The Great Philosophical Discussion Returns

Yes I remember this that you were talking about. I think it was somewhere in the Philosophy thread? I remember you mentioning the Decohrence and Wheeler Delayed Observation.

 

[SIZE=10.5pt]I must say that I too don't like the term 'magic' when applied to ontological arguments. It refers mainly to 2 things: 1.) Tricks that use diversion tactics, sleight of hand, and other similar hidden methods in order to create the illusion of a supernatural event. 2.) Ceremonies, rituals, healings, and other activities, techniques, abilities, and so forth that for Western Man was repressed, belittled, demonized, and otherwise written off as institutionally unacceptable by the church. Repressed in this manner, they were not passed down to subsequent generations and were thereby largely reduced to little more than bits and pieces of fairytales and silly superstitions. Today Western Man looks down on any culture that has traditions delving into the supernatural as magic in the same context as silly superstition. This was part of the disenchantment of the cosmos that propelled the Modern Age forward, and it was a necessary step. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]But now we are left with a universe that is cold and dead, and based on Leibniz argument of Sufficient Cause, is absurd. Science gives us the argument that what seems magical and supernatural is simply just not yet understood, which is true, even if science does not know how profound such an understanding could potentially be. (But imagine going back to the 1800’s where accepted Medical Science involved miasmatic theory and the belief that disease is caused by bad smells, and that you brought with you a tablet in which you had downloaded all kinds of dubstep music-----------of course, you would probably smell something bad and quickly get sick and die, but, you would really blow their minds on many levels ;-) Years later the officials at the time machine lab would speak of the folly of not realizing you were joking when you said, “Trust me, I’m a doctor.” Which also explains why you had no use for all the medical equipment, Medical books, and medicines that were sent with you, and which you quickly disposed of on a garbage heap (but in your defense, such items are much heavier to lug around than a tablet filled with electronic music with killer bass drops). But I digress…) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]In order to bring meaning back to the Modern World, science may very well have to break the dogmatic binds of materialism, and re-enchant the Cosmos. But this may lead to the ability to bend space-time, and even interplanetary travel.[/SIZE]

 

I liked all of this but I didn't understand the Dubstep part.

 

Modern science is arrogant. As Wolf said it has dismissed anything it can not understand. But they are only focusing on one part of a bigger picture. I see more scientists adopting an Agnostic view of reality then seemed to a few decades ago. They are discovering that there is evidence for some of the things they once thought the myths of "magic". For example the idea of more dimensions and life not visible to the human eye existing. They say there is proof of this. This is where the extra dimensional beings, or the what ancestors might have called spirits or gods can sometimes be. Ancient man understood a lot more about the world then we give them credit for.

Perhaps not as much in what we now call science and medicine but a greater understanding of some aspects of these subjects and and understanding of the natural world we have totally lost. Once you loose that connection to the Earth it's easy to loose your place as a human in it.
if you believe the ancient alien theories they surpassed our knowledge on many subjects. But then you also believe that Greece was far from one of the oldest civilizations on Earth. That they themselves spoke of civilizations thousands of years before. Those times are the times from which most religious ideals and knowladge of life on Earth have been misinterpreted. That is the time when man spoke with the "gods" directly. Since then many civilizations rise and fall and like now facts that contradict what those in power want are ignored or erased. Modern science will eventually relearn all this. Man has already taught itself many things again.

 

I would agree. I feel like there's never been any Time, so there's been literally Eternal remembering and then losing of Timeless Knowledge ad infinitum. There's interesting Archaeological evidence of perhaps Atlantis or something older than Egypt. Knowledge like the Pythagorean Theorem (there's evidence that it was used prior to Pythagoras), and all the Religious Truths just go through a Timeless forgetting, re-jumbling, and then eventually "discovered" aka remembered once again eventually.

There's even some weird artifacts that are ancient that look like Cell Phones. Could it be that we're not even close to as advanced as prior ancient Civilizations once were? Even Nikola Tesla 100 years ago could foresee the existence of Cell Phones. If that knowledge is Timeless then I don't see why it couldn't have been known way in the past.

