Zendik

Wow. I don't like it.

 

Really, what is their attitude about!

 

Maybe Rasha thought that Red Lentil was trying to undermine his project somehow...I can only guess, I won’t try to read his mind. For my part (and sorry for sounding like Mr. Liberal Rainbow Coalition here) I want to hear all points of view…in fact, I think that’s the only way we can do justice to the complexity of the Zendik Farm experience. We can all agree that this was a strange, strange trip, and so of course, everyone’s going to react to it in different ways, and any discussion of our memories of the place is going to have to permit a wide range of responses. With all due respect for the considerable work that Rasha and others have done on the new site, I think it’s senseless to say there’s no relation between the Hip Forums site and the post-Zendik site. I wouldn’t be involved with the latter if it weren’t for the former, and I’m sure I’m not the only one…and Red Lentil’s posts have kept the former alive for quite awhile now, so I for one want to continue hearing what she has to say, whether it’s here on Hip Forums, or on the new site. I should add that I think Rasha’s brainchild is quite important, at least for me, because I’ve been waiting for something like this for years…who the hell can you talk to about Zendik Farm except others who have experienced it?...and so I certainly hope that it doesn’t become a little club with only five members talking to themselves...and the easiest way for that to happen would be to let ego get in the way of the discussion.

Hey, we were all Zendiks...and so we all have ample experience of trying to get along with people we secretly want to kill, for the sake of the Revolution...

 

"Yuk"
"I don't like it"
I've been to other forums that have branched off to their own sites and there was always another group or person that had a fit about it. I don't think I'll ever understand this reaction but oh well....
It's a free world if you don't like the idea fine, no need to stomp around acting childish.

 

The idea of postzendik is to expand the scope of the discussion. This forum is very linear & limited in that one person posts, another replies and if the subject gets changed the earlier issues often get lost in the mess and then xtina_byatch or wafaringstranger something or someone like that shows up and makes this single thread format even harder to use.

Zendik & its associated issues are a big topic. On the postZendik forum seporate threads can be developed so each discussion maintains its focus & meaning.

Also the website itself will be designed to offer permanent information to exZendiks & anyone else interested.

Red Lentil: We'd love to have you participate in postZendik, however, we aren't tying to kill this thread, but you know how this thread gets active & then gets all fragmented and dormant from time to time. We just thought that it is time for it to go to the 'next level.' You've helped keep this thing going & I think your insights would make postzendik better as well. I hope you're not put off.

 

Much better reply to Red Lentil's post than rasha's reply. I could not understand why his post was so hostile. All Red Lentil did was ask a simple question then, seeing him get such a hostile reply kind of turned me off a bit.

Thanks

 

It is always good to have more level headed people around like Greenhornet etc to keep me in check. I by no means meant to insult, and I am certainly not saying that we will not allow people to speak their mind about Zendik (whatever it might be). This site was originally going to be a place where those of us who have lived at the farm could get back in touch with each other. Have you ever tried to call the farm and ask how to get in tough with someone who has left? What a joke. Anyway I am sorry if I had a bad attitude. I hope it will not keep you from participating. Honestly I am super pissed off by what has happened to the farm and I wanted to create a site that goes beyond what we can do with a single thread forum. I am not a nice guy, what can I say. I have been getting crap from a people (both on and off the farm) about participating in this forum and for starting the postzendik.com site. Sorry if I was a bit touchy about what I saw as yet another person against our project.



Rasha

 

how ya been rasha? hope all is well with ya.

 

No problem. We all have our bad days.

I did not know there were people against you project.

 

I hope it's understood that when I wrote "I don't like it" I was referring to Rasha's nasty response and not his website. I'd actually already agreed to write something for postzendik.com (at Greenhornet's request) when I made that last post.

It would be foolish to dismiss Rasha's original response (and FTNW's concurrence). Former Zendiks who are still sympathetic to zendik (note the lowercase "z") are not the best fishing companions for an anti-Zendik like myself.

(the following is a joke)
Rather than trying to get along, I say we splinter, forget about Zendik Farm, and focus on hating each other.

 

Yeah, splinter up and get into violent infighting! The Zendiks would love that - proves their point that we're all just a bunch of deathkulture junkies!

But seriously, it seems that some of us see Zendik as a good thing gone bad that needs some fixin,' while others see Zendik itself as being fundimentally flawed.

I think there's lots of room for fun, friendly debate here and at postzendiK! It would be pretty dull if we all agreed and everything & conformed (hmm IT WOULD be a lot like a Zendik worklist meeting) . . .

 

I think you may have the mistaken impression that I am pro Zendik. Maybe you should read my other posts. It is true that I am not totally negative about the farm. I do not think there are many people who lived at the farm that think it was 100% bad. If so they obviously would not have stayed very long and probably would not feel as strongly as most of us do about the farm and our time there. Even though there are plenty of things to complain about, the farm did (in my opinion) have a lot of good things about it too. If it were not for the good things about the life there I probably would not feel so damn ripped off by the whole experience and would not be giving it much thought. Since I have left the farm I have been trying to get others who recognized both the good and bad of Zendik and were willing to try and make a go of it, minus the totalitarian leadership. You cannot forget that just by posting here under my Zendik name has made any chance of me ever going back impossible (not that I would want to) and therefore why would I defend the place. I do defend the communal, income sharing, cooperative lifestyle however, and the Zendiks did have a lot of great systems going for them (most of which were created and developed by people who are no longer there).

