Would the US government use Swine Flu vaccine as a method of population control?

Not quite "population control"

 

Are you denying the significance of 60,000 forced sterilizations of American citizens? Are you aware of the eugenic motives behind the legislation?

 

I am aware of the positive and negative "eugenics" programmes that occured...as questionable as some were, they were not the same as population control programmes...such as the one in China.
Even than one is an attempt to mitigate the soaring population for benign reasons. I even think there is legislation preventing Internal and external population control programmes.

 

Shit like aspartame, When you digest it, it breaks down into formaldehyde (AKA embalming fluid). Oh and I noticed the other day Potassium Chloride was in a pack of bacon I had purchased. Correct me if I'm wrong here but, Potassium Chloride is what is used in lethal injection.

You have a good point here. But what are the long term effects of being exposed to these 'minute' doses. Don't you think a government that would like us to be safe would require the water be tested and filtered for this stuff? Under current law they are not required to do anything about it.

Another thing, What about that book, Eco Science, where John Holdren openly admits that he would like to put a sterilant in public water? We have psychopaths running our country, and from what I hear, so does the rest of the world.

 

I have to disagree. The country was clearly not ready for these programs, but they were definitely aimed at reducing the population of certain 'worthless types', and I suspect at reducing the population as a whole. This is where Hitler got much of the inspiration for his eugenic programs, and the people behind the American legislation praised him publicly for as long as it was safe to do so. Even after the war, many of them still privately praised his work. This should be a clear indication of the direction these programs were meant to take, if the public had been ready to accept it at the time.

 

hippiepeece, most things, in large enough doses, are not going to be good for you...and have the potential to be bad for your health...no dispute there.
Aspartame (I was hoping you were going to be more creative) is the usual substance that people think of when thinking of "toxins" that they consume.
There is a wealth of evidence to suggest aspartame is perfectly safe if used in microscopic "doses," and not over used.

I could throw up 20 studies to show it is "safe," and I'm sure you could throw up an equal amount to say it will come in at night and murder my children.
So, we'll probably not come to any common ground as far as that substance is concerned.
I did, however, once read that the EU had studied all of the studies - both for and against and concluded:

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178620841131.htm

Potassium Chloride, was used in lethal injections, in lethal doses.
It is also needed for normal bodily functions.

YOU have a good point here.
Regardless of scientific study, consuming artificial substances - from multiple sources - in the quantities people do, I can quite imagine it can't be as healthy as consuming none of them.
I do try and limit the amount I consume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Water_Act

Are you sure.
I've looked at this before, never was satisfied with what I found.

When asked whether Mr. Holdren's thoughts on population control have changed over the years, his staff gave The Washington Times a statement that said, "This material is from a three-decade-old, three-author college textbook. Dr. Holdren addressed this issue during his confirmation when he said he does not believe that determining optimal population is a proper role of government. Dr. Holdren is not and never has been an advocate for policies of forced sterilization."
...
The White House also passed along a statement from the Ehrlichs that said, in part, "anybody who actually wants to know what we and/or Professor Holdren believe and recommend about these matters would presumably read some of the dozens of publications that we and he separately have produced in more recent times, rather than going back a third of a century to find some formulations in an encyclopedic textbook where description can be misrepresented as endorsement."

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/#white_house_statement

I'm gonna say a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

That's all you have really: suspicions.

 

Seems pretty clear to me...

 

Zorba, I woulnd't say that 60,000 forced sterilizations automatically entails a pop. control agenda. I would have to review tons of individual cases to make any real assessment, and find out the heirarchy of command which led to them. Im not denying the agenda exists, but I don't believe that what you've presented is even decent evidence. I can definately see how to some people, in certain situations, in certain locations, a forced sterilization can be justified on an individual level.

Aspartame? Seriously? That's your argument for them wantin to ax us out?

People and industries have promoted unhealthy lifestyles since the start of civilization. In a nutshell the main problem is people not understanding the importance of health culture, and perpetuating generations of people more ignorant than the last. If people would settle for 10lbs of steak a year instead of 100lbs, our quality of meat would be much higher. Nature can't provide these quantities, but producers will make it seem like we're gettin good food by "cheating" and reducing the quality of our food for quantity. In the end of the day it's our own ignorance that allows these capitalists to prey on us. To ignorantly reduce this dynamic to "kings controlling us" is foolish and an unfounded conspiracy.

 

And you think that it's not possible that he is lying? Politicians have lied in the past. Most recent president's terms are filled with nothing but scandals and back door deals with Saudis and othe evil goons. They create false flage terror attacks, lie to get us into wars, and most recently, to keep us in wars. And the corporate lapdog media just satnds by and advocates these assholes. When 9/11 happened they portrayed Osama Bin Laden as a cave dwelling muslim extremist. When in reality the Bin Ladens are pretty much the richest family in the middle east. When in reality the Bin Laden's are BUSINESSMEN. This is a photo of Osama at 15 with 22 of his brothers and sisters standing around a pink caddilac A FUCKING CADDILAC!!! Maybe it was the inspiration for that old Springsteen song. So why is it so hard to believe that they may want some of us dead. I'm not even going to try to count all the lies Barack Obama and his gang of czars told during only the first months of his presidency. I don't think I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, when you have people who think or have thought this way making decisions for this country! What really gets me is you're going to try to prove my theory about the government wrong by going straight to them for info. I think last week i was watching NBC and the stupid bitch that was on there told people to not believe conspiracy theories/theorists and to "TRUST THE GOVERNMENT AND GET YOUR DAMN SHOT!" After all the shit they've done thats bad in the past I THINK NOT! Excuse me for getting off topic.

