Petrodollar system.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by storch, Mar 6, 2019.

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  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Source?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  2. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I would recommend THE PRIZE by Daniel Yergin. It is a history of the petroleum business around the world. It talks about the way the Brits and Americans took control of Iraq's oil. The Petro-dollar system was forced by America on the Muslim world. That is why most oil producing nations were forced to live under absolute monarchies and dictatorships. That is why Saddam Hussein was put in power, and removed from power. That is why M. Gaddafi was killed. That is why the Shia majority of Bahrain cannot govern its own nation. That is why Kuwait is no longer a part of Iraq. That is why Yemen and Somalia have no stable governments. And that is why Venezuela is under attack today. These oil producing nations are required to play by America's rules.
     
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  3. storch

    storch The compliant

    What are you confused about? That the petrodollar system was put in place? That U.S. dollars are required in order to purchase oil? Or is it the ramifications of that system for oil importing countries? Or is it all three?
     
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    I asked for your source. What's so confusing about that?
     
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  5. storch

    storch The compliant

    I would rather you commit to a position on this issue. That's why I asked you what exactly you're confused about. But I can see that you're not about to do that. Apparently your only problem with this:

    Also, So for decades, foreigners always needed more dollars. The US treasury issued extra dollars. And here it becomes very interesting. There is only one way to make these dollars available abroad. Spend them around the world! The US would purchase goods, services, shares, investments etc. But the US never had to deliver anything in return. Foreigners needed these dollars to buy oil. The purchases were just inscribed on the trade balances and the amounts added to the US foreign debt. For the US, the oil trade works like a fairy credit card. Each time more dollars are needed abroad, this means "free" shopping. Nothing can be done about it.

    . . . is that I didn't provide a source.

    So: $ Collapse in Iran

    Now what part do you disagree with?
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    Also:

    Oil can be bought from OPEC only if you have dollars. Non-oil producing countries such as most underdeveloped countries and Japan, first have to sell their goods to earn dollar with which they can purchase oil. If they cannot earn enough dollars, then they have to borrow dollars from the WB/IMF, which have to be paid back, with interest, in dollars. This creates a great demand for dollars outside the U.S. In contrast, the U.S. only has to print dollar bills in exchange for goods. Even for its own oil imports, the U.S. can print dollar bills without exporting or selling its goods. For instance, in 2003 the current U.S. account deficit and external debt has been running at more than $500 billion. Put in simple terms, the U.S. will receive $500 billion more in goods and services from other countries than it will provide them. The imported goods are paid for by printing dollar bills, i.e., “fiat” dollars.

    The Invasion of Iraq: Dollar vs Euro Re-denominating Iraqi oil in U. S. dollars, instead of the euro
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    Also:

    CALGARY – When Prime Minister Stephen Harper, standing alongside Chinese Premier Li Keqiang in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People, announced last month that a Renminbi currency trading hub would soon open in Canada, Calgary’s oil and gas sector was paying particular attention.
    “I think it probably brings us to a level playing field with the U.S., because right now everything goes through U.S. dollars,” said Greg Stringham, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers vice-president of oil sands and markets.


    The Chinese currency hub, the first of its kind in either North or South America, will allow Canadian companies to deal directly in Renminbi – a move that is expected to save importers and exporters billions of dollars in transaction fees, especially in foreign exchange transactions in and out of the U.S. dollar, while also eliminating an extra layer of uncertainty in the foreign exchange market. For the first time, the Canadian dollar will be valued directly against China’s currency.

    The hub would also allow Canadian energy companies to number among the very few producers in the world to sell oil in a currency other than the U.S. dollar. In August, Russia’s Gazprom Neft began accepting Rubles or Chinese currency for oil sales off its eastern coast. Russian president Vladmir Putin has recently described the international oil trade as the “dollar dictatorship.

    As University of Calgary Haskayne School of Business professor Bob Schulz explained, virtually all of the oil trading around the world is denominated in U.S. dollars, thanks in large part to “petro-dollar” agreements struck in the 1970s between the U.S. and OPEC countries like Saudi Arabia. The U.S. agreed to provide the Saudis and other countries protection in exchange for OPEC members selling their oil in U.S. dollars.

    ‘Level playing field’: Why a Chinese currency hub will help boost Canada’s oil sector
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  6. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    The Source was a great novel by James Michener who lived in Greeley, Colorado, about 40 miles east of my place in Fort Collins. He was a history prof and wrote several books including Centennial about the history of Colorado, when the state had its hundredth birthday in 1976. The Source was about the Holy Land. It was published about the same time or soon after Daniel Yergin put out The Prize. The cool thing about Michener is that he's known for saying, " If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and avoid the people, you better stay at home." Boy that sure applies today!
     
