Zendik

Day two of my new found home for postings. Hello again, and to think Zendik's didnt like my writing and said I wouldnt amount to anything!!​

Permaculture at Zendik is non-existant nor are they using Eco friendly building products. Why reuse beautiful old timbers then coat them with polyureathane - does everyone know how toxic urethane is? This is just one item that they use. No green products used there.​

Urethane contains three particularly hazardous chemicals not found in other floor lacquering solvents: Xylene, Ethyl Benzene, and Toluene Disocyanate. Studies conducted by the New York City Department of Health report that these chemicals evaporate into the air upon application and are harmful if inhaled.​

How about shopping at Walmart once a week, ​

When you purchase something in Walmart, do you ever imagine young women in Bangladesh forced to work from 7:30 a.m. to 8:00 p.m., seven days a week, paid just 9 cents to 20 cents an hour, who are denied health care and maternity leave; screamed at to work faster; with monitored bathroom visits; and who will be fired for daring to complain or ask for their rights?​

I am not saying that Zendik buy their shirts at Walmart but they do buy other stuff there. ​

True crusaders for the people?​

How about the dyes used in those Zendik tshirts, they get dumped out into the ground after the tshirts are dyed. There are organic & natural dyes that can be used, they dont use them. The T shirts arent even Organic cotton.​

They do compost though, putting the kitchen leftovers in the garden. Whoopee, thats two points for the environment.​

Food, now that also has a pecking order, ask those that come in after dinner is over and make their own food in the kitchen, look in the cooler and see all the food thats marked for the main house, cottage cheese, fish, pork chops, etc​

While the food is excellent and mostly organic you do not get the special items, did I mention that there is a separate kitchen and fridge in the main house and that Kare cooks most of Arol's meals for her individually. Communal living?​

They do encourage the use of shampoos and soaps that do not use chemicals or animal testing but its not enforced.​

They do recycle too, wow another two points, maybe I got this all wrong?​

Oops, wait, look at that burn pile, thats pressure treated wood, painted wood and who knows what else. pity the poor sap who has to breath those fumes. Please deduct ten points and have Kord's lungs checked out please.​

I wonder how much lead paint Jyre has had to plane off of wood in his time there?​

Think of the place as an Ape colony​

All of these primates live in social hierarchies- very steep and rigidly enforced; This is one mode of conflict reduction: if you are the lowest in the hierarchy, you get out of everyone else's path and wait until last to feed. There is probably a very high mortality rate for these individuals or they are ejected from the colony to fend for themselves.​

When conflicts do lead to some form of aggression (often an inhibited form) the protagonists will often approach each other a short time afterward. One will hold an outstretched arm to the other, inviting proximity and physical contact. Chimps will hug, groom intensively, kiss, mount, fondle each other's genitals. Sometimes a mediator will bring the two together. In the colony under observation, this was the oldest female, who would establish physical contact with each, and then withdraw, leaving the protagonists calmed and close to each other. Major reconciliations are accompanied by loud vocalizations by other members of the colony.​

Sound familiar?​

As far as turnover, its difficult to say as some would stay for a month before being asked to leave others would be within three days. All I can say was there was huge purging of old Zendiks in NC, many of the people that Red Lentil would have known are now gone, still some there of course but who knows for how long? ​

A conservative estimate would be that 20 visitors come and go each month, typically staying for two to three days each. Now, if each of those paid their $300 visitor fee thats not a bad business. In NC the suggested fee was $300.​

Freedom, these days? Havent totally found it yet but working on it. With the Homeland Security these days is it possible to be truly free?​

Till tomorrow ​

 

Woo-hoo! I lobbied for the first Zendik recycling program back in Bastrop, and Crea and I organized the thing-- after we got Arol's approval, of course. I'm glad to see that they're keeping the dream alive!

Looks like only eight of the Zendiks I knew are still there (nine if Wulf counts):

Arol
Fawn (Zendik since birth)
Colt (Zendik since toddlerhood)
Zara
Zoe
Kare
Lore
Siah

I can name over fifty other committed Zendiks (people who wanted to live there long-term), all gone now.


Freedom Kissin' without permissin'
-Red

 

zendiks shopping at wally world, too funny.

 

Day Three and still on the subject:-
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Why is the Zendik electric bill so high ? Well how about these items for a start , Electric washers and dryers for the clothes, only on rare occasions did I see laundry hanging outside to dry.
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Electric hot water heater for the showers. thats a lot of showers each day, thats a lot uf energy used if everyone showered each day, some dont, but you couldnt really notice them over the dog smell.
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Which is worse, sleeping in a room with stinky humans or stinky dogs, how about sleeping in a room with both!!
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They could easily use a passive solar system even for pre-heating the water, would save loads of money and help the environment too.