 

I couldn't think of anything else at the time. It is safe to assume that a government that is for the people would want to keep them safe? There are many other additives put in foods and soon to be more. I suggest you do your own research.

Unfounded conspiracy? Google 'operation northwoods'... You'd probably say that government documents are unfound conspiracies too.

 

I do plenty of research and use my brain plenty. I know aspartame, msg, hfcs, pesticides, GMO, sodium nitrate/nitrites, phenyl compounds in gum, into infinity. All I'm saying is that it's not some giant plan installed from the top-down just to mess you up. Not *all* of it. It's mostly greedy people who will do whatever it takes to make a buck, and us allowing them to. If we focused our lives on hollistic health our world would have to reflect it. We only have Fruit Loops and Pepsi in the stores because we beg for it. We become products of our environment instead of the environment being a reflection of our being.

And you're totally taking that 2nd quote out of context. I was talking about "kings controlling us" in relation to the nature of supply and demand in the food sector.

 

Ok so it's more about kings controlling our thoughts through the media. I don't know of anybody that begs for froot loops and pepsi. Most people buy it because it's there. It's usually the first thing on display when you walk into a store. So it's not really the government putting it in our foods, its them allowing it to happen while standing back and not saying a damn word. The point is, they don't care, they DON"T care if a few of us get those nasty diseases caused by those foods and die. The CDC and FDA can never answer simple fucking questions because they know that they are in the wrong and don't want to be found out. Mr. Obama promised more transparency in government. He has provided no such thing. And I will once again quote an NBC news medical correspondent, "Trust the government and get your damn shot!" Does that sound good at all? I also hear that some creators of the vaccine are refusing to take it. Oh thats a good sign. They're also telling friends and family not to take it. Yet another good sign.:toetap05:
I'm going to play it safe and not take it, never took a flu shot in the past and never got the flu. I'll just practice good hygiene like I've always done.

 

It's not the government's job to babysit us, it's the government's job to protect our freedom. It's OUR job to look after ourselves. It's our job as human beings to understand who we are, and create a world based upon that understanding.

I don't buy products just because "it's there", I have a set of guidelines and things either fit or don't. Many people don't, and thats what allows these giant companies to prey upon them. Like I said, most people are a product of the environment instead of it's creator. When people become masters of themselves these corporations will cease to exist ,because they will have no funding. Sure they're an enabler, but it's also not right to destroy millions of jobs based on an agenda that doesn't even reflect the general will the public. Change starts from within.

I'm with ya on the vaccine. Take control of your own life.

 

Can you give an example of when a forced sterilization would be justified?

The thing is, you have to look into the people who got these laws passed. Do some research on the American eugenics movement in the first half of the 20th century. Eugenics was considered a science for several decades, and there were a lot of people in this movement who were influencing legislators. There was a lot of literature printed and 'research' done, most of it with Carnegie money. The movement was made up of very racist and elitist people, who made no bones about the fact that, in their opinion, the poor should be culled off by any means necessary. Look into Charles B. Davenport, head of the Eugenics Research Facility and the Eugenics Record Office at Cold Spring Harbor, Long Island; these institutions were put together with Carnegie money. Look into Madison Grant, and Harry H. Laughlin, who gave false testimony to Congress in order to get the Johnson Act passed. Look at Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood. Look at Hitler's relation to these people: his reaction to their work and their reaction to his, even after the war (especially Paul Popenoe).

These policies did come about as part of a eugenic plan, as you will see from but a little research. The names I have given here are only a few of the players. I have neglected many, many names for the sake of brevity.

 

I dont really think about eugenics so I couldn't really give you an example of a justified forced sterilization without spending unwanted time meditating on it. Personally I'm against it, but given the morality of the masses I believe that according to their framework of morality it can be justified.

Spartans justified eugenics in their own way. We justify abortion and killing too. As well as when it's okay to obliterate the rights of the individual during a "crisis".

I'm just not one to write off all 60,000 forced sterilizations as directly caused by the people from the top. If you can show a link between those 60k forced sterilizations and a SUPER corrupted agenda started by the Top then I say that thats real messed up. But statistics are often spun in a way gives credit to an argument but in truth does not.

 

He could be and the other authors could be.
What they have subsequently said seems credible, though.
With out reading the entire book, and his subsequent work, it isn't possible for me to come to any finite conclusions.
It does sound like something critics would pull out of context and use in ad infinitum, regardless of any subsequent writings he has done, or even if what he originally wrote was out of context.
Have you read the entire book?
I think I'll try and read more than I have.

Most presidents terms are filled with scandals, some true some not.
Your welcome to your opinion on them all.

