailed the original argument, weakened it and then attacked the weakened version. This fallacy is just plain manipulative and so easy to pull off to the unsuspecting opponent.

You sir, are trying to pull a red-herring fallacy on me. You’re drawing an example that is only loosely related to what we’re talking about. I understand what you’re saying about Chitta. In fact, I watched a couple of videos on it:



Once again, taking away from my porn time haha but I only see a loose connection to what we’re talking about. Here is a classic red herring fallacy. Smoking is known to increase your chances of cancer therefore we should put warning labels on cigarette packages. Here is the red herring argument: Well walking into a crowded room increases your chances of getting a cold but we don’t put a warning sign on every door do we? Why should we put warning labels on cigarettes? Red herring fallacies are difficult to detect sometimes because they sound so relevant. But in reality, catching a cold has absolutely nothing to do with contracting cancer from smoking even though they are both related to health and sickness. But it sounds good.

Anyways JFF, at this point I’m just offering this bit of information because I thought you may be interested. I remember talking to the prof and telling him how interesting his course was. He was the one who told me Philosophy is the oldest discipline of higher studies dating back to hundreds of years BC. I remember him saying that lawyers are very well versed in structuring their arguments based on strengths and weaknesses of various types of fallacious reasoning.

JFF, just wanted to mention that I really enjoyed this conversation. As I’ve previously stated, I look forward to your response but I certainly don’t expect one.

PS. I’m having some trouble understanding this, can you please explain or give me some examples? :

My mantra is, “I am not the body, I am not even the mind.”

I consider my mind and body as my tools during my stay on this planet. Most people consider their mind and body as them which always pursues more. I use my body and mind to achieve what needs to be achieved. I then place it on the shelf and my mind stage is then empty of all thought (meditative state.)

Most people have continuous chatter in their minds that they cannot stop. They take pills, during booze anything to quiet the chatter for a moment. Or they will engage in sexual discussions to distract them from themselves.

 

Hey Crazytrain341
Thanks for responding, few are interested in this state of mind. I am very happy to discuss this with you. This is my Harley in the driveway. By the way your video is based on the “Aphorisms of Patanjali” one of my favorite books.

You said:

Counter point #1 - is blissful ignorance happiness?

“Pls correct me if I’m wrong. Your argument is basically along the lines of “if a tree falls in the forest does anyone hear it?” In other words, if a tree falls in the forest and no one notices, did it actually fall?”

The tree falling does not make noise. It causes vibrations that the ear drum converts to sound. If a radio station is transmitting and you do not have a radio to convert the vibrational waves is it still transmitting? If the cosmos (or your favorite name for it) were relaying information and you weren’t listening would you understand it?

I completely understand that western position. But let’s expand on your next statement.

You said:

“I feel your essential question is if you’ve never experienced something, you are in blissful ignorance. Can one be truly happy in a state of ignorance?”

The Western world, one can imagine, all takes place within a “snow dome” of their minds. Their “pursuit of happiness” depends on what is received by their 5 senses. They cannot experience something outside their parameters of perception.



That said, one from an Eastern Point of view can say to you the same thing.

If you’ve never experienced something (outside of your 5 senses), you are in blissful ignorance. Can one be truly happy in a state of (material) ignorance?” The only cognitive connection, one living in this snow dome of the 5 senses has, with anything outside of the dome is their religion. People pray to something outside somewhere up there because someone told them or they read it and it became viral. Something they believe and have concluded but don’t understand. Belief is a consequence of social influence all contained within that snow dome.

In conclusion, if “chitta” information is being transmitted to you and your internal information receiver is off does it mean it is not transmitting?

=================

Counter point #2 - Romanticize it how you wish, it’s complacency.

“To conclude my counter point #2, those eastern countries that adopt “chitta” are low producers not just economically, but also in areas like sport and athletics / olympics.”

Very true “low material producers” but based on their sixth sense “chitta” maybe their mental euphoria is greater than any material progress. Maybe they discovered something outside of their snow dome that places their humanity on a back burner. They don’t care about competition.

Counter Point #3 - Philosophy fallacious reasoning.

Falllacious reasoning is a manipulation of facts that take place within my metaphoric “snow dome.” It is simply a play on words to convince or side tack a fact. This conversation you and I are having has to do with what’s outside of the snow dome that can be important to a human mind.

This is where a westerner would say, “this is all bull shit psychedelic hippy shit, see you later.” Or it is the start of something that sounds interesting. Why are these people so content with their live, they have nothing? It’s only a red herring to a mind that is looking for an excuse because he has drawn an ending conclusion within the snow dome existing knowledge.

You and I exist humanly. Westerners in general believe their existence began at birth and will end at death. They pray to an entity that for all intent and purpose exists in their mind somewhere outside the snow dome of material birth and death, unknowable to the 5 senses. This might be a leap but try this on.

Existence is a dance between manifest and un-manifest. The moment there is manifest there is duality. Light and dark, male and female, birth and death and so on. The longing to become “one” finds expression in many ways.

When you are young your intelligence is hijacked by your hormones, sex is the way to this fulfilling oneness. When you are middle aged and your intelligence is hijacked by your emotions, love is the way.

