Men and women being “equal”

Discussion in 'Democracy' started by WomenPower, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    It's a characteristic YOU assigned. "Attack the man, not the idea" - that's what ad hominem is.
    "Don't listen to him, he's an X". It's a dismissal of ideas presented without actually considering them. A sleight of hand.
     
  2. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Wow. You've really been duped by the media backed large corporation interest and political quest for control. It's kinda laughable to see people so gullible to the campaign except that they're becoming increasing in numbers. Pretty soon they'll be chanting in the streets, all in unison, "take my freedom to choose, assign me a job and home, and take care of my basic needs".

    But this country was founded to escape that nonsense. Your ancestors made the dangerous trek because they wanted to take chances and either make it or go bust on their own. And now you want to circle back to living a life you're directed to live, free of choice and risk to succeed or fail by your own doing. Protection and control of big government? The few in the ruling class way wealthier than the masses who must submit? Why would you want to wish this on yourself and fellow Americans? You do realize you're not going to end up a member of the ruling class, living a life of luxury bossing others around, don't you? What would you have to gain by having less wealth and your life controlled? Less apprehension over making your own choices? Maybe you really want this or maybe you've been brainwashed ... either way it's detrimental to the American way of life established under the premise of freedom.
     
  3. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    This is not unique to this situation though.

    The media does arguably put spin on certain reporting.

    One example that I find rather distasteful is the jingoistic participation in the anti-China or anti-Russia campaigns. Xinxiang aside (where there are concentration camps and genocide) I feel like we need to extend a hand and ready to shake with China; on the condition that they divest as it were from the concentration camp effort that supposedly addresses the extremist threat of the Uighur Muslim people.

    Similarly, I think the foreign policy with Russia should be extremely diplomatic. We should shake and hug and celebrate on the condition that they will monitor hacking and cyber attacks - with our involvement and participation of course.
     
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Trudge

    But I’m not the only one that has noticed you don’t address the criticisms of your views.

    *

    That it is you that is simply repeating the distrust and even fear of female independence that lingers especially in conservative groups without question or thought.

    I mean you are pushing the same Social Darwinist crap that wealth has been sponsoring for years and then you have the audacity to say others are gullible and brainwashed when it is so clearly yourself - it would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic

    Don’t you see that this right-wing propaganda you have fallen for is what keeps you in your place

    I mean you are just repeating the ant-left wing slogans they what you to chant

    Left wingers want to take away freedom – (the freedom from want and undue hardships)

    You have to make it on your own (not come together to fight to make things better for everyone)

    Government that helps the few is good – (government that helps the majority is bad)

    *

    I mean what the fuck is the American way of life exactly?

    I mean if you look at history it seems to be the exploitation of the few of the many

    *

    Think about this you never seem able to defend your views form criticisms – have you ever stopped and asked yourself what that is so? Have you never wondered if you can’t defend them if they are any good? Have you ever questioned the stuff you never can defend?
     
  5. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Sure. We're world citizens, all of us. We're all in it together, so to speak. But we can't forget that simpler minded citizens who just want to thrive and adventure are of a different mind than control hungry political leader types. When we talk about dealing with China and Russia, etc, we're not talking about going to the people, we're talking about dealing with the leaders they have over them. It's a completely different dynamic. Those people want to control stuff to their benefit. They're not interested in a kumbaya style sharing of control and resources with the rest of the world. It's human motivation. They might pretend to be in order to get one over on the weak and trusting. Smart people keep them in line by not surrendering their advantage. If people were all good in their hearts we could all just pass the bowl and not have to be wary that someone's gonna pick our pockets. But we know better than that so it's an art of give and take to make the best of the hands we're dealt.

    You think the leaders of another country are going to capitulate to demands of other countries' leaders simply because they extend their hand??? If that could work then we'd already be living in a harmonious world where nobody has a care. Look at history and human motivation. There's a reason for diplomacy not attempted domination.

    We were on the verge of making an ally of Russia. Those things take time and effort. We were positioning ourselves to be more influential and equitable with China. Some complex issues had to be ironed out though. We may be headed back toward increased hostility, or misplaced trust which could lead to getting stabbed in the back, only time will tell. But I agree, we should use a system to work toward mutually beneficial scenarios.
     
  6. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    There's no defense for the stuff you come up with, and I've questioned it plenty in direct language. So of course I have. But it's a waste of time because you never capitulate on anything, never face the reality of an opposing viewpoint, never make an attempt to understand, but instead die on your hill of some kind of false utopia completely neglecting human motivation.
     
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Trudge

    LOL – and again I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s noticed you still don’t address the criticisms of your views.

    Look I’m really sorry you have nothing worthy to give but riling and ranting against me will not help you – why not ask yourself - why can’t you defend your ideas rather than just saying you can’t.

    You say it would be a waste of time – but how do you know when you never try?

    Pretending you could doesn’t work and claiming you have doesn’t either because you know I’ll ask where and you are going to be unable to say.

