Politics: Are the right becoming irrelevant?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Trud

    No you haven’t, but I’ll play along – show use where these supposed answers are?
     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    6

    And your evidence for this is what?

    I mean for the r could mention the astroturfed and unhinged Tea Party movement that did so much to pull the Republican Party to the right.

    Who are these fighters that are been repelled?

    And with Trump in the white house what is your evidence that it’s the ‘left’ that is ‘batshit crazy’
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Bilby

    There are many types of libertarian going right through the spectrum from left to right – from my experience most people that call themselves libertarians in the US are of the right wing persuasion – Right Wing Libertarians, and there are subset within that from the hard-line Social Darwinist Free market fundamentalists to softer versions of that for example been acceptable to minimum forms of welfare and healthcare.

    You say you are a ‘libertarian and egalitarian’ so it’s hard to know you position. I’d be interested to know what were the seven issues you mention.

    I’d also point out that the Institute of Public Affairs is a right wing think tank pushing the usual neoliberal agenda, tax cuts, privatisation, deregulation and even climate change denial all things that favour wealth to the detriment of everyone else. It is funded to a large extent by large mining, oil and tobacco companies.
     
  4. You're like a blind man declaring he can't see.
     
    6-eyed shaman likes this.
  5. Yes, tax as little as possible, keep government services and regulation minimal and no more intrusive than absolutely necessary to avoid infringement on others' rights, don't be reacting to any kind of alarmists but rely solely on solid evidence, leave charity to religious and civil institutions, stop protecting the people from their own selves, leave people to their lives, liberty, and their pursuits of happiness as the precepts the country was founded on.
     
    Rehab44 likes this.
  6. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

    I like the left, they make me chuckle, still living in the past and trying to look like Lenin :smiley:
     
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Trud

    Well if I was blind I wouldn’t be able to see but I can and I can’t see your supposed answers and I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s noticed you can’t produce them either.

    Why are you sending more effort in lying about answering than just simply answering the questions?
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Trud

    Sorry these come across as slogans not thought through propositions they raise more questions that answers.

    How little would you say was possible? I mean what do you mean by ‘possible’?

    Who do you think gains most from tax cuts?

    What services?

    What regulations?

    What does that mean can you explain?

    But you have already said you ignore people that tell you to do things if you don’t want to them seemingly whatever the evidence.

    What do you mean?

    What does that mean?

    To repeat a question you still not answered - The society and governance set up by the founding fathers allowed for slavery and only around 10% of the population could vote so it was basically slave owning oligarchy - is that what you’d want?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
    MeAgain likes this.
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Rehab

    We have been through that in the Socialism thread before you ran away– were you not reading the posts?

    Socialism Is The Future

    The thing is that the majority of left wingers have moved on, embracing good ideas and rejecting others as they went. I think the left wingers, the socialists, mutualists and anarchists of 1800’s would not recognise todays left wing thinking.

    Many of the rights ideas are from the 18th and 19th century but the thing is that a 18th century supporter of laissez-faire economics would find modern day neoliberalism very familiar. As to Social Darwinist ideas still held my many on the right these have been heavily (if no fatally) criticised as pseudoscientific junk.

    I mean you only have to look at the plethora of ideas coming from the left for dealing with the pressing problems of the 21st century compared to the paucity coming from the right.

    It’s not that they have little or no solutions - and what they have seem designed to make bad situations worse - it’s that many of them don’t even seem to be wanting to find any solutions.

    So all the right seem to have these days is hollow sloganizing and attacks.

    Think about it into relation to this forum when was the last time a right winger presented a thought through solution to any problem?
     
    MeAgain likes this.
  10. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

    Damn you do make me chuckle, I see you now ...manning the barricades, waving your red flag and encouraging the proletariat to attack Macdonalds :smiley:
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Rehab

    LOL What the fuck are you on about – have you got anything of any substance to say or are you just going to troll?
     