When you are old and bereft of hormonal mischief, prayer is the way.

But irrespective of age, when you transcend all this and seek the same union on a much higher level of awareness, then yoga is the way. Yoga means “to unite.” But unite what. Unite your manifest and un-manifest selves during our existence on earth. When one not only understands this but practices this then his emptiness is no more and he no longer NEEDS another person to make him feel complete. He is just fine on his own now.

This un-manifest to Westerners is their God. To Eastern understanding it is their unseeable other self “The Self” as described by Gurus and Swamis. Have you heard the statement, “ I searched for God and found my SELS?” or “I searched myself and found God?”

Westerners seek union with human sex, bigger houses, Harleys, money, etc. The Easterners POV seek uninterrupted union with their Self to become Whole. They really don’t care much for material wealth.

The eastern POV is they existed for many lifetimes, The un=manifest Self and the human being. Each lifetime is a learning experience to grasp the knowledge of the un=manifest Self to the human. To do this they must satisfy their feeling of emptiness with other people, wives, sex, fuck friends, material stuff, anything where they feel complete and whole. But it is all short lived because its never enough and fades away with time.

If it were not for the mistakes that land a person in the gutter of life, they never would have opened their internal eye to their un=manifest Self within.

To end this, here it is in a nut shell.

A man was walking thru the forest and came upon an old bearded man (Guru) sitting in meditation in front of his meager little shed of a home. The traveler asked the Guru for a drink of water and some food. The Guru complied and they went into his house where the traveler was fed.

The traveler looked around at the poverty of the Guru and noticed a very rare and expensive gem stone on a shelf. He inquired and then Guru told him that there was a king who was very wealthy and had everything and everybody at his disposal but was very unhappy. Then someone told him that a man in the forest could answer his questions as to his misery.

That king visited me and we talked for a day. The king, satisfied with our conversation wanted to thank me so he gave me that gem stone and said it’s value can give you everything you need in your lifetime. Then the king left.

The traveler asked the Guru if he can have the gemstone. The Guru said, “take it if you wish.” Then the traveler, well fed, left with the gift of the gemstone. The Guru returned to his meditation.

The months passed and once again the traveler returned to the Guru’s home. What is it said the Guru. The traveler returned the gemstone to the Guru and said, I do not want the gemstone, I want what it is that is in you that so freely gave it to me without hesitation.”

 

JFF thanks again for the response. Apologies again for a late response. I’m not used to engaging this part of my mind so I have to read your post a few times to get a good grasp of what you’re trying to communicate. This is seriously cutting into my porn watching time! Haha!
In the Sexless Marraige thread:
There are some guys here in a sexless marriage.

You mentioned that you view a relationship as an experience rather than a relationship. Here is your post:
There are some guys here in a sexless marriage.

I didn’t quite understand it but for some reason, this idea stuck to me. Now that we’ve been trading posts back and forth, I think I understand this a bit more. I’m relating your views on “experience” as opposed to a “relationship” between a man and a woman to what you mentioned on your views of a human body. That is, you view your body as a tool which you maintain and use during your time on this planet. You use your mind and body to achieve what needs to be achieved, then it gets placed on a shelf. I’m guessing that includes pleasure. I think I now understand the source of your lack of inhibitions when it comes to exploring sexual desires. Again, I intend no disrespect. In fact, just the opposite, I read your posts about your sexual adventures and I admire that you can do those things. I truly admire it and I wish I had the courage to do it. Especially when it comes to sucking dick. I’m really curious about it. But I honestly think my wife will literally kill me. Or at least she’ll feel completely insulted that she’s not getting it done for me.

Where I differ from you, is that I was always taught that my body is my temple, I have only one so use it wisely. I’m not implying that yours of my philosophy trumps the other. But the way I see it, my philosophy stops me from doing a lot of things in area of sex that I’d really like to try.

JFF, if I’m correct about my understanding of your philosophies, if I understand it more, I may bring this up with my wife and see if she can accept this ideology. She has some really funny hard limits when it comes to sex that I’d love to get past. For example, she’ll let me treat her like a dog, walk her, make her fetch, bark, heel, I’ve spanked her with a rolled up newspaper, but when I bought her a doggie dish she flat out refused it. BUT she’ll eat cum out of my hand or a small bowl. Go figure. Also, she’ll let me shaft her, I can also enter her vag with my fingers and tongue, but she won’t let me use a $20 vibrator on her clit. I don’t dare ask her if I can use a dildo for her. I think she’ll freak out on me. Yet she’ll let me shove her face on the floor where I came and let me spank her as she licks it up. I just find her limits kind of inconsistent but it’s her body, I love her, and I respect her limits. If I understand this idea a bit more about one’s body being a tools, a vehicle we use to get through this live, perhaps my wife and I can lower our inhibitions and get into things like sharing, swapping, swinging, group sex etc… JFF, do I have the right idea? Or is there something I’m missing?