The only change you have to make is to look at History more as Cyclical or a Spiral rather than Linear.

 

Most simply stated, you really screwed up---new diseases were causing havoc. There was a joint UN-World Bank-IMF funded project to build a time machine, a project so expensive that only one person would be able to go back in time. Post-Trump America and the other 1st Nation Countries were pretty much bankrupt (Some argue if only Trump would have been impeached and sent to prison for collusion with Russia two weeks earlier the global financial situation would have been entirely different---and all anyone can think of now when you say Trump----is the copious amounts of urine in that now infamous Russian hotel room video---and why did he keep it behind the couch in the Oval Office?! But that's another story...) It cost over $995 Trillion to send you back----the idea was to give modern medical science a 100 year jump start in hopes that we would now be advanced enough to heal these illnesses which were killing off whole towns faster than you could say "400 Mexican women and children killed by cyanide gas spray from Trump Wall on Saturday." It was so expensive that only 1 person would be able to go back, but as mentioned earlier, you did WOW them with a tablet full of dubstep...

That's right Unfocusedanakin. Few people know it, but Albert Einstein spent time with the Medicine Man, Wallace Black Elk (the son of Black Elk), I think he also attended his sweat lodges. Einstein called him the only real teacher he ever had. I am good friends with the family and the grandson now has his own altar---but his grandfather taught him quite a bit. I have written about this numerous times here too, but the grandson and I have sat up all night many nights drinking coffee and talking Quantum Mechanics. He doesn't have any formal education beyond high school, but his knowledge of the Red Road (Native American spirituality) and spirits is very deep. Our conversations actually involve him talking spirits and abstract spiritual elements, while I talk Quantum Mechanics---both of us translating one into the other. It always amazes me of his understanding of the universe, and how complex these ways are. But I have always been impressed with how deep and complex Lakota (Sioux) myth, such as the creation myth, really is.

You are right about scientists. The concept of a holographic universe is a good example. Some still try to ignore the ontological implications and just look at it in terms of math. But others realiz the real world implications of a holographic universe, and that it means that the reality we experience is largely created in our own minds. Quantum physicists do everything they can to avoid describing the reality of a superpositioned wave, sticking to the math which is abstract enough that real life implications can be ignored. But there are those who are fascinated by the possibilities.




...OK Thricehistmorphs----you can't really blame yourself----the fact is someone you know was on the selection committee, and, well... he set you up for failure. He was an author, and well, you know----anyone who writes books on a truly groundbreaking philosophy generally dies alone and destitute, possibly not even recgnized for decades or more after his death. With a garage full of books that just were not selling, and what ever else was out there probably sitting in grocery store book discount bins so that the publishers could at least get a fraction of their printing costs back, he was desperate to do something to make some money. Then this opportunity for a who-done-it bestseller just fell into his lap when he was asked to sit in this all-important selection committee in order to save all human life on earth. After all everyone loves reading scandal, and gross negligence, inside scoops, historical accounts, mysteries, strange events, human folly---that's all part of a best seller formula. So------basically---he hid the real purpose of your going back in time from you, suggested you get rid of the other stuff if it was too heavy, and filled your tablet with dubstep music. Because he knew exactly what day you were going back to Salem Massachusetts, he was able to write the megabusting best seller 'The Time Traveler Who Sealed Human Fate, By Mountain Valley Wolf. He made millions off of it.

The very first news article he found about your exploits in a Salem Newspaper from that time was a small page 4 article with the headline, 'Warlock Stoned to Death after Revealing Magic Machine Bearing the Sounds of Hell.' (Oh, I forgot to mention that stoning detail about your demise.) If it's any consolation---you are famous----your name was infamous for the remaining decade or two of human life on this planet before the diseases and Trumps destruction of environmental laws and regulations killed off all human life.