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Egalitarian community?

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Read their magazines and literature, especially the parts about where they promote a community of equality and then go visit them or just read the posts on this forum to see that there is no equality present.
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Think of the place as an ancient civilization:-
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We can see that the social hierarchy in the different ancient civilizations was fairly similar-the people were generally divided into 4 social classes, the nobles and priests being of the highest rank while the slaves and outcasts being of the lowest.
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The nobles and priests enjoyed higher status since they were important rulers of the country and leaders of the society. For instance in Mesoamerica, it is known that the high priests acted as advisors to the lords and nobles in the ruling of the country. In India, the priests were very important people, even more important than the kings and nobles as they were the only ones who could read and memorize the Vedas, which were great poems or hymns sung in praise of the Gods, and perform religious rituals.
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The slaves and outcasts were placed at the bottom of the social ladder, since they were either prisoners of war, convicts, no-pay laborers, people who took on jobs that no one else wanted to do or simply servants to the rich and nobles.
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In the ancient civilizations such as India and Mesoamerica, the slaves were despised by all. Fa-Hie, a Chinese traveler who came to India during the rule of the guptas, mentioned that the outcasts lived in separate parts of the village and that their presence was regarded as a form of pollution to the environment!
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Sound familiar?
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Kool-Aid or Flavor-Aid?
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So, will the Zendiks take the "juice", probably not consciously but it would be easy to introduce something into the food as you are allowed to help cook after only three days there (after your quarantine period is over). Quite amazing that after all these years there has been no mass food poisoning outbreak there or something more sinister.
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They are being watched closely by the local police and more importantly, the feds. The local police visit often, usually looking for someone last seen getting off the greyhound bus. The feds however are usually in the form of a visitor, some can be identified easily but I know of one who was there undercover for several months, completely fooled everybody. How did I know? Lets save that for another day.
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So, the anti-zendiks are abundant, many of whom have never been there and fear mind-control in the community. Of course there is mind-control, no different than the Salvation Army or Catholic church. They just want you to live their way, if you dont Zendik kicks you out, the church doesnt do that.
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However, the anti-cult movement also cites mind-control techniques by Jim Jones and his officials as the cause of the disaster. It is often claimed that the Jonestown disaster was a mass suicide made possible by mind-control. The many victims who were shot or forcibly injected with poison are ignored. Some surviving members claim that they were exposed to mind-control methods.

However, others claim that it was the best experience of their life.




Some claim that Jonestown was a spectacularly successful grass-roots demonstration of what people could accomplish if they break free of capitalism and join in a common cause. They speculate that the U.S. government assassinated the people at Jonestown because they could not tolerate its success.

Food for thought?


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According to Zendik philosophy as described by Wulf, Wal Mart is the worst of the worst, pure, cut-throat capitalists who are destroying planet earth for profit and ignoring the “genius potential” of their workers. Yet, while I was on da Farm on a shopping trip, I asked if shopping at Wal Mart wasn't contrary to the Zendik philosophy and they answered predictably, "it doesn't matter: it's all the same out there." So Wal Mart and the nice guy who runs the community hardware store on the square are the same? The Zendiks condemn capitalism and then shop at Wal Mart just to save a few bucks. So if Al Qaeda operatives came around selling cheaper supplies in order to fund their murderous operations the Zendiks would buy because "it's all the same out there?"



What about "Kosmic responsibility and that Kosmic pizza delivery service?" Wal Mart treats its employees like worker ants; Wal Mart will do anything to dominate and wipe out any competition; Wal Mart pays its people as little as possible and steals their time by making them do extra tasks after they’ve clocked out; Wal Mart pretends to care about the environment while it swallows up farmland and open space to build ever larger stores; Wal Mart imports products made by virtual slave labor; Wal Mart says it’s helping communities as it sucks the life out of them like a giant economic & social vampire; Wal Mart seeks to remake American culture in its own totalitarian image . . . hey, maybe Zendik & Wal Mart aren’t all that different after all!