The 5 senses are: smell, touch, taste, sight and hearing.
I’m going to guess that practically everyone is able to experience pleasure or displeasure outside of these senses. Unless I’m mistaken in your interpretation of experiencing feelings outside of the 5 senses, here are some simple examples: when someone is being a total d*ck in traffic, driving aggressively and weaving in and out of traffic … then they get pulled over down the road. Ah! What a great feeling! I’m sure men do this too, but I see it more in women who are exhibitionists … that feeling they get when someone notices them and reacts either in disgust or affirmation of their actions, must be so satisfying for the exhibitionist. Or here’s one of my favorites … when you really go out of your way to help someone and they have no way to repay you, wow what a great feeling! Now since we’re in a love and sex forum, lets talk about sex. Sex uses all of the 5 senses but when one experiences a mind blowing orgasm, I’m going to have to argue that the experience extends well beyond your 5 senses. I’m not sure if I could call an orgasm a “feeling” or sense of touch. None of the above can be categorized into the 5 senses. Now it doesn’t have a fancy name like Chitta (or Citta as in the video I linked) or “Patanjali (Yoga)”, but nonetheless, they are life experiences that we all experience outside of the 5 senses.

Now you mentioned prayer and religion. Although I break a lot of the rules (having “fun” sex, masturbation, watching porn), I still consider myself a practicing Christian - baptized from birth and raised by a Christian family. My wife and all of my kids practice too. There have been a very small handful of cases in my life where I felt that I reached a new plateau through prayer. I’ll briefly share one although this is getting a bit too personal for me so I have to withhold some details.
At an early age, one of my children was diagnosed with a mental disorder. This completely devastated me. I blamed everyone including my wife and myself but worst of all, I blamed the child. Lets just say that lawyers were called, police were involved, things were broken, it involved a knife at one point … this was by far the darkest hours / days / months of my life. I lost my faith but still went to church. For some reason, on one particular day I was actually listening to the gospel, readings and sermon. Then it hit me, maybe I was destined to be this child’s father. Maybe I was chosen to be his dad. Maybe if he would have landed in the hands of some other dad, they wouldn’t take care of this child. Within that one single hour I was in church, I made a complete 180 degree turn. I was going to be the dad that this child needed, the dad that I was chosen to become. Now, I still fought with my wife. At times it was physical. She didn’t agree with me on how to handle this situation. But to make a long story really short, by the time this child reached grade 6, almost all traces of issues were non-existent. Today, this child is 16 years old, and if you met this child, you would not believe me if I told you what we had to go through. You would think I’m lying.

You would know this JFF because I know you’re a parent as well. As a parent, the only thing you want in life is for your children to be OK. That’s it. Just OK. I feel most parents would give his own LIFE for that. Hell I would. In the song “Amazing Grace”, there is a line that says “How precious did that grace appear, the hour I first believed.” That was the hour I first believed. Most of my life, I went to church because the teacher, my parents, my wife said it was time to go. I prayed because my teacher or a parent said it was time to pray. That hour in church changed everything for me. I walked out with a completely different attitude. I simply cannot describe in words what it felt like. This I feel, is an example of experiencing life outside of the snow dome or outside of the 5 senses. To conclude my counter point, you don’t have to practice chitta, or Buddhism to achieve this state of happiness in the ubiquitously capitalistic and materialistic western society.

Well I’m just saying that India, the second largest country by population, 142nd in GDP, a no show in olympics, world cup soccer, rugby, basketball, baseball, volleyball (super popular in many EU countries) etc… I can understand how they can be a no-show in ice hockey and winter olympics haha, and I’m pretty sure they’ll kick ass in cricket. But how can anyone say competition doesn’t matter? I mean as a species, we’re made to compete. Men compete with each other for women. Women compete with each other for men. We compete to find jobs, careers, higher education, sports and athletics. We compete to be the first for innovations and research so we can slap a patent on it and watch the $$ come in. We compete when we sell a home or buy a car. Heck you compete for a parking spot! That is what I mean is I just don’t feel you can truly achieve the Chitta state of mind that you describe unless you live on a monastery ontop of a snowy mountain in Bangladesh surrounded by goats and sheep.

It’s not just humans. The male alpha lion competes with other male lions until he is too weak, then he is killed and the stronger male takes his place. Male birds of paradise have elaborate rituals to compete for the attention of female birds. Heck even TREES compete to be the tallest so they can rise above the forest canopy to reach the sun. Then the trees proven to have the strongest genes / traits will be the ones to produce offspring. Our whole life is defined by competition, I just don’t see how this can be turned off.

It’s very interesting what you said about youth = sex, middle aged = love, elderly = prayer. I can see it for sure. Although when I was young, I was highly introverted. In fact, I still am as I tend to avoid social functions altogether. This, of course, doesn’t affect my ability to work with people. I just don’t like hanging out with people. So my first sexual experience was a total disaster at a ripe age of 25 or so. But you’re right, it’s about sex even if it’s mostly masturbation.
I also agree with your comments about being middle aged. I think we must be about the same age. It’s about love. I now realize that the more my wife loves me, I mean truly, deeply and genuinely, the more sex I’m going to get. She will even allow me to bypass her own hard limits because she trusts and loves me. At least in our relationship, it is really that simple.