    So why not actually do it - actually look at the criticisms of your views and address them.
     
  8. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    I want to reply.

    So, I don't think that demanding anything of either one; China or Russia, is going to a) show them anything but our cowardice as a people, or b) accomplish anything at all. What that will do is only serve to escalate tension on the one hand, and perpetuate the perception in the minds of Americans that these two are our enemies.

    That is the problem. All the saber-rattling and posturing is exacerbating everything. That isn't going to solve anything. You don't "show" Russia or China anything by way of strength. They know we have GREAT strength. They don't need a lesson in that. What they do need is to see that despite allllll our imperialism, we're perfectly capable of diplomacy. Capitalism hasn't shrunk our brain, we're not heathens, and in fact we're superior to other ideologies!


    Absolutely.
    Their leaders are indeed powerful.
    They need motivation to get there.
     
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Soul

    Of course but can we think about getting back to te subject of the thread?

    Regards

    Balbus
     
  10. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Agreed. However, back to the reality of human motivation, the only motivation to "get there" would be a threat of getting their butts kicked.

    "Walk softly, but carry a big stick"
     
  11. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Back to men and women being "equal". That'll happen when men start birthing children. Until then, men will be unable to be a woman's equal.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Trudge

    Sorry can you please explain what you think is equality in law?

    For example, if the men at a company get more pay for doing the same job as the women is that is in your view fair and equitable because women can give birth?
     
  13. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Exactly. Equal treatment under the law is not the same as being equal.
     
  14. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    That's another distraction. Are two different men paid the same for doing the same job? There's where your assumptions break down.

    Also you're conflating equal treatment under the law with equal pay for equal productivity.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Trudge

    I brought up what i meant by equality in my very first post in this thread - that to me the definition of equality on this issue was about in law and pay and treatment?

    So i was clear from the beginning but I’m still not really sure what you mean by equality and I’m also not sure why you think my question is a distraction - it seems simple enough, can you answer it?

    If the men at a company get more pay for doing the same job as the women is that, is in your view, fair and equitable?
     
  16. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    If the women at a company get more pay for doing the same job as the men, then is that, is in your view, fair and equitable?

    If you've ever worked at a company you would already know that people doing the same job aren't paid the same. There's grade, time in grade, negotiated starting pay etc. None of that is a factor of the gender of the employees.

    Life ain't fair, anyway. Never was, never will be.
     
  17. Alonso376

    Alonso376 Members

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    All for equality and equal pay in the workplace for men and women doing same job and yes it isn't fair in sports. But when the mens sport is filling a 60,000 seat stadium and watched by millions on TV every game and the exact equivalent women's sport match has a crowd of 5000 and few hundred thousand watching on TV or live stream then the fact of the matter is that the money isn't there to pay them as much. It is getting better at a fast rate in recent years and women's sport is becoming more popular. And I don't think this day and age that it is a male dominance factor as the vast majority of the paying fans watching the men are women.
    As for women being allowed to go topless in public like men, it was women feminists who put a stop to page 3 topless models and put a stop to women being grid girls in formula 1 but then fight for the right to breastfeed in public. Mixed signals. Been on many holidays with topless women around the pool and it's normal. Too many people get offended by things these days and think that their opinion is the correct opinion. Each to their own.
     
  18. Biden'sVagina

    Biden'sVagina Members

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    ooh bruh dramaaa
     
  19. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Trudge

    And again I notice you are still not answering the questions put to you

    LOL what do you think I’m going to say?

    You seem to think I’m only about giving women equality; thing is if any person is doing the same job and not getting the same pay then that isn’t fair and equitable.

    But where gender or race is a factor then it would not be fair or equitable.

    Were there are grades and if someone is on the same grade as someone else and getting paid differently due to them been of a different gender or race then it would seem to be unequitable.

    We have been through your ‘Life ain't fair’ philosophy before it didn’t stand up very well last time – do you really want that battle again?

    Race, class and above all power.

    I mean I’d ask the same question again - Why would you not want a fairer society?
     
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Alonso

    I’d point to my post on women’s sports above (post 19) and how often it was the male establishment that actually worked to scupper it. The idea that sport in general but especially active sport was quite unsuitable for females and should not be encouraged was very prevenient amongst men until relatively recently. I’ll repeat what i said about sport at my secondary school where girls were discouraged from ‘vigorous’ sport at the school on the grounds it might affect their ability to have children later in life and that was only in the 1970’s.

    I think there is a difference between the sexualisation of women (topless page 3 girls and scantily dressed grid girls) and the unsexual act of breastfeeding, I don’t know any man that would go ‘COR’ at a woman breastfeeding. Same with going topless on the beach to get a good tan and posing usually at the behest of men for the express purpose of being ogled by men, which makes at least some type of men think that is what women are only good for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  21. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

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    WE in this context excludes YOU because you are a Republican and Trump supporter.
     

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