Brexit: the rotting corpse of a unicorn

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Mal

    That sure seems like a rant to me – I mean take out the bit by the right wing Brexiteer (and conspiracy theorist) Ambrose Evans-Pritchard* in the right-wing newspaper the Daily Telegraph and what was your actual contribution.

    Wow your eloquence is overwhelming

    Basically you are saying you haven’t a clue what to say.

    And I’m not surprised since there are no benefits to Brexit what-so-ever everything is worse off than what we had - and you know it.

    Well, I know why I don’t take you seriously because you are a known liar and you never actually have any answers because you haven’t a clue what you are talking about.

    However, if you did stop lying and actually did some research and got educated about the subjects you say you support – I would take you seriously but until then you are just one of the deluded sheep that got conned into voting against their own and their countries interests.

    So I ask again – What has the UK gained that is better out of Brexit so far than what we already had as a member of the EU?


    *I always think it funny that Brexit supporters often speak of out against ‘elites’ but then go all forelock tugging over elitists with names like Ambrose Evans-Pritchard or Jacob Rees-Mogg or Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - people that wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire.

     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Zen

    I would add to the Kansas example (see above) - that what Brexit has produced so far is the break up of the UK – I said in it that Kansans could trade within Kansas freely – well in the Brexit UK that isn’t true.

    The United Kingdom is made up of four nations – Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England – well now Northern Ireland actually remains in the EU single market but the English National Party (Tories) have pulled the rest of the UK out of it.

    So we now have an internal trade custom barrier within the UK between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

    Oh and one of the UK’s overseas territories – Gibraltar – is joining the Schengen area a EU free movement area that the UK Brexiteers never allowed the UK to join as been a step ‘too far’ toward EU integration.

    So because of Brexit we have one part of the UK in many senses outside of the rest of the UK and one overseas territory even closer to EU integration.

    Back to the Kansas that has left the US – so you’d have a situation where the majority of the state was not part of the US but that one District was still part of the customs union with the 49 US states and one county had free movement of people with those 49 US states

    I hope this goes a little way to explain the insanity that the Brexit process has produced for the UK.
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

  4. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    I was listening to someone on the radio the other day and they where talking about what was happening in the US and saying that what was needed was more truth.

    And I thought it was the same for Trumpism in the US as it is for Brexit in the UK.

    The whole Brexit argument was built on lies that becomes clear with even the slightest examination it stands up to scrutiny about as well as a Q anon conspiracy theory and that becomes obvious whenever it is discussed in any realistic way (outside of the Brexit bubble)

    (see here for proof Brexit)

    But the very wealthy people and institutions that pushed Brexit had no regard for truth or facts or integrity and they found and supported political grifters that were willing tools (just as in the US)

    Brexit was and is insanity ad nobody that still supports if can defend it without either lying or putting judgement off to some future date with ‘wait and see’ the latter tactic becoming less useful as we did wait and we can now see that what they said before was absolute crap.

    How long can if be before the blinkers fall from the Brexit supporters’ eyes and realise the lies they were told and begin to grasp the truth?
     
  5. Mallyboppa

    Mallyboppa Nails Mc Fugger

    What Makes what I posted a Rant When every single thing You post about Brexit is nothing More than a rant ?
    Even the Title of your Thread here Is the sad Whining Of someone who has Completely lost the plot !

    Yes I answered Your Question in another thread (That was nothing to do with Brexit ) But YOU were the one that brought it up in the other thread not I !!

    I no longer Care that you Don't get it, Try to understand that, Its an idiotic Obsession you have and I want no part of it
    Good Luck :)
     
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Mal

    I think it is to do with substance – you don’t post to seek knowledge (you seem to think you know it all) and you don’t post to impart knowledge (as you clearly don’t have a clue).

    Since I’ve known you (say five years here) most of your posts have been about telling anyone that doesn’t have the same views as you that they are wrong, followed by an excuse as to why you will not explain why you think they are wrong.

    Oh, with the occasional lie thrown in for good measure.

    A lie like claiming you have answered a question when you haven’t.

    But that is the thing – have I lost the pot – I mean you (along with all the other leavers) are the one that seems completely unable to explain how Brexit has improved things for the UK?
     
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    So let’s look at the extreme tory Brexit that this English Nationalist government calls a trade deal –

    All that time lying. blustering and political posturing and what do the Brexiteers do - agree to a deal that basically gives the EU what it needed or wanted for little to nothing in return.