JFF, I thought a lot about growing old. As someone who was basically born Christian, practice one of the (really) popular Christian religions and still practices it today with my wife and children.... I actually do not believe in Heaven and I think the idea is just really stupid. It’s like giving a dog a bone. Be a good Christian boy and you can come to Heaven. It’s cheap, incentive based and nothing short of mind control. I honestly hope that when I die, I’m gone and there’s nothing after that. I can live in the memories of my colleagues, friends, wife and children. I’ve actually never told this to anyone. But now that I’m well into middle age, it doesn’t make a shred of difference if I believe in Heaven or not. It simply wouldn’t change a thing. I’d like to think I would be the same person I am today without the need to dangle that bone in front of me like I’m some kind of dog. The idea of Heaven to me is almost insulting.

JFF you’re losing me on your description of Yoga. I don’t get it. I always thought Yoga was just a form of exercise. You’re speaking of it as a religion. I did read up on Patanjali, the Indian sage that is, not the company. He kind of reminds me of the Indian version of Muslim’s Muhammad.

I’ve never heard the term “I searched myself and found God?”. But again, my expertise is technology. So unless it has an IP address haha....
That is a really interesting story about the traveller, guru and the gemstone. Can you verify that the final sentence is correct:

“I do not want the gemstone, I want what it is that is in you that so freely gave it to me without hesitation.”

If it is, I’m not really comprehending the meaning of this fable.

 

When i read all this stuff it feels weird discussing it in a sex discussion chat room. I can’t imaging what readers think of this.

——————

You stated, “I truly admire it and I wish I had the courage to do it. Especially when it comes to sucking dick. I’m really curious about it. But I honestly think my wife will literally kill me. Or at least she’ll feel completely insulted that she’s not getting it done for me.”

I’m not sure what you are referring to here. My dick in mouth experiences ended when I was around 16 years old. Now it is dildos and yogurt with my wife only.

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Belief is a consequence of social influence. Religion is a belief in something that somebody told a person. It is taught thru books and thought about and conclusions are met. Then people Iive their lives accordingly. Religion teaches the body is a Temple. It also teaches life begins at birth and ends at death.

“Consciousness or awakening” is knowing without being taught. Actually people who speak of this often say, “don’t believe or disbelieve a word I say, but if it awakens something in you then investigate further.”

The human body is the most sophisticated computer on the planet. All inventions stem from it. Most people have never read the user manual and wind up sabotaging themselves then go to a doctor to get fixed.

They know they shouldn’t eat the entire pizza or drink the case of beer but can’t understand why they continuously do. Then they seek help for obesity and alcoholism, Diabetes, etc. The user manual is a constant streaming of information and healing during meditation. This is where the body and mind as tools working for the eternal SELF becomes apparent. One must go inside to know one’s self.

People think all the time. They thinking about the past and the future continuously and need depression and anxiety medications to quiet the mind. They cannot clear the stage of thought by placing all subjects of thought past and future on a shelf. When the mind is seen as a tool it is easy to put it away for a while. Then one can live life as it happens in the present.

Same goes for the body. When it wants something you know it shouldn’t have it becomes easy to tell it to sit down and shut up. This is my version of putting my tools away. Be stronger than your body.

===========
You said, “ Sex uses all of the 5 senses but when one experiences a mind blowing orgasm, I’m going to have to argue that the experience extends well beyond your 5 senses.”

It may seem other dimensional but sexual orgasm pales in comparison to actually experiencing other dimensions. One can watch themselves having sex and enjoying themselves to the fullest and say, “I’m glad my body is having so much enjoyment during it’s stay here but it is not me.” Sex is simply bodily entertainment.

==============
I agree religion can turn a person around in certain situations and if it satisfies them then stick with it. It does have rules and restrictions that go against human nature and one’s proclivities but if it works then it works for them.

There will come a point maybe in a week, a year, 50 or a hundred or a thousand years where a person will finally say, “there has got to be more to human life than birth, school, job, marriage, kids, retirement then death.” Why does it seem like I am on a hamster wheel using all my effort to get nowhere? The more that will be sought is found within.

=============
Yes i am a parent but from childhood I never wanted kids, never wanted to be a father, never really wanted family of any sort. I was refused a vasectomy and tricked into pregnancy by a horribly manipulative and needy female. But it is what it is. I actually told my son I am sorry he was born. He turned out a good person but I made it clear he gets in trouble he is on his own. To me he is just another human being on the planet that I created. I do not have the usual attachment that fathers have. To me that’s a good thing.

I see emotions as a disturbance and usually don’t let myself lower myself to that level. The etymology of that word is from Latin “to disturb”.

The deep emotions of humanity are a trap into believing that your emptiness can be filled with another human or thing but it is all short lived. When we discover our other dimensional self we begin to realize the insignificance of material life. Our role is crucial but living merely by our 5 senses is a never ending trap of deeply felt emotions.

==============
Competition, economics, etc. when it comes to India is lacking. But when we go deeper within we come to realize that this existence is short lived.

7 Years in Tibet:

You admire the man who pushes his way to the top in any walk of life.

While we admire the man who abandons his ego.


Wealth and competition is all ego based.

==================
You said, “Our whole life is defined by competition, I just don’t see how this can be turned off.”

You don’t turn it off. You simply realize the ridiculousness of it and turn away.