 

I have been looking at Zendik for several years until I read this thread. I think the thing that most pisses me of is that they do not present themselves as they really are on their websiteand prey on the hopes and dreams of lost people. From what their websites makes it sound, they are excepting loving open minded people trying to help the world. You would almost wonder why everyone would not want to go to Zendik. Its almost as if you have found some secret treasure among the shit of our society. Totally untrue
After reading this thread and reading thier website for several years, its that they deliberately appear to want to except people, help the world, be artistic, and help others be so also. They prey on the basic dream of artistic people to live in a culture where you can wonder under the sky and eat food that you have grown or raised, get excercise through positive manual labor and work on your art when you are inspired and be surrounded by generally happy open minded people that are happy to make new freinds.
Conclusion, its a big scam and they know it. Listen to the people that have been there, and compare it to the image the present on the website. The website is made to attract people with cars and money and willing to drop everything to be free, artistic, and happy, but after they get what they need out of you they tell you to leave, and tell you they owe you nothing. I have known good people, I know what caring people are about, these are not these type of people. You do not just drop someone off in the closest random town and expect somone to fend for themselves. They are lucky no one has killed themselves right off the bat or got mugged or something worse.
I think something needs to be done about this, I almost dropped everything to go to live there, and would have given them everything I had to live and participate in their supposed lifestyle. I would have been kicked out because I have my own philosophy and theories. What would have happened is I would try to gain acceptance through what I beleive, probably by comparing the similarities to Wulfs and my own, only to be told I am completley wrong. I do not tolerate people without critical thinking, or people that beleive that they have the ultimate answer, are infallible, and are unwilling to revise or improve their own philosophies.
They are not really artistic enough to make money from the art they create, and the road warriors selling cd's and magazines are certaintly not going to make enough money for the support of the homestead or the road trips themselves for that matter. They rely on visitors coming and leaving every little bit they have.

Its a scam, its obvious, and it is total bullshit they are screwing over so many people while claiming to be better than the rest of society.

 

Speaking of the people they seem to target. Does anyone have an idea about the number of people that come from the "subs" compared to the number that come from the "streets"? When I ran into them in New Orleans they were talking to the kids that had the hippie look but with money. They seemed to snub the kids that didn't have the money look to them. Also, are the ones with money treated better than those that basically come with nothing? When my friend went, they were mad because he did not bring his car. He signed it over to his parents as a payment he owed them.The Zendiks didn't seem too thrilled about that when he got there.

 

lets all come up with our own fake story, join up, then steal thier bus by force . . .mwhahahahhahhaha.

 

Sorry guys...
I see that no one paid much attention to this "Girl" but she is a stalker that has been stalking me since I broke up with her a few weeks ago...
Girl, or should I say Jenn. You crossed the line this time, you want to play fuck fuck games? You should try my favorite forum.....
I have taken the advice of my Law Enforcement friends. It will be to your advantage to move on and forget about me. Do not e-mail or harrass me again.

 

I am in no way defending Walmart, but it is a part of a "machine" that is near impossible to get yourself out of if you do not live in a commune situation or make a decent salary. So let's say 1 million people boycott walmart, what happends. Does Walmart NOT open it's 4th store in hoboken, probably not, it probably cuts some slave wages or fires some slaves, but does it lose power. No. For the same reasons that Kerry wasn't elected president, the size of the boycott necessary, I am saddened to say is not going to happen in the near future.
For people who are not making living wages, walmart prices allow them to buy things they could not otherwise afford. Walmart can have low prices because its products are made by slave labor. The people who are shopping at Walmart, that do not make living wages by america's standards, are living better than those making the products, but probably are overworked and mistreated at thier low paying jobs that don't have health insurance. Saving 10 dollars a week by shopping at walmart is a health insurance payment right there, or paying some kind of bill. It is a nasty cycle.
I think it is sad that good people who would like to shop at places like trader joe's and support small businesses and support fair trade are in economic situations where they can't afford to because of a similar (but not as extreme) situation here in the U.S..
Eighteen dollars is what the average american earns per hour.
How much do you make an hour ? (rehortical)

Many European countries, and australia have a socialized health care system and thier citizens view it just like we view medicare or social security. I had a native Australian tell me once that the US looks like a third world country without it. But, oh no no no, "we can't have nice things" because we don't want old, fat, bald congressmen thinking that we're "communists". Because you know, if you did'nt approve of the money spent on the inauguration, you must be a "communist".
*grrr*

 

