The Great Philosophical Discussion Continues

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by ThriceHistMorphs, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. ThriceHistMorphs

    ThriceHistMorphs Members

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  2. JPN2

    JPN2 Supporters HipForums Supporter

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    What is the subject?
     
  3. ThriceHistMorphs

    ThriceHistMorphs Members

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    Click the link
     
  4. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    the only thing impossible is for humans to have the slightest idea what they're talking about.
    even that's not impossible, just exceedingly unlikely.
    and that goes for any book ever written that doesn't begin and end with tangible mechanical things,
    and what can be observed in nature.

    being creative is good though. that's all that makes us anything.
    creative and considerate and we can all find gratification in living,
    that's how we create an experiential world in which we all can.

    nature is there and technology is what we make,
    those are the two things that are real,
    society exists between us, but it takes place in our minds,
    and how considerate we are or aren't, that's the whole thing,
    that and of course we can't shun logic and expect not to do more harm then good by doing so.
     
  5. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    For those who are too lazy to click the link---the debate boils down to the old mind-body debate of philosophy----that is the reality of physicality versus the reality of nonphysicality, or the spirit versus the physical.

    Consider Liebniz' Principle of Sufficient Reason: For every entity X, if X exists, then there is a sufficient reason for why X exists. (We could replace entity with event or anything else.)

    In other words, everything has a sufficient reason to be. Liebniz took this reasoning down its path to state that for every 'why' that we ask, there is another deeper question why. For example, Why do I have sex with hookers? Because they are hot. Why are they hot? Because they dress sexy and wear tight skirts with fishnet stockings. Why is that hot? Because its sexy and dirty and reminds me of dirty things I did in the past. Why does it remind you of that? Ok! Because in the 6th Grade Suzy kissed me but wouldn't let me stick my hand up her shirt! Are you happy now? I tried and tried! Are you happy?! That's why I have sex with hookers! OK?! Now stop asking me!!

    Ok seriously though, every chain of questioning why can lead us down to a deeper question of why, then a deeper one, and then a deeper one---until at some point we reach that final WHY to which the answer is the Absolute. If there is no final answer of why, Liebniz concluded that the why's would continue ad infinitum and life and existence is absurd.

    The problem with the modern world is that we have denied that there is any final why, and have stopped looking. This is the Postmodern Crisis, and man's current spiral into nihilism. Many have tried to show that a strictly physical world can have meaning, but in the end it is only superficial. Even science, in the early years of the Modern Age, and after Kant, was expected to find all the answers and to then give life meaning, but that instead it gave us the atom bomb and 2 very destructive world wars (yes---it gave us many good things as well, and our lives are better for it). But today's world has no deep meaning to be, no ultimate Why.

    But what science after Kant did not expect, is that science would eventually bring us back to a metaphysical reality. In fact this is so crazy that most scientists still haven't accepted it, and, rather than face the ontology of what they are saying, just stick to the math. But Quantum Mechanics has demonstrated that reality rises from a sea of Energy/Being that is absolutely everywhere throughout the whole universe covering every time from beginning to end, and that somehow every particle and subatomic particle that creates physicality in the universe emerges from this soup, just long enought to have a position before disappearing back into that soup of Energy/Being. From our perspective of reality, it appears that each of these particles and subatomic particles are in motion; that they have a vector. But they cannot because this wave/field of Energy/Being already exists everywhere and in every time, there is no place for it to move to, no place to come from, and there is no place it is not, no time that it is not. What we call a wave is not even a wave. But it appears so much like a wave that we even have a physical constant that mathematically demonstrates how energy locally equates to frequency. But frequency requires movement and time, as if the energy was not already there in this time and that time, this place and that place... A bigger problem is that these particles and subatomic particles could appear anywhere in the universe at any time in the universe--and they do, but enough of them appear where they are supposed to so that in each new moment, you have a computer, for example, and the computer works, and you are right now reading these words which stay consistent from one moment to the next. Then there is the biggest problem of all, as the existentialist Martin Heidegger said, not that this computer actually appears as it should from one moment to the next (Yes it is amazing that he was talking about your lap top or personal computer back in the 1930's and 40's and 50's but that is not the point) but that anything should appear at all----why should anything exist at all?

    And indeed, how can anything arise from this quantum wave/field?

    It is for this reason that I have taken Liebniz Principle and modified it:

    The Principle of Sufficient Quantum Form: For every physical existent, because it remains consistent from one moment to the next, there must be, at the Quantum Level, sufficient reason, facticity, and cause (Quantum Information).

    But before we can really approach the question of Why that is behind this stuff, we need to ask what is this stuff---this energy/being wave/field, and this quantum information?