==============

You said, “I now realize that the more my wife loves me, I mean truly, deeply and genuinely, the more sex I’m going to get.”

Yes sex does fill an empty space for a while but it is short lived. When we experience this life from another dimension human sex becomes a simple amusement and not a pinnacle. But, what causes human sex to pale in comparison is when you unite your manifest and un-manifest selves during our existence on earth. This is true Yoga.

When one not only understands this but practices this then his emptiness and depression need for sex or any human function is no more and he no longer NEEDS another person to make him feel complete.

==============
You said, “The idea of Heaven to me is almost insulting. “ I agree. But it also enforces in a person that they began at birth and will end at death. That derails their inner quest and searching so they remain in the rat race until they die always seeking some permanent comfort that they can’t achieve. They will never understand how to detach from this material environment and experience human life the way it was designed to be experienced.

=======

Yoga.

Western yoga is all about contortions. It is a bastardized version. Yoga means “to unite” the manifest with the un-manifest. There are positions used for the chakra stimulation but that subject is far off down the road.

========

You said, “I did read up on Patanjali, the Indian sage that is, not the company. He kind of reminds me of the Indian version of Muslim’s Muhammad.”



Actually when these two and all the others like , Buddha, Jesus, and all the other speaking so called deities speak, they all send the same message in different metaphoric stories. On the fundamental surface in religion people praise the speaker and disregard the universal message. Jesus is the best example. If he came today people would hate him. He is a long haired Jew always giving to the less fortunate, he is liberal never hating any other race. I can go on and on. But especially in America. People would most likely reject him as some kind of liberal hippy.



Here is a side note. I bet you did not know that there were actually 16 crucified saviors. There is actually a book by that name.

=========

Yes the statement “I do not want the gemstone, I want what it is that is in you that so freely gave it to me without hesitation.” is correct.



The meaning is that the poor man has no attachments.



“Attachment is the root of all suffering” Buddha.



He has abandoned his ego. The other man who wanted wealth, realized that it would be a wonderful gift to understand how this poor man came to the understanding that the gem stone was of no significance in his life. That is what he wanted.

=========

 

Here is a little story from both prospectives to bring more clarity. The farmer is a spiritualist and relies on the Cosmos (or whatever you want to call it) to take charge of his fate. The towns people are from the religion point of view. Here it is:

The Story of the Chinese Farmer
Once upon a time there was a Chinese farmer whose horse ran away. That evening, all of his neighbors came around to commiserate. They said, “We are so sorry to hear your horse has run away. This is most unfortunate.” The farmer said, “Maybe.” The next day the horse came back bringing seven wild horses with it, and in the evening everybody came back and said, “Oh, isn’t that lucky. What a great turn of events. You now have eight horses!” The farmer again said, “Maybe.”

The following day his son tried to break one of the horses, and while riding it, he was thrown and broke his leg. The neighbors then said, “Oh dear, that’s too bad,” and the farmer responded, “Maybe.” The next day the conscription officers came around to conscript people into the army, and they rejected his son because he had a broken leg. Again all the neighbors came around and said, “Isn’t that great!” Again, he said, “Maybe.”

by Allan Watts

 

You know months ago, when I figured I have time to join one forum, either Literotica or Hip. Well I figured I actually like Hip better because it wasn’t as busy even though Literotica was hotter (more kinky and sexy b/c they allow porn posts). Hell I’m sure glad I chose Hip or I would have never run into you. Case in point, your thread “Guys do you ever wish your wife had a dick”, oh that made both my with and I keel over in laughter. It was SO FUNNY but you know what? Your reasons are perfectly valid and correct. Hella I would suck my wife off to no end if she had a real dick. Question is, could she f*ck herself?

I don’t think there is any danger whatsoever of other users on HF actually reading this message. If it isn’t about “can you f*ck yourself?” or “Have you ever f*cked your SO while both of you are asleep” then no one is going to pay attention to this post. I know the view count on the thread is increasing but no doubt those are bots accessing the data. Bots are computer programs that datamine the internet. While you can run a website with a nobots.txt file but of course one can always program a bot to ignore it.

===========

“Dildos and yogurt with my wife only” too funny my friend! Ok I didn’t know that I admire you for your youthful experiences. I’ve love to have a dick in my mouth one of these days. No joke.

===========

“Be stronger than your body” - this is an interesting concept. Do you mind if I ask how you developed this idea? A TED talk? A book you read? A religion you follow?

Would you call our constant quest to be sexually satisfied comparable to eating an entire pizza or drinking a case of beer? Polishing off that pizza or beer quiets the craving in the same way good sex satisfied our desires … at least for a few hours.

===========

“It may seem other dimensional but sexual orgasm pales in comparison to actually experiencing other dimensions.” Oh man I’m going to have a hard time buying this one, sex feels soo good!

===========

JFF that is really interesting, thanks for sharing that. I think it is great that we live in a free world and we can each live our best lives. This is an incredible privilege that I’m afraid most of us take for granted. And if I may add, not one that we gain by taking a Chitta-like demeanor.