The Wal-Mart issue is worth mulling over, because it opens up a number of questions as to how the Zendiks think about the world. (In my past postings, I would qualify my remarks by saying “at least that was the way they used to do things back in 1996-7,” but from what I’ve read here from other posters, the Farm seems to be exactly the same in its collective behavior and attitudes in 2005...) To play devil’s advocate for a moment, I think the Zendiks would respond to Greenhornet’s and Spanky’s complaint in something like the following terms: “what do you want from us? we can’t do everything, we can’t be perfect, can’t be pure...you shouldn’t just write off the Farm because we can’t respond immediately to everyone’s pet political concerns in our daily lives...and who are you to judge us? do you think you’re saving the world simply because you boycott Wal-Mart, or buy free-range chicken, or vote for Nader, etc.?” And in theory, they’d be right: we shouldn’t expect any individual or group to be perfect, pure, saintly...we wouldn’t say that, e.g., Martin Luther King was full of shit because he ate meat, or didn’t recycle, or whatever. Anyway, the Zendiks would say this point about Wal-Mart (or the burn pile, etc.) is nitpicking, from people who want to reject the overall message of the Zendiks by taking cheap shots. (I heard this sort of “give us a break, we can’t do everything” rhetoric a lot when I was at the Farm, so I think I’m right when I say that this is how the Zendiks would respond...but who knows.)

On the other hand, the Zendiks open themselves up to attacks like this, because they market themselves precisely as a group that has found the One, True Way...and routinely shit on the efforts of others to change the world in any positive, progressive way. If they want to claim that they’re saints, and we’re all sinners out here in the Deathkultur, then naturally, people are going to ask them things like “um...if you’re such bold revolutionaries, why don’t you know or care about how evil Wal-Mart is? how can you call yourselves political activists and not care two shits about what Wal-Mart does to its employees, to the environment, etc.?” To put it more simply, the Zendiks judge everyone as de facto guilty, simply because they’re not Zendiks...but they won’t pause and ask themselves how being a Zendik has any effect whatsoever on the world’s myriad problems. Because the Zendiks think “holistically” (whatever that means) and in “Us Vs. Them” terms, they’re prone to making exactly the sort of accusations that they reject as unfair when leveled against themselves. In the Zendik analysis of the world, if you’re not a Zendik, then you’re one of the spoilers, a mindless consumer zombie who’s just as much a part of the overall problem as the CEOs of Wal-Mart or Exxon. The Zendiks would say, as Spanky observed, “well, who cares about Wal-Mart? it’s all the same old shit...if Wal-Mart disappeared from the earth today, the earth would still be in a very sorry state...” But they never take the next step and ask themselves how their solution is making any real dent in the world’s sorry state...

To put it another way, this logic of “we can’t do everything” opens the door to 1,001 little compromises in the Zendik’s overall lifestyle. We won’t save the world by boycotting Wal-Mart...so why not shop at Wal-Mart, if that saves us a few bucks? We won’t save the world by disposing of our junk in a safer way...so why not do it the way we’ve always done it, if that saves us a bit of time and energy? If you multiply these little compromises over and over again, at the end of the day, it’s not at all clear what the Zendiks are left with, in terms of concrete things that they’re doing which make them examples for the rest of us...

The Zendiks are fond of saying (if I remember the phrase), "it's not friendly to be stupid"...which means, essentially, it's unethical and irresponsible to be ignorant about the state of the world...which I'd agree with 100%. But their infuriatingly cultish ways of thinking often lock them into very unfriendly and very stupid attitudes (about Wal-Mart, about the burn pile, about any number of other things, major and minor, that they don't want to trouble themselves with thinking about).

 

Protest with your dollars. Anyone that really wants to can avoid wal-mart. it is not hard. first, what do you really need to buy? second, learn to eat for sustenance? go natural with health and shop at your local co-op. Support your local community, and if wal-mart is "a part" of that community, screw them. let people know that you do care about things and you do not have to live communally to be this way. you just have to truly care and do what is right, and if shopping at wal-mart because it is saving you money every week, then maybe you need to shop less.

I am just one with my opinions, so take them with whatever kind of heart you feel you should. but saying that you or anyone else should shop at wal-mart is a load of crap. i don't care if you only make $6 an hour, YOU CHOOSE how to spend that, not wal-mart or any other store or person---you do.

 

While I realize that I, alone can't hurt Wal Mart much by boycotting the place, I am very concerned about what I am personally contributing to. To look at it another way, just because I don't murder anyone, won't stop other people from murdering, but that does not make me want to kill people, even if I profited somehow from it & didn't get caught.

We must take responsibility for our own actions regardless of what other people do. If enough people take that stance then things will get better because society is nothing more than the sum total of every individual within it. So don't cop out like the Zendiks (and it is a giant cop out) by saying "I can't change the world so I'm just going to act in my own self-interest & screw everybody else." That's how this whole mess of "suiciety" (to use the Zendik term) got going in the first place, because people who knew better became cynical and coped out.

Somebody's got to be an example for others, and you'd think the Zendiks with their big ideas about "saving the planet" and "kosmic responsibility" (or is that responzibility) would be, but they're just as bad as the many so-called Christians who suppoert war & greed & murder in direct violation of their supposed religion. Those Zendiks are no better.