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  7. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Okie is a good dude. I think this is just a simple misunderstanding. He does a good job of citing his own references. Let's take a deep breath.
     
  8. storch

    storch The compliant

    You described the petrodollar system quite well in your previous post. Others, however, are of the mind that if something has not been reported on the CBS Evening News, it must be a conspiracy theory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  9. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Thank you for the flowers. I do know Okie and he really is one of the good ones on here. He has more college degrees than Carter's got peanuts; moreover, his Dad didn't bribe the school like some rich folks from back east.
     
  10. storch

    storch The compliant

    You're welcome. You play your cards rights, and there might be some dinner and dancing in your near future, too. And after that . . . :smile:
     
  11. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I would love that! Fifty years ago I used to go to a square dance at the Granger's Hall and listen to Betty Lou and the Gay Notes! I just love a good square dance. Afterwards we must go to the truck-stop and get some pinto beans and corn bread and some corn dodgers! And we gotta invite Okie too!
     
  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Thanks, but only if we don't talk politics. Otherwise, Storch and I might not come out together alive.
     
  13. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Okie my precious Brother in Hippiness, I endeavor to attain a state of peaceful coexistence for all humans, including the American ones. I suggested a square dance because my life experience tells me there is a high likelihood of meeting a healthy beautiful country gal from the Wheat fields who seeks to meet a feisty gent like me from the rugged mountains of Cappadocia. The three of us could drink up a gallon of coffee after dinner then go to the dance floor to find the ones with big ole boobies!
     
  14. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Sounds good, so long as we leave guns, god and conspiracy theories out of it. But my wife would want to come along too, and she'd take a dim view of the big boobied country gals! Should we bring brother Balbus along, too.
     
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  15. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Ok, Ok, no gods or guns … I'll go along with that. A little conspiracy talk might be OK … just a smidgen. Your wife can come along too if she so desires as I always stand for human equality. Concerning the big Boobies, I shall not capitulate one particle, as I am a D.I.V.O.R.C.E.E. (from a country song) ... And Balbus is welcome, I never knew which gender he or she belonged to or subscribed to. Balbus writes well and with eloquence. I just love being an aging Hippy.
     
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  16. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    New

    I think you must have missed this so I ask again in what way do left wingers do ‘exactly’ the same thing?
     
  17. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    I’ve covered some of this above and in the thread Conspiracy or lobbying

    Conspiracy or lobbying?

    The thing is you don’t have to accept without question what is said by think tanks and slick advertisers.

    If you have a political think tank that is founded by wealthy people and funded by wealthy people and pump’s out ‘reports’ that promote the interests of the wealthy is it natural to just accept those ‘reports’ as unbiased?

    If such a body promotes say the benefits of tax cuts and the cutting of public assistance to pay for it – should people be sceptical or accepting?

    Such reports are often cited even on these forums as if they were peer reviewed works of objective academia and not as what they really are - the work of political hacks, which often as not fall apart when looked at.

    We have all seen such ‘reports’ they usually have some snappy title like ‘How we spend nearly $1 trillion a year fighting poverty – and fail’. With a conclusions that say that the best way to fight poverty is to cut of taxes and regulations. Would it be best to look at it critically or just disseminate it with little or no questions been asked?

    Well I find that often such reports are picked up by the media, especially the right wing media and treated as if they were a ‘truth’ and passed on to people as such who then cite them in arguments as ‘proof’ to back up what they already think is correct.

    Study: More Than Half a Trillion Dollars Spent on Welfare But Poverty Levels Unaffect
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  18. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Okie and storm

    Balbus don’t dance – but his wife says she’s happy to take part - while he sits in the corner nursing a pint and pretending not to look at all those boobies.

    LOL
     
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  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Would that include the paleolibertarian Mises Institute that promotes the petrodollar war theory along with defense of the Confederacy during the civil war and FDR's complicity in the Pearl Harbor Attack during World War II? Sources matter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Okie

    Let me guess and I’m doing this blind but having read some of the Mises Institute’s stuff

    The defence of the Confederacy was based on ‘states’ rights?

    FDR's complicity in the Pearl Harbor Attack during World War II – to end US isolationism or hide failures of new deal?

    *

    Conspiracy theories can be fun and are ok if they are treated like sci-fi or fantasy, not a something real but as fictions that can often give an insight into the society (or section of it) in which they have been made up.
     
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