Being a practicing Christian for my entire life and quite involved in our faith community, I know a number of couples whose sole purpose is to propagate. There is a family in our parish who have 9 children. I know the dad quite well, he owns a number of pubs. Ironically a few of them can be labelled as “gentlemen” establishments. For me personally, I’ve never aimed to have a family. The decision to start one was simple. I met and married a woman who wasn’t against having a family. She gave me the impression she would be a good mother. So we started a family. It wasn’t something I specifically aimed for.

You said that you made the decision that you didn’t want to start a family quite young. I mean, people change as their lives change. I don’t think any guy in high school would want a family. Just out of curiosity, did you ever think that you would change your mind? How were you so sure at a young age that you didn’t want a family? Give you an example … at 20, I hated eating spicy foods, dark chocolate and the idea of warm alcohol (ie: red wine) was disgusting. Now, I prefer red wine to cold beer or any other chilled alcohol. Is that why you were refused a vasectomy? You were too young?

===========

“You admire the man who pushes his way to the top in any walk of life”.

Dammit JFF you’re making me think again. I think this is exactly correct. I do admire people who push themselves to higher levels - professionally, academically and especially in my favorite athletics. I’ve never stopped to think but you are right. This is how I see things, but I think it is because I don’t know anything else. I’ll also admit that I do like buying man-toys (not the sex one haha) and subconsciously probably b/c it boosts my ego. Just like when I see a guy driving a cool car, I look with admiration. Since I’m relatively anonymous, I will freely admit that I too like to display my man toys for other guys to admire. Pretty lame? It's an endless vicious circle. Agreed. It’s the American way.

Here is another way of looking at it.

Perhaps we were meant to compete, reach for the stars, push the limits of our own abilities. Look at our bodies, our legs, hands, fingers, core (mid section muscles), eyes and especially brain. Look that way we can communicate, think, do, act, sing, play music, dance, art, science, technology. Us humans are simply the most complex being on this planet and in the known universe by a long shot. No other species on this planet comes close to our abilities. Now mind you, this comes with a major caveat. We also have the ability to rape, kill, maim and we’re the only species that can destory our planet as well. So in this line of reasoning, we’re meant to compete. Capitalism, materialism and competition I feel go hand-in-hand for better or worse. I feel that humans are not meant to sit around and meditate or “Chitta”. If I can try to draw a comparison, humans are also designed to be omnivores. Our guts, digestive track and teeth are clearly designed for an omnivore diet. We have teeth that crush, teeth that cut, teeth that can rip and tear. Unlike sharks that only have teeth that rip. Cattle only have teeth that grind. We have all three. We’re simply not meant to be vegetarians or vegans. In this line of reasoning, “Chitta” is not a natural state for humans. Anyways, just food for thought JFF.

===========

I don’t know, in a way, competing is kind of fun. It doesn’t have to be super serious. Like if you’re swimming lanes, kind of fun if you can beat the guy beside you haha.

===========

“
You said, “I now realize that the more my wife loves me, I mean truly, deeply and genuinely, the more sex I’m going to get.”

Yes sex does fill an empty space for a while but it is short lived. When we experience this life from another dimension human sex becomes a simple amusement and not a pinnacle. But, what causes human sex to pale in comparison is when you unite your manifest and un-manifest selves during our existence on earth. This is true Yoga.
“

I’m sorry JFF, I tried to understand this. I even read it several times, but I don’t understand.in

So yoga is more than just a form of exercise. I had no idea. Can you recommend further reading on this subject? Or a particular author? I’m kind of curious.

===========

Well I’m sure you realize that Jesus was rejected back in his own time as well. The true meaning of his life didn’t come into fruition until hundreds of years after. Unfortunately, people continue to as you say “bastardize” Jesus’ teachings and manipulate them for their own ends. People take lessons from the bible and through many layers of reasoning come to their own conclusions to justify their own means.

Since only about 10 years ago, I’ve realized that there is no direct biblical evidence to support their no-sex-before-marriage law, priests can’t marry, masturbation and “fun” sex is forbidden. The Christian church (the one I believe in) doesn’t offer much in the way of justification for these laws. We’re just supposed to follow them. From what I can see, the reasoning is weak at best. Laws such as priests must practice abstinence and cannot marry are simply cruel. When the church was going through their inappropriate sexual behavior crisis (did I word it too nicely?), I was probably the only one in this planet thinking they should take a close look at their own laws rather than these poor guys that they are persecuting. Of course, I could never take this stance in any other platform rather than in a message forum or else I would be accused of standing behind a sex offender. I’m not, but I feel their inappropriate behavior has deeper roots than just sexual deviance.

“Here is a side note. I bet you did not know that there were actually 16 crucified saviors. There is actually a book by that name.”

I didn’t know that JFF. This is interesting. But are YOU sure that your information is correct? Who knows what really happened back then. I’m sure that 2000 years of history has drastically changed things quite a bit. Also keep in mind that most people couldn’t read or write back then. Also consider the lack of media technology. Combine those two and you’ll see that an accurate recollection of what happened in Jerusalem 2000 years ago is highly unlikely.