  12. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

    Oh my...a sense of humour failure, the expletive wasn’t necessary, you teenagers are so sensitive when us grownups question your mantra, socialism is a failed ideology,, take a look around son, the world with a few exceptions Is capitalist . ...and yes I know..I will be first against the wall come tge revolution :tongueout:
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Rehab

    LOL again did you honestly not read the posts in the socialist thread?

    And thank you for seeing me as young at heart and still open minded rather than the kind of arrogant close minded individuals that calls people ‘son’ LOL

    As I’ve already said before -

    Socialism and socialist have put forward ideas and suggestions for creating a better society there were revolutionary and violent socialist that wanted to impose such ideas but many other lefties that took note of them and adapted them and pushed for them to one degree and another in a democratic and free societies.

    For example if you look at the 10 ideas put forward in Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto many adaptations have been adopted in many countries around the world (including the US) but are not thought these days to be socialist or communist. Such things as progressive taxation and publically funded education, forms of inheritance tax and the regulation of banking and markets and even nationlisations are common now and accepted as normal.


    Basically capitalism failed and needed reforming and many of the policies that reformed society came from socialist ideas.


    It seems to me that the political history of the 20th century (in the industrialised nations) has been to one degree or another about the curtailment of the adverse effects of 19th century exploitative capitalism (some call classical liberalism).

    People in many nations fought for voting rights, social benefits, safer working conditions, progressive taxation, and decent living wages. The result of that movement was that the economic benefits of production were much more distributed. Many people saw their wages grow and in the period between the end of WWII and 1970 many in Europe and the US gain middle class status.

    But from the 70’s onward a new idea was promoted in some of these nations (often referred to as neo-liberalism) it was in many ways opposed to the ‘distributive’ system that had developed. One thing it promoted was economic globalisation, which basically allowed back some aspects of exploitative capitalism by promoting the moving of production to nations that had not developed the more distributive systems away from those nations that had.

    In this way the long fought for distributive system has been undermined in those places where it had developed. Neo-liberals argue that to ‘compete’ in the global market the elements of the distributive system need to be dismantled what is needed they say is deregulation, the cutting of welfare, tax cuts that benefit the rich, lower wages, weak government oversight etc etc.
     
  14. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

    You do go on don't you ? Haranguing the masses seems to part of the socialist DNA, not that many people listen
     
  15. Bilby

    Bilby Freerangertarian Staff Member

    Because a HDD died I do not have to original message, but it went something like this. For a think tank that is so concerned with the cost of welfare, I find it remarkable that they did not want to enter into any discussion on employment participation.
    1. A pro- employment participation culture of all government employees, Federal, State, Local.To give an example the local Environmental Officer once suggested to me that I take the white car in my backyard to the tip. Later on that car kept me employed when another vehicle died on me. My employment is not his problem.
    2. There is consensus that a person with personal transport increases their chances of gaining employment. What constitutes is a roadworthy vehicle should be available to the vehicle owner. I have been directed to someone at the RMS. She told me the RMS is in the process of putting these conditions on the internet but they are not going to be available to the general public. This it would seem to me to be in breach of what it is to be a liberal democracy.
    3. Anti-nit picking legislation. It should be illegal to nitpick the roadworthyness of a vehicle by someone doing a roadworthy or a policeman.
    4. Anti-blackballing legislation. This would mean it would be a criminal offence for an individual who has never employed a potential employee to give an unconsolidated negative reference to a potential employer.
    5.Local councils have the responsibility for collecting and disposing of abandoned cars. When disposing of any such car before being offered for sale, it should be offered for free to any unemployed person who has a current driving licence but no car or job.
     
  16. ---->
    1.1 Self-Ownership

    Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life.

    1.2 Expression and Communication

    We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation, or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

    1.3 Privacy

    [We] advocate individual privacy and government transparency. We are committed to ending government’s practice of spying on everyone. We support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, property, and communications. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records.

    1.4 Personal Relationships

    Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration, or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, promote, license, or restrict personal relationships, regardless of the number of participants. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Until such time as the government stops its illegitimate practice of marriage licensing, such licenses must be granted to all consenting adults who apply.