OK----it was late when I wrote that lastnight, and I was tired. I was going to write something about how amazing and radical it would be for someone to take a tablet filled with wonders back to the 1800's, including dubstep which would be completely mind blowing for people then, but, I started off on a silly tangent-----and then ran with it...

 

I agree that our ancestors were far more advanced than we give them credit for. Though I would not go so far as to say that they were more technologically advanced than we are now. Or that we are simply rediscovering old knowledge (Though that is happening in cases too.) But I will say that they were far more advanced than we are in dealing with the nonphysical aspects of the cosmos. In my own experience, I would say that I have seen a better success rate with indigenous healing methods than those of Modern medicine. And I have come to learn that when Natives tell stories of plants talking to them to reveal their healing abilities, that this in fact actually happens. (And if you consider the amazing and tremendous plant knowledge of a healer in the Amazon, the modern Western explanation of centuries of trial and error (eat it and see what happens) becomes utterly ridiculous...)

 

Anyway---back to the discussion at hand:



[SIZE=10.5pt]There are other arguments as well that challenge the Materialist of Naturalist assumptions. In my thread on the deconstruction of the physical in the philosophy section, I introduce what I call, The Dead Friend Paradox, which I will summarize here—basically you have a friend on a space ship 5 light years away, and everyday you communicate with each other, however, there is the caveat that you are each responding to e-mails sent from the other 5 years ago. So on a particular day you are both responding to 5 year old e-mails, he is telling you that his mission has just been completed, when suddenly his control panel lights up as something catastrophic has just happened aboard his ship. He sends off a Mayday call, and suddenly his ship explodes into a massive fireball. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]For the next 5 years you continue to get e-mails from him, and you respond and update him on what’s happening with you, all on the illusion that he is still alive. Just like all his e-mails, the distress signal was sent by photons---basically atoms on the antennas of his spaceship emitted photons, which are the carrier particles of electromagnetic waves, for that brief moment, a position was determined (one each for the photon and the atom), but then it was off through the universe as a radio wave moving across space at the speed of light. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Before continuing, I would like to point out that we know that information can travel faster than the speed of light—this happens with entangled particles where information is shared instantly regardless of their distance of separation. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Regardless, in the empirical universe of classical science, and Einstein’s Relativity, we understand that it will take 5 years for that distress signal to reach earth. However, Einstein also demonstrated that at the speed of light, Space equates to zero, and time equates to zero. At the speed of light, the whole universe could be created, existed, and collapsed into self-destruction in an infinitely small flash. We could write that off as being non-relevant by just accepting that we live near or at the limit of zero in terms of the speed of light, so as everything is relative, where light experiences no time or space, we experience space and time the size of the universe.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]But then we bring in Quantum Mechanics, and suddenly reality from the perspective of light becomes more significant: Because that distress signal is traveling at the speed of light as a wave, it is actually not traveling across the universe, but rather is superpositioned across the universe through both space and time. In other words it is like a field across the universe simultaneously everywhere and in every time, just as much as it is a wave. Therefore, the very instant it leaves that antenna as a wave, it is on every side of the universe, and everywhere in between, including right there where you are, sitting at your computer, answering an e-mail your friend sent 5 years earlier, it is even inside your computer, and inside your head. (In fact what is really weird is that if this wave-field is all through time, then that means that this message is in the deep past, as well as the day your friend left earth to start his mission, as well as the week before his ship exploded, the day before, the moment before he sent it…). So the question is, if this wave is superpositioned everywhere, including even in your room, your computer, and your head, why does it take 5 years to receive such a critical transmission?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]My take on this wave field is that it is everywhere in time and space from our perspective because it is a 4th dimensional state of being (and I define physical has having a position within the 3 physical dimensions of space-time (time representing only the physical present), therefore this 4th dimensional state is a nonphysical state). So you might be inclined to say, ‘Ohhh, no wonder we can’t receive it, because it is in a higher dimensional state—and something that is on a higher dimension, could appear to be simultaneously everywhere around us without having a ‘physical’ presence for us if it does not actually cross through or pierce into the 3 physical dimensions. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What determines when and where (and also how, why, and what) a wave will manifest as a physical particle (a probability wave collapse), is the quantum information. Granted, quantum randomness suggests that random particles of the distress signal will happen at various times and places throughout the universe, but the bulk of the particles directed at earth will manifest on our antennas 5 years after they were sent, and will represent enough particles to reproduce the distress signal as sent.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]But remember, entangled particles share information instantaneously regardless of distance between them. If everything was based on physicality, and space-time, as science understands it, then this presents quite a problem as really any distance means that the information is moving faster than the speed of light. On the other hand, if we consider the wave as a thing of the 4th dimension, where space and time equal zero, then of course the information would be shared instantaneously, no matter where the two particles are manifesting at a given moment in space-time. The information is shared across the 4th dimension as the particles appear in 3 dimensional space.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]In other words, the quantum wave ‘knows’ that this information should be shared instantaneously, while the distress signal should be shared over a time period indicating the speed of light, versus the 3 dimensional distance between the objects in other words, it needs to know distance/time and distance from object to observer (i.e. source of phenomena to perceiver of phenomena). These are terms that would be meaningless from both a superpositioned perspective, and a perspective of zero-time zero-space. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Now you might argue, ‘but entangled particles are special because they are entangled. Maybe in all other cases, the laws of physics determine the outcome.’ The problem is that the laws of physics did not account for the superpositioned state of the wave-field. The information is right there with you, even within you, so how does the wave-field know to wait 5 years before allowing it to manifest in a physical sense?—not to mention that there could be other receivers in other directions at varying locations, each of which would receive the information based on their respective light-distance from the ship. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I would argue that quantum information represents a reality transcending the 4th dimension. Whether you agree or disagree that the 4th dimension represents the dimension of light and the wave, you still can’t deny that Quantum Information must transcend the superpositioned reality of Quantum Mechanics or the zero-space zero-time reality of the electromagnetic wave. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]On the other hand, what does this superpositioned reality say about people who have a bad feeling or sense when something bad happens to a loved one or close family member. The particles that make up a person’s physical body are also superpositioned only manifesting as actual particles for radically brief moments of time. Could it be that such people are picking up cues from the quantum information of their loved ones in such events?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]This problem about how a superpositioned wave will manifest a physical particle at a certain time and place in a certain manner is one of several examples of how Quantum Information may very well represent a form of consciousness or mind. Another such problem is the one I described in my thread in the Philosophy Section, The Quantum Mechanical Argument for Essentialism. That one basically states that quantum randomness by itself should break down every object and destroy consistency from one moment to the next. Therefore Quantum Information, by determining how, when, where, and what particles will manifest, serves as essence or form. Therefore a table is always a table, when you scratch that table, it is always that same table with that scratch. If you dig a hole where that scratch was you will now always have a table with a deep hole in it. That table, and everything else, has what Sartre described as facticity—a unique history that makes it what it is. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Quantum Information does this by manipulating the 4th dimensional wave-field, which because it is superpositioned, is meaningless by itself. In other words, a superpositioned wave-field has nowhere to move to (it is everywhere), and no time to move to (it is in every time). Therefore while it is meaningless, it also represents absolute potentiality. Manifestation in physicality is actuality, and it is accomplished through Quantum Information. Every Quanta to an object, individually and collectively create the phenomena of that object. This requires Quantum information to have a memory (Quantum Mechanics calls this a history, also quantum information cannot be lost), be able to perceive phenomena (Quantum Information can take on new information), to process that phenomena, or think (Quantum Information can be modified by new information), and to demonstrate volition or intention (the particle is the intentional object of Quantum Information). These are all processes of mind.[/SIZE]

 

Just take some Shrooms and you quite literally see that plant-life (I know it's a fungus) can actually speak with you directly. I think it would be extremely interesting to grow some weed or shrooms and send sonic-soundwaves at it from some album I'm doing, and see if it has an interaction with the plant.

Regarding Technology, it's hard to say, but you should look into some interesting evidence that they actually did have high technology in some distant era.