JFF I was born into a Christian family. Although I break a lot of rules, especially around the enjoyment of sex, I still consider myself a practicing Christian. I believe strongly in the core values of Christianity. To love and forgive unconditionally, turn the other cheek, be last in line, help every and anyone. Now that is hard to do, but I actually try. The odd times when you have the opportunity to make a difference in someone’s life, no matter how small it is, what an amazing feeling! And even better when that person has no ability to recognize or pay you back. It’s amazing. You mentioned earlier that the best parts of life are experiences you gain outside of your 5 senses, this is another example.

Thanks again for your response JFF. Your response is valued but never expected.

 

JFF I think we were talking about your wife's ass and the button crotch onesie. Just wanted to let you know that my wife finally wore it last night. HOT as F*CK! Had some laughs though, I tried to unbutton it with my teeth as you had mentioned in a prev post on a diff thread but the snaps are kind of tight, its new LOL. Even funnier she wore panties under it because she's mid cycle right now and soaking wet haha

On a tech note, it's kind of hard to reach her goodies around the chest area because of the collar (which is hot) and the sleeves. Also the one we ordered is a bit tight on her which is super sexy but makes it hard to roll above her breasts. First world problems???

Good times!

We have this one:

 

Hey, once I unsnap

Once I unsnap with my teeth and the smelling, licking, teasing etc. begins she slips it over her head. I am usually so busy down there that I don't even know its happening. I love those snaps and have for decades. If a fuck friend didn't own one i bought it for her. I have bought several thru the years. Yummy fucking yummy. After people read this there will be a shortage at the store.hahaha

 

=============
Hey Crazytrain you’re back.

you said:

“Be stronger than your body” - this is an interesting concept. Do you mind if I ask how you developed this idea? A TED talk? A book you read? A religion you follow?



This will age me but here goes anyway. To begin with, I really never fit in. At about 5 years old I learned, like all kids do, those jingles when you are choosing sides for a game. Like: "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe”……



I am from a small township in Pa. and was very very naive. That jingle and many others stated the N-word multiple times. We had one black family in our small town. I didn’t know why but saying that word and hearing it from people like it was the most natural thing to do struck me as very odd and hurtful.



There was something inside me that questioned it but where was I to go to understand why?

Everybody was a racist either knowingly or unknowingly in looking back. It was like existing between two magnets. One was pulling me toward “this is how to act as you are growing up.” The other pull was, “why do you see these people as less than a human being.” But I never got an answer. When I asked I was told you will know when you grow up.



That magnet pull was “preternatural, my energy body (more later on that)” the other magnet was “cultural.” Preternatural or energy body was that little voice that we feel not hear and cultural was my parents and town’s way of living life.



My parents were so into their religion that in the 8th grade a priest punched me in the face and broke my nose. I could not tell my parents because in their view the priest would have won. They died not knowing who broke my nose. That strengthened my preternatural voice that was saying my whole town was fucked up don’t go by everything they say to do, but who can I discuss this with? Nobody..



Then the Viet Nam war came. I didn’t give a shit about it but “the draft” made me wake up and question my next move. After I investigated it I came to a vey strong conclusion that I was not going to shoot people wearing black pajamas because the president said so. And the only people who agreed with me were the hippies down town, and my parents hated them and so did my neighbors. I had no allies. So I went to college and got a deferment. It was either that or Canada or jail.



My point is that there was no beginning in developing this idea as you asked. It was just my somewhat strong “energy body.”



Have you ever seen videos of near death experiences? If so then the dead person on the operating room table with doctors working on him always has his energy body floating above watching it all happen. Sometimes they return and sometimes they don’t. When the person dies the energy goes off to its next whatever (another discussion). In most cases it is reincarnated.



Each human (for sake of this subject) has 3 bodies. The material body, the mind or thinking body and the energy body which keeps us alive. When we die the mind and material bodies die BUT the energy body remains. But this energy body carries with it your

“tendencies” that you have accumulated during your human life time. Those tendencies are felt or known when the new you is born and begins to grow up.



At death all that a man can take with himself is his awareness of his own nature (tendencies). That is your only wealth. And if you are not earning that wealth, you are wasting a tremendous opportunity.



Mine became known to me at about 5 years old. BUT it wasn’t very strong (as I look back) because if it were I would have stood for what I knew was right, my tendencies knew that certain things were blatantly wrong with what I was being taught as a kid. In my next life I will.



This is the same in everyone but for so many people this is totally unknown except for the people that say, “my little voice told me to do this, and it was the right thing to do.” I call this the “energy field self” their little voice. Others say it is their breath. It’s all the same thing with different views.



Now this “energy self or little voice” once it is somewhat understood that it is your life giving SELF you can enhance it thru quiet time or meditation. That’s where it speaks most strongly and clearly, when quiet and alone. Then it becomes more obvious that your other 2 bodies (mind and material body) are simply accessories or tools to assist your SELF body in it’s mission, for lack of a better term.



Knowing this, this is where you can look at that pizza that you want to devour and say to your body, (this is what I say). “Look fucker you can’t have it because it is your hungry self centered fat ass ego that wants it, you are not hungry you just had a piece so walk away and no one gets hurt.” I always make it sound humorous because I am a funny guy. My wife thinks I’m fucking nuts. Maybe I am. hahaha.