    1.5 Abortion

    Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

    1.6 Parental Rights

    Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that the rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also protected.

    1.7 Crime and Justice

    Government force must be limited to the protection of the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and property, and governments must never be permitted to violate these rights. Laws should be limited in their application to violations of the rights of others through force or fraud, or to deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. The constitutional rights of the criminally accused, including due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must be preserved. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law. We oppose the prosecutorial practice of “over-charging” in criminal prosecutions so as to avoid jury trials by intimidating defendants into accepting plea bargains.

    1.8 Death Penalty

    We oppose the administration of the death penalty by the state.

    1.9 Self-Defense

    The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. Private property owners should be free to establish their own conditions regarding the presence of personal defense weapons on their own property. We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, registering, or monitoring the ownership, manufacture, or transfer of firearms or ammunition.
     
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    1. I don't know what the RMS is but I do know that storing unused cars on a back lot is a health risk, not to mention unsightly.
    Unused cars can leak oil, gasoline, transmission fluid, coolant and battery acid. They are a home to mice, rats, and mosquitos and can be a safety hazard to children.
    Unused vehicles may be stored in private building, such as a garage.
    Certified automobile recycling facilities (junk yards) must meet certain requirements.
    2. Assuming the RMS is some type of vehicle inspection entity, I agree that roadworthyness requirements should be made public. That information is available on the internet in my area.
    3. In my area an annual inspection is required by a state authorized facility.
    4. I don't know what this means. Illegal to have an opinion of someone in regards to a job?
    5. Any abandoned vehicle offered to the public must be deemed safe and road worthy or the state is opening itself up to a law suit.
    Or the recipient must prove they have a safe and proper storage site for the vehicle while it is being brought up to standard.
    I would assume this would mean the state must inspect the vehicle and document any flaws to be corrected by the recipient who then must provide proof of the improvements before the vehicle is proven roadworthy.
    So instead of the state receiving funds for the recycling of the vehicle, it must pay to have it inspected and any flaws documented.
     
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    1.1 I assume you include reproductive rights for women in this and the right to terminate your own life due to health considerations.
    1.2. Sure. With limitations. Such as the protection of children in the media and the spread of false or fake information such as propaganda.
    1.3. What do you mean by "spying on everyone"? No court ordered surveillance at all. Such as suspected terrorists, mafia or racist groups, foreign agents, internet bot and trolling operations, scam operators, spys, etc?
    1.4. Sure, as long as the term "adult" is identified.
    1.5. Sure as I asked in 1.1, also birth control.
    1.6. Sure. The only problem is defining abuse. Some would argue that withholding healthcare due to religious beliefs is abuse. Some would argue religious indoctrination is abuse, especially certain types.
    1.7. I don't know what this means: "We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law." Are you suggesting laws and facts are to be ignored? For example, someone murders someone else, the facts are indisputable as it was done in a full public setting, caught on tape, and admitted to by the murderer, but the jury thinks the murder was a "good guy" and the victim deserved it as they didn't like him. They can disregard the facts and acquit?
    1.8. Okay.
    1.9. So you support the ownership of any type of weapon that can be imagined such as atomic or conventional bombs or explosives, machine guns, anti aircraft guns, biological weapons, etc? You support the transfer of said weapons to any individual without restrictions regardless of age, or criminal or terrorist activity, etc.? And you support the right of a property owner to defend their property with machine guns, land mines, booby traps, and tanks? And you support private armies, gangs, and the rich and minorities having unlimited access to these weapons? For example, you would have no problem with the black population of a city arming themselves with any weapon(s) they want and forming their own private army. Or any KKK type group doing the same? Such as aquiring tanks and machine guns and patrolling their neighborhoods.

    [​IMG]
     
    soulcompromise likes this.
  19. Bilby

    Bilby Freerangertarian Staff Member

    RMS stands for Roads & Maritime Services.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    I thought maybe Royal Motor System...or something.
     
    Rehab44 likes this.

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