Give me a second to soak in all of your next post.

 

Looking forward to Writer returning and addressing this post. I can be patient...

 

I am a total telepath and also live in a world of stunning coincidence. I can influence people's behavior...through time even. I'm sure others have noticed the eerie things I do. Like that one time I walked through the room while Price is Right is on and everyone just kept getting 10,000 or something on the wheel. Memories. Cherish them.

 

Yeah...Check this out. Latest stuff from Dean Radin. Kind of addresses your point about "through time" perhaps. Nonlocal Consciousness.






Also...just finished my latest Test last night. I'm at 18,000 rolls. It hasn't been since around the 10,000 or 11,000 roll mark that I have had my chosen number surpass 2 Standard Deviations. Last few Tests have just been nothing too out of the ordinary. But this latest Test I started off with my first 100 rolls on LSD. I got 25/100. For the rest of the test in the next coming weeks (no longer on LSD but drunk and stoned every time), I then also got two different 22/100s, one other 25/100, and last night topped off the last 100 rolls with 26/100. The other rounds consisted of a 12/100, two 15/100, 17/100, and 19/100. So it's not like I'm on fire at every single point. I had such a good Test but then a late slump, so it actually came down to the last 100 rolls where I would find out if this latest Test would yield anything significant, and I delivered that 26/100.

This lead to 198/1000 for my chosen number (the highest yet that I've scored), and now the overall score is Officially:

Out of 18,000 rolls and 18 different Tests of 1,000 rolls each:

2: 4 different Tests of getting or surpassing 2 Standard Deviations
4: 2 different Tests of getting or surpassing 2 Standard Deviations
1: 1 Test of getting or surpassing 2 Standard Deviations

All other numbers: 0 Tests of getting or surpassing 2 Standard Deviations

 

One way to make 2 or 12= 35 to 1. 2 ways to make a 3= 1 and 2 and 2 and 1=34 to one. 3 ways to make 4= 2 and 2 and 1 and 3 and 3 and 1. 4 ways to make a 5=4 and 1, one and 4, 3and 2and 2 and 3. 5 ways to make a 6= 3and 3, 4and 2 and 2and 4, 5 and 1 and 1 and 5. 6 ways to make a 7= 2 and 5, 5 and 2, 3 and 4 , 4 and 3, 6 and 1 and 1 and 6. 8 back it down by subtraction. I didn't read any of this post and I haven't rolled dice since 1960, but I did remember dice odds. Last time I shot dice, I did something that about floored me-----I rolled 3 12s in a row! I know the odds were the same each time dice are rolled, but I have no idea how to figure the odds on 3 in a row. I lost 3 bucks (big spender!) and some guy actually let his money on 12 ride and won an as- pocket full a' dough!

 

You have to do a very large amount of Dice rolls to see if there's anything really interesting happening or not. Yes, there are always odds, and when you surpass the odds and average in Mathematically Statistically significant ways (2 Standard Deviations), then it is worth further exploration.

 

On the dice table (or other games of chance) RUNS happen (what you are seeking, I guess) and I know that I have had the weird experience of "feeling/knowing that a run is happening and being able to take advantage of it by letting my money ride and then pulling back at the right time. When I didn't pay attention to the feeling---I missed a run. I haven't gambled for years, I got ahead --and stopped. Card reading in blackjack is a different matter. One can turn the odds in ones favor on particular hands. But as soon as "they"realize that one is counting---and winning--you'll find yourself looking at the facade of the place in which you recently had ideas of hittin' the big time!

 

I'm really looking forward to Writer returning at some point. I don't have proof of the Dice to present, but I do have an expansion of the Dice Tests from gotpsi.org. I challenge anyone to beat me of 32/100 hits on the first Card Test.

If you can't read it, it says I got 31/100 (about a week ago) with 164 to 1 odds. Last night I topped it and got 32/100 with 318.5 to 1 odds.

 

Writer oh Writer where art thou?

 

So where’s Writer?

 

Lol

Not here apparently.