Rasha

 

Is that fact or just what you believe. If you honestly had a change of heart don’t you think they would take you back. I think they probably would. Several threads back someone said people who were asked to leave were allowed to return to ZF.

 

I agree with Rasha that the good aspects of Zendik are good (and, of course, the bad are bad). To be anti-Zendik would show a certain level of ignorance, despite whatever may have transpired for you as an individual at Zendik Farm. I have read a great deal of Wulf's work, and visited ZF, and in that process made my own deductions about what does and doesn't work about the place. From those deductions, I chose not to live there. Still, part of me aspired to be a part of Zendik, as I can definitely relate to where Wulf is coming from philosophically. Not being able to live up to something is not necessarily criteria for rejecting it. Personally, I never put ZF down for the fact that it wasn't for me. The social structure there is very tough to integrate into, and one of my observations about the place was the difficult time new people had battling there way up the social totem pole. Of course, some of that was caused by a wide cross section of archtypes being subjected to each other day in and day out. There was almost no possibility for harmony simply due to peoples' different musical tastes alone! Not to mention everything else. I'd have to agree with Nez that communal life is tough, and ZF is just simply not for everybody. My question is, why isn't there more emphasis on the ideologies and less on what's wrong with everyhting? I've read massive volumes of philosophy both political and spiritual, and have never come across anyone who wraps it all up like Wulf, whether it's all original or not. At this point in history, an original thought is a rarity. Most everything has been thought or said, but understanding is the key to making a change happen. It's my observation that most everyone walking around this planet is void of knowledge concerning their bottom line beliefs, but they are more than willing to make unqualified judgements about what's right or wrong. This forum is no different. I'm not claiming to be the judge of what's right and wrong myself. But, if you put something down that you don't understand, I must say that you are not doing the world a bit of good. There is only one judge of what is right and wrong, and that is cosmic law. Look into this, because as humans we have a choice: we can live within the law without predicament, or we can go against it and pay the price. From what I have read, I believe this to be Wulf's message. It seems that ZF is not living up to this ideal, and it may be next to impossible to do so. I haven't come across anything that looks any better, as far as communities are concerned. Hopefully something will be forming soon. To close I'd like to say that there is no point in throwing away something that you cannot use. Pass it on to someone who may. Losing interest in your ideals is surely death. We are the future...

 

Check out their new "Wanted Poster"!!!

What a crock!


See they try and trap young people who's lives seem not to be working and are idealistic and without a job. Then they Promise you "Fulfillment","Friendship" and a chance to live your dreams while saving the earth with what?
The GREATEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!!!!!!!
Give me a break!!!!
So if one's acting violently for working a 9-5 job how should one act working 12-16 hour days? Without pay or free time!!!!!!!
Sorry, but this shit pisses me off.
Take Wulfs advice. Don't go!

 

Pathetic. I checked out their "New building" projects and they credit, well here:

"We wanted to thank John Mansville for making a formalydyhde free insulation. If you’re going to build something get this wonderful highly efficient insulation without poisoning you or you’re family. We just used it building our addition on to our new house."

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
You guys ever hear of Cob?

 

What I would like to see is a list of concrete actions, not philosophical masturbation, but actual steps the Zendiks have or are or are even planning to take to "save the world"

As far as I can see the most environmental impact the Zendiks have had is to buy 330 acres in Texas and then sell it to square cattle men, and then buy 102 acres in North Carolina and then sell it off to the highest bidder to create a high-end subdivision called "Panther Creek farms" (which is a lie since it ain't no farm no more and if the residents ever saw a panther on their property they'd call animal control)

So what gives? How can these people claim to be trying to "save the world"?

If Zendik is saving the world then God help us.

 

Well I suppose the same question could be asked of you and all of us. What are you/we doing to save the planet?

The answer is we are doing what we can. How much more than that can we do?

I don’t think the criticism of selling their farm to the highest bidder is really fair. What were they supposed to do, sell to the lowest bidder? They can’t passably be held liable for what someone else does with their property. If they were super wealthy and could buy a bunch of land and prevent people from developing it that would be great but they are not.

They try to educate people. They publish a magazine and have a TV show where they talk about the dangers of our environment. I am sure they attend rallies and protests. Unfortunately, the general public does not want to hear it. To be honest with you, I don’t think the general public will truly understand the danger until it is too late. If huge advocacy groups have been unable to promote change what do you expect a group of 20 or so zendiks to do.

 

Dalamar: We aren't going around claiming to be trying to "saving the world" like the Zendiks are. When you publish magazines year after year saying that you're some kind of revolutionary environmentalist group that's totally against capitalism and then you do next to nothing to help the environment and act like capitalists it makes you complete hypocrites, doesn't it?

You see, I don't go around claiming these things. I don't sell magazines on the street to lure people in with a pack of lies to get them to labor for me, do I? You don't pretend to be the cure for all the world's ills, do you? but Zendik does.

That's the difference.

What do I expect the Zendiks to do? I expect them to at least try to "walk the talk" or SHUT UP and get another gig. Really, honestly, I don't expect the Zendiks to do anything. I just want people to know what they're really about.

 

It's not the world they are interested in changing or saving it's Their World that is the subject of their work. Chen told me once that he didn't care about changing the world and it couldn't be done anyway and that he just wanted to live a good life.
It's their world and their world alone that they have an interest in saving.
So they have a TV show, so does NORML here in Portland but big deal, for Zendik Farm it's all about advertising for labor and donations. The truth is they're a bunch of moochers who talk smack about the people that support them.