So please don't fall into the trap and make excuses for Wal Mart or any other gross dehumanizing institutions. The struggle is here, the struggle is now, and it starts with you.

 

Just to prevent misunderstanding...in my previous post, I was trying to articulate the logic of the Zendik cop-out, and reject it precisely as a cop-out...the point was, the Zendiks would probably see the struggle over Wal-Mart as small potatoes, not worth giving a second thought to, and nothing compared to the great revolutionary experiment that they're engaged in on a daily basis...but of course, this is a crock of shit, since Wal-Mart is not at all small potatoes (it really does make life miserable for a great many people), since it would be very easy for the Zendiks to take responsibility for their actions and refrain from adding to this misery...and since they've given us little proof that their way is any more progressive (quite the opposite, in fact).

By the way, we should notice the irony here...the Zendiks "don't sweat the small stuff" in the sense that they don't believe that any particular, local political struggle will have a widespread, overall positive effect. But one's life at Zendik Farm is often a matter of struggling quite vigorously over very small stuff indeed...e.g., you might have to answer to the group in a "living therapy" session because you left your dirty socks on the floor, or because someone caught you giving a dirty look to one of your fellow Zendiks...

So they accept as a matter of principle that it really does matter whether or not I take care of my dirty socks...this is not small potatoes, it's something that I really need to work on, because (a) I make life a bit more unpleasant for my fellow Zendiks by making a mess of our common quarters, when with a little work I could eliminate this unpleasantness, and (b) they'll see my laziness as a symptom of an overall failure on my part to be cooperative, to think of others, etc. But it doesn't occur to them that there are other applications of this principle that one must take responsibility for one's actions, beyond this sort of day-to-day, trying-to-get-along-with-people level...

 

Well said, godless.

 

And as for Zendiks shopping at Wal-Mart...

Since the Zendiks don't get paid for their labor, they're ignorant of the profound and unprecedented impact that Wal-Mart has had on the lives of the working-class.

If they cared.. ahhh.. Imagine it! Forty Zendiks could all get jobs at their local Wal-Mart and unionize the place...

The Zendiks would be a real threat if they weren't so fucking cynical.

 

I respect what you have to say Rabbit, but let me bring in a little more detail. "maybe you should shop less" shop less for things like ...food ? I know that walmart has a reputation for selling plastics and non-perishables, but they sell essential things ALOT cheaper. Things like Fruit, etc etc.
The only other option I have is Food Lion, they aren't any better ethically than Wal-mart, infact the employees there seem to be alot more miserable than the ones in Walmart. Then ofcoarse there is my local health food store... as everyone knows anyone who shops there and does not make more than 35k a year is living beyond thier means ( ie: its expensive ). I do not have co-ops in my area, so I don't know if that is a viable option. I get the feeling however that even if it was, it would still be a bit too pricey (I've read about other co-ops in other areas).

Am I the only one that feels that it is not going to accomplish anything worthwhile to boycott walmart unless there was an active movement that drew in people not just the people on hipforums but people who drive suvs and live without questioning alot ,etc.

ps- (and I am not saying all that was said is'nt true) but walmart employees seem happier then most stores I have walked into - ie: they seem relaxed like they can be themselves, and near customer service there is a wall with the names and amounts of all the donations given to local non-profits)

Anyway - if anyone really wants to continue on about Walmart we should start a thread on it somewhere and leave this thread to Zendik.

peace.

 

There's a thread about Walmart in the Consumer Advocacy forum, where I just posted my Walmart summer tour solar freak-out info --- lol,

yes, every once in a while I hold the cursor over the thread as it comes up in the Communal forum and I see that all these 436 pages came from someone who wanted to know "as much as possible" before they made a decision to go Zendik. I think they're getting that and more.................
Becca

 

Just curious as to what everyone thinks will happen when Arol is gone?

Does anyone think that Fawn can carry it on?

Like my signature ? Now thats Art!!!!

 

First, let me say that noone should base their decision to go there or not solely on the information contained in a forum. As you can read here, the zendik life did not work out well for some people but, that does not mean it would be bad for you. We are all different and what is good or bad for some does not make it so for all. Do research on the place and (if you can)talk to people who have been there and liked it as well as people who did not. Finally, visit the place before you make any commitments. Don’t chuck off your life and head off to the farm def and blind. Even then, if you do decide it is for you, follow the advice given above and have a way out. I am not saying this because I believe they are bad. It is just plain good advice for anyone going to a place like zendik farm. To shamelessly quote a line from a movie “first we try. Then we trust.”