    Perhaps we cannot say what this energy/being really is---since it isn't what we think energy really is---a force that moves through time and space. It is not even really a wave, or a field--that is just how scientists can best explain it. But we can argue what it is not----physical. A physical existent is something that has a specific position in space-time. This means that it exists in some kind of present moment---whenever that is, and that it is located somewhere in our 3 physical dimensions of space. It is also material and tangible. It can be measured or observed or somehow perceived. But that is not the case with this Quantum Energy/Being Wave/Field. Scientists may try to argue with me here---but I have to point out that they are forgetting that the only way we can perceive this wave/field is after it has collapsed into a particle. Whatever we use to detect it, an antenna, a photocell, a camera, our eyes, our fingers---it only happens after the wave/field has collapsed into a particle, and has a single position in space-time. And unlike a physical existent, if this wave/field is everywhere everytime then it is the same as being no where----it has no position, not even in time. We cannot locate it anywhere within our 3 physical dimensions, and if we think we did, it is a physical particle, not the wave/field. The fact that it still appears to be in all of space and time tells me that it is a thing of a higher dimension. But if it doesn't have a position in space or time, and it is not physically identifiable in itself, or as itself, then we cannot define it as a physical thing. It is therefore nonphysical.

    Science tells us that it is Quantum Information that is encoded in these particles and other quanta that determine the probability that they will appear in a specific place and time. They have even determined specific laws about Quantum Information, such as that it cannot be destroyed, but it can be altered, and it can be transferred. And it somehow moves through this nonphysical wave/field of energy/Being, and causes it to manifest physically creating a particle that has history, spin, and appears to have a vector, is a specific type of particle (or subatomic particle), and that together with all the other particles and subatomic particles generates the phenomena of our physical reality and all that exists---phenomena which represents the transferred and altered Quantum Information. But this quantum information cannot be located either. We can see the results of it reflected in how, when, where, and what kind of particles manifest physically. But we cannot locate it any more than we can locate the wave/field of Energy/Being. The closest we can come to even relating to it is the abstract concept of mind---which by definition is nonphysical.

    So there we are. Quantum Information carries meaning and reason for being. It gives meaning to our world particle by particle and creates the physical world in a way that is meaningful, and therefore defines our reality. And in this way, science is taking us back to the deeper questions of Why, and giving us a hint that there is a final question of Why and that the world, life, existence, is not absurd.
     
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  6. ThriceHistMorphs

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    I read this all the way through. I would agree we are entering a new point where we find Meaning through Science and it will save us from complete collective self-destruction.

    With my Dice Tests, I have gone past the 20,000 roll mark. That's 20 tests of 1,000 rolls each. My number is still winning. Right now it is at 4 tests of surpassing 2 standard deviations, while the next number is at 3 tests, and another number at 1 test, with all the other numbers still at zero. This is significant not only because my number is actually winning, but because other numbers are participating too.

    I have 8/20 tests where some number transcended 2 standard deviations. Radin told me that the average out of 20 is around 1 test of a number surpassing 2 standard deviations. So something very significant is definitely happening here. I am conducting my own theories and have a name for the theory, but I am hesitant to share the name of it because it is a life-long project and I want to protect it.

    But I think a lot of points that you made play a part. If every particle of energy and every potential ALREADY exists now, then it is simply all about trying to access this infinite source. This is how you could climb the ladder of Probability. And what's amazing is that your Mind and Intention can play a direct role.

    I want to get an EMF Meter in order to see if when I get on a "roll" if there is any change in frequency that is observable.
     
  7. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    I personally don't believe that mind puts off an electromagnetic field, other than what we refer to as brain waves which is a biological phenomena produced by the physical activitity of the brain which reflects activity of the mind. Brain waves are a localized phenomena as opposed to mind which can generate nonlocalized effects (as demonstrated by the well documented experiements I have referred to at MIT). Effecting the role of a die or dice is another example of nonlocalized phenomena.

    I say that it is not electromagnetic in nature because: 1.) We live in the middle of an ocean of electromagnetic radiation in all frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. Yet there is no interference within our mind from external electromagnetic signals, despite the fact that the human body with its electrical conducting neural network, including a large nerve running up our spine, serves as a natural antenna. 2.) The human mind does not give off any detectable electromagnetic signals of its own, or cause any interference in any electronic devices or recievers. 3.) The electromagnetic wave interacts with physical matter through a carrier particle, the photon, which manifests in a physical state. Since mind does not demonstrate any sympathetic or generative participation with electomagnetic fields (as per 1 & 2), it may interact with physicality in a much more fundamental and nonphysical manner.

    An example of a more fundamental manner in which mind interacts or connects with physical matter, is that it is the very force or dynamic that gives rise to form, in other words we are talking about essence. Quantum Information is an example of essence, and may represent a form of mind.

    Because Einstein's theory of relativity defines time in terms of the Universal Constant or the speed of light, I would place electromagnetic fields/radiation as something of the 4th dimension. Because of the intimate relationship between electromagnetic radiation and mass (and because I assert that physicality only exists in the present, so all particles relate to 'present' time in the same manner as does a photon) I also place the wave of wave-particle duality in the 4th dimension. I place mind in a higher dimension.
     
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  8. ThriceHistMorphs

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    I'm really looking forward to Writer returning at some point. I don't have proof of the Dice to present, but I do have an expansion of the Dice Tests from gotpsi.org. I challenge anyone to beat me of 32/100 hits on the first Card Test.

    If you can't read it, it says I got 31/100 (about a week ago) with 164 to 1 odds. Last night I topped it and got 32/100 with 318.5 to 1 odds.
     

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