Most people it seems allow their material and mind bodies to rule their lives. They may be over weight or have diabetes but they eat anyway. And many people read a religion book and store its written content in their mind body and become convince that this is so true that I want to live my life being a (name a religion.) This is usually based on geographical location where you are born. Mid east Muslim in the west Christian or Jew etc. etc.etc.



Then, the Energy body just keeps you alive but you do not listen to0 the “Chitta”and you go thru life somewhat out of control. On a constant diet or on some kind of depression or anxiety pills because the mind and body are the 2 only culprits that cause a man to suffer.



In physicality everything is transactional, I give this, you give that, I take this, you take that. It’s a world of give and take. It has its usefulness, it has its pleasures and beauty. But transactional world is one thing, transformational world is of a different nature. That is your energy body, outside of the snow dome with a connection to you.



The more you are identified with your physical self the more you will be attached to various other boundaries that you draw. If I say I am of a specific religion I automatically have built in enemies with people of other religions. The more you are identified with your mind and physical self the more you will be attached to various other boundaries that you draw.



There is something within you that does not like boundaries and that is your energy body.

………

I think I better shut up here I might be going a bit further than an answer to your inquire.
=====
by the way I did not say,
“I now realize that the more my wife loves me, I mean truly, deeply and genuinely, the more sex I’m going to get.” That was said by someone else. I don't agree with that statement for myself.

 

Crazytrain,
About the 16 crucified saviors. You asked if the info was accurate?



Who knows what is true and what is not? All of my Guru friends say the same thing, “don’t believe a single word I say, but if something I say resonates within you keep going.”

 

I knew it all along. Finally you copped out. I actually like who you really are.

 

Too funny!

I curious, I have to look into that more.

I see the Christian religions through a really simplified lens.

The core values of being Christian is that they want you to be a nice person. That's it! They want you to love and forgive unconditionally, accept everyone, let others in front of you etc... now that I'm an adult and I can think for myself, I simply don't believe their justification when they make laws like Priests can't marry and need to practice abstinence, or no sex before marriage, fun sex or masturbation is bad etc... I'm especially upset at their position over GBLT relationships. Reasoning has to be layered many times over to make those kinds of justifications. IMHO, it isn't much different than Nazi Germany justifying that "ethnic cleansing" is OK. Remember that Hitler was raised Catholic from a Catholic family. Or closer to home, in the American Civil War song Glory Glory Hallelujah, there is a line that reads "As he (Jesus) does to make men holy, let us die to make men free". See how this justification works? I just don't buy it.

JFF, I've started to participate in another forum. My wife has accepted a slave collar from me, this is something we've been talking about for a while now. Hip isn't the right place for this kind of sex. We are off to explore this new-to-us world of Dominance and submission. We're just getting started, we had our first two sessions this week. I've met someone from another forum who has been mentoring me as my wife's Master. Plus work is getting busy and will remain that way until Dec of this year (I joined Hip Dec of last year when things get slow). I should tell everyone just have a Chitta! LOL

I'm not sure how much I can participate on Hip moving forward, but I plan to keep up our conversation in this thread. So I'll respond to your post shortly. As always, your responses are valued but never expected.

I'll PM you in case you are interested in following me on the other forum. I plan on journaling our first experiences as we enter this world of Dominance and submission. It has been extremely erotic and fun so far!

Take care friend!

 

OK, pm me if you want to that’s fine.

The collar on your wife? interesting and she agrees? Sounds a bit like BDSM. I had a taste of forced orgasm being tied up only one time years ago. I was tied up laying on my back. She jumped on and we did the nasty. With a full yaya she immediately sat on my face and deposited it in my mouth. I hated it and loved it.

But then she did the exact same thing again against my will. What a strange situation. I’ve watched some BDSM stuff on Porn Hub and I enjoy the discussions afterwords with the girls.

==========
I know the Eastern wisdom discussion is a weird discussion for Hip but maybe someone will jump in with their two cents. I understand your Christian view. And yes Hitler was an alter boy in Austria. And it was his Catholic up bringing that actually directed his thoughts toward exterminating the Jews, thus begins WW2.

There is actually a book with his verbatim transcripts “Hitler's Table Talk by Hugh Redwald Trevor-Roper”, of what he said to his cabinet before the war began. He would repeat to his cabinet a phrase that he learned in the Good Friday service when he served as an alter boy.

The phrase contained the statement that Jews were a “perfidious people”. He said numerous times to his cabinet “The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves.”

After the war the phrase “perfidious Jews,” which was read in the Roman Catholic Good Friday liturgy was removed by Pope John XXII from his first Good Friday service in 1959. The Pope felt those words prompted Hitler to exterminate the Jews. He felt guilty so he removed them.

Perfideous ʻPerfidy’ means, “breach of trust, especially treachery or treason.”

================
Your view on christianity is a common one IMO. And in my view it is because His words are taken literally when they were meant to be a metaphoric message. But when you see them metaphorically the belief becomes Gnosticism. Actually there was The Council of Nicea in 325AD that was an argument between the Gnostic view and the literal view. When the government got involved they went with literal because with that it was easier to control the masses of people.