    Leavers said we would get a great deal because we bought so much stuff from the EU, well we still can its just that now its going to be harder (for some a lot harder) for us to sell them things especially in services – how is that a good deal for the UK?

    How is having an internal customs border within the UK a good thing for the UK?

    As to ‘getting Brexit done’ – they have admitted that Brexit negotiations will continue and that other Brexit stuff has to be reviewed and adapted every year and yet other Brexit stuff will be open to arbitration and so on….all ensuring (as warned by remoaners) that Brexit will carry on until we re-join the EU.
     
  8. So, still waiting for something to happen
     
  9. UK GDP bounced back by 16% last quarter by the way
     
  10. WOLF ANGEL

    WOLF ANGEL Senior Member - A Fool on the Hill HipForums Supporter

    Br-exit was not something that I wanted/voted for - However, .. a Democratic election saw a decision made.
    As was the vote of an electorate that voted for the Goverment that I did not, it is something to be (reluctantly) accepted
    Fighting to begin the progress of objection has to be structured and considered, though Covid has put a misty barrier of confusion that delays this.
    Rather than a rotting unicorn, the promises made and delivery of viable Brexit policy, are more akin to that of it's legendry myth.
    IMO
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Wolf

    It wasn’t an election – it was a non-binding referendum – and if it had been a binding referendum (legal) it has been argued that the electoral commission (that oversees legal elections in the UK) would most likely have overturned the result because of the high level of fraud that happened in it.

    And even many of those that campaigned to leave thought there should be another referendum to ratify any deal (once a deal was made)

    The problem with that was that the people pushing Brexit soon realised that any type of deal would be worse than the one we had and many people after the referendum were realising that they might have not voted wisely (many did a protest vote not a real one and only after asked what they had actually voted against - remember the second-most popular question googled in the UK after the vote was 'What is the EU?').

    The Rejoiner movement has in many ways already begun having just moved over from the remainer one.

    However it should be remembered that the leaver movement had a huge amount of backing (it was not a grass roots but an astro turfed movement) with a lot of money (much of it dark money) backing it and a great deal of the establishment and elites pushing for it – well over half the wealth owned media pushed hard to demonise and ridicule the EU for some 30 years before the referendum and if you look at those pushing for it they are mainly either of the elite or backed by them ( eg Jacob Reees-Mogg, Nigal Farage, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Dominic Cummings who is married into the English aristocracy)

    While the Rejoiner movement will actually be a grassroots movement it will have to deal with all that power and influence against it so it’s going to be a hard journey.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Please Remember

    There were a number of stages to the Brexit unicorn argument –

    1) The Unicorn : lots of promises about how wonderful a post Brexit UK would be – we would be able to have our cake and eat it too, we held all the cards and so would get everything we wanted, countries around the world would be knocking down our door to do fantastic deals, wonderful deals, far better deals than we had now, Britannia would once again enter a golden age and of course there would be 350 million quid for the NHS a week.

    But in the campaign although all promised the same unicorn there were many different visons of Brexit and many were contradictory.

    2) The Unicorn is unwell : This began almost immediately after the referendum when many started pulling back on the promises made during the campaign, for example the money for the NHS was just a possibility of what could be done not what necessarily would be done. Others began hedging their bets saying there could be adverse effects in the short term but in say 20, 30 50 years we might just see the beneficial effects of Brexit. And since there were many different visons of Brexit with many been contradictory to each other there was a lot of squabbling over what Brexit even meant.

    Brexit means Brexit meant nothing when no Brexit could be defined.

    3) The unicorn is dead : All the Brexit promises of the referendum are gone. The withdrawal agreement was rubbish and bad for UK interests and even those that voted for it said it was rubbish and bad for UK interests and wanted to break international law to change it (before giving in and allowing it) – the very last minute very thin and harsh trade deal is also rubbish and bad for UK interests, it protects the EU from many of the adverse effects of Brexit and even favours the EU in the medium and long term but it grants few if any benefits to the UK and as warned is very, very much worse than the deal we had as a member of the EU.

    That is how things have stood but now seem to be entering a fourth stage

    4) Trying to resurrect the unicorn : the right wing media that pushed for Brexit have gone into overtime trying to spin upward anything positive about Brexit usually it’s of the negative variety – no chaos at the ports the day after the transition period ended proved Brexit is good, the fact that there are no food riots is proof Brexit is good, and beyond that they try to ignore anything bad while trying to distract. At the same time as the cracks appear the Brexiteers are beginning to turn on each other – if only they (their argument goes) had been in charge they could have putted the magical unicorn form the hat, things are and will go wrong only because they were not.
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    It also has to be remembered that in the UK the media is either owned or led by right wing people and institutions that promoted Brexit and are masters of seeing the splinters in their opponents eyes while ignoring the plank in their own.

    They exaggerate or make up things about those they wish to destroy while hiding, spinning or ignoring the very real deficiencies of those they wish to support.

    For years they made up things about the EU wen more often than not the real problem was the right wing policies they supported, many people came to think that the problems with schooling, public services and healthcare were the fault of the EU and immigrants (because the right wing media told them that) when the real reasons were right wing policies of austerity (because the right wing media tried to hide all evidence of that).

    Do you think any of these right wing people and institutions that promoted Brexit so strangly are going to admit its deficiencies or its adverse effects?

    Many people that supported Brexit are the same, many of those hoodwinked leavers are claiming that because the sky has not fallen and Britain hasn’t sunken into the sea then everything is fine and wonderful

    But notice none of them are able to say how Brexit has benefited the vast majority of people living in the UK.

    NOT ONE
     
  14. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

    Where do I start.

    How about Grenfel tower.......Where architects, designers and surveyors from eastern Europe could legally build a bonfire in the centre of London.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Wil

    You think that been part of the EU was the reason for the Grenfell tower fire happening

    So you are completely letting off the hook the right wing council that ok’ed the work (while possibly knowing the product been used was substandard for the job) and the American company that sold the cladding (which they knew was substandard for the job) for example?

    NO that for you the number one reason and total justification for Brexit is somehow that those deaths were the fault of EU membership – do you know how mad that sounds and how disrespectful – using these deaths for some dubious justifcation for your political stance seems rather sickening

    Complex chain of companies that worked on Grenfell Tower raises oversight concerns

    Can you name these Eastern Europe companies and people?

    I don’t seem able to find them - there are English companies and politicians, French companies and American companies but not Eastern Europe ones.

    Read this from the New York Time

    interviews with tenants, industry executives and fire safety engineers point to a gross failure of government oversight, a refusal to heed warnings from inside Britain and around the world and a drive by successive governments from both major political parties to free businesses from the burden of safety regulations. Promising to cut “red tape,” business-friendly politicians evidently judged that cost concerns outweighed the risks of allowing flammable materials to be used in facades. Builders in Britain were allowed to wrap residential apartment towers — perhaps several hundred of them — from top to bottom in highly flammable materials, a practice forbidden in the United States and many European countries. And companies did not hesitate to supply the British market. The facade, installed last year at Grenfell Tower, in panels known as cladding and sold as Reynobond PE, consisted of two sheets of aluminum that sandwich a combustible core of polyethylene. It was produced by the American manufacturing giant Alcoa, which was renamed Arconic after a reorganization last year. Arconic has marketed the flammable facades in Britain for years, even as it has adjusted its pitch elsewhere. In other European countries, Arconic’s sales materials explicitly instructed that “as soon as the building is higher than the firefighters’ ladders, it has to be conceived with an incombustible material.” An Arconic website for British customers said only that such use “depends on local building codes.” Why Grenfell Tower Burned: Regulators Put Cost Before Safety (Published 2017)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Wiljane’s post is to me a perfect example of how twisted the argument has become – the Glenfell Tower disaster has nothing to do with EU membership - but to leavers it seems that everything bad that has happened anywhere in the UK comes back to the EU bogyman, that if only we had not been in the EU the bad things wouldn’t have happened.

    The Express tried to blame the Grenfell fire on the EU, but there's a problem | The Canary

    But as to the supposed actually benefits talked about by those pushing Brexit for years past there is nothing - not one of them or the leavers that got conned by it can point to any real world benefit from this mad policy so of course they have to lie.
     
  17. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter


    Because the scumbag 'nasty party' cheapskate councillors on the Lambeth & Kensington Council tried to do the cladding at the lowest possible estimate and ignored the H & S issues !!!
     
  18. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Just to say that it was the - Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council - Lambeth council i believe is Labour controlled
     
  19. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter


    Yes you're right matey, my apologies.
     
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    VI

    We all make that kind of mistake when posting no need to apologies

    The thing is that the right wing led Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council was very much the problem in the Grenfell tragedy it’s mainly a rich borough with a less fortunate enclave of the less fortunate that the council seemed/seems to think of second class scum.
     

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