I think it unfair to tar the whole media as "advocates of these assholes."
More likely you disagree with their positions in some cases.
You could, though, be completely unfair and wrong - just sayin'.
Obviously not in all cases...that would be unfair of me.
But, no offence, I think half of what you say is completely unfair.

The Bin Ladens are still rich businessmen/women.
His entire family have not - by anyone with half a brain - been made into Islamic terrorists, just Bin Laden...which he is - he even resided in a cave, perhaps his body still does!
His family have effectively disassociated themselves from his subsequent actions...perhaps not him as a person, but certainly what he has done in their family name.
That picture was taken before OBL became radicalised...
He was 14 in that picture, a good 10-15 years before his ideology changed - with devastating consequences.

Outcast disowned by his outraged family:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Outcast-disowned-by-his-outraged-family.html

I tend to believe this more though:

One counterterrorism expert says, “There’s obviously a lot of spin by the Saudi Binladin Group [the family corporation] to distinguish itself from Osama. I’ve been following the bin Ladens for years, and it’s easy to say, ‘We disown him.’ Many in the family have. But blood is usually thicker than water.”

I'm not suggesting you are making a mountain out of a mole hill (but perhaps in some cases you are.)
I was talking about the allegation made against the author of that book, apparently endorsing mass sterilisation.

As for the lies Obama et al have said...
I'd probably agree with half of what you say about them.

I won't necessarily, but I would point to there literature if something is given from them but chopped up and bastardised by you to make a point.
Like the picture, some things are used to make a point, but you didn't acknowledge that his family have effectively disowned him.
It sometimes feels you have taken things from infowars et al, and not looked further than that, no offence.
If you dismantle a few things it isn't as easy to put them back together...with out lying by omission.

Even: "TRUST THE GOVERNMENT AND GET YOUR DAMN SHOT!"
Is all over the internet to prove something.
Not taking into consideration the hundreds of other more sensible information and advice given my the mainstream media.
It is like listening to one crazy loon (not you, btw, just an e.g) talking of the end of the world, and ignoring the other rational people passing them by shaking there heads in bemusement - if that makes sense.

 

Those 60,000 sterilizations wouldn't have been possible without laws to allow it. Look at the people who got these laws passed in the first place, and you will see the agenda. It's pretty transparent.

 

I have not...yet

I dont know if you have noticed but her in the US on most networks Obama is GOD

The media over here would have you beleive that the whole family is a bunch of poor cave dwellers.

After 9/11 the Bin Laden family was allowed to leave on chartered flights and they went to Paris. They left without so much as being questioned. If you or I murdered someone I'm sure the police would question everybody we knew.

The Bush/Laden connection goes back to AT LEAST the late 70's or Early 80's. It has been proven many times over that Bin Laden was a CIA agent working to help dismantle the Soviet Union. I think his codename was Tim Osman.

And as soon as Obama is in office everybody starts trusting these assholes. Rahm Emanuel said it himself, "you can never let a good disaster go to waste."
And we got that stupid bitch Nancy Pelosi saying anybody that opposes spending $1 trillion on health care reform "unAmerican" Than she must think that any Americans that opposed British Imperialism (no offense) were unamerican too. Oh and Sonia Sotomayor(i cant spell her last name), from what I hear she has a criminal record of bankruptcy fraud. She said that she thinks "A hispanic female can make better decisions than a white male".
From what I hear she wrote a book on how she doesn't think that there should be a second amendment(right to bare arms). She has also stated in the past that she doesn't think people should have a right to self defense.
I can only imagine who will be put in Supreme Court next... Ronald Fucking McDonald?

Would you like a guy running your country that co authored a book with sterilization endorsements? I know you guys have a lot of your own problems in England but still

Most people would.

The mainstream media over here isn't reporting on the best ways to not get flu. Like good hygiene or What everybody's mama used to say "Go outside and get some sun or you're gonna get sick!" It's just TAKE YOUR SHOT OR DIE. TAKE YOUR SHOT OR DIE. TAKE YOUR SHOT OR DIE. TAKE YOUR SHOT OR DIE.

It's like this... what do the drug companies have to gain from telling people to take their shots? Money! What do opposing doctors have to gain from telling you not to take it? NOTHING! Surely the doctors wouldn't want their patients to die so they lose money.

My doctor is even telling his patients not to take it. And he isnt a 'conspiracy nut' either.

Like I said before, we do not have a democracy. They only let us pick witch puppet to lead us into the depths of hell.

 

I would.

Perhaps left wing networks...there is always the right.
Please don't try and convince me the whole of the US media is in love with Obama...evidence suggests a relief Obama is president, but not a complete transformation.

Evidence please.

Not true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family#The_Bin_Laden_flights

To a certain degree this point is irrelevant.
It only matters if you believe the family were involved.

So what?

Not completely true.
OBL was part of the mujhadeen, funded and trained, yes, by the CIA.
This means nothing after his transformation into a Islamic fundementalist.
Consider the amount of mujahedeen fighters "working for the CIA"...it becomes meaningless when you consider any one of them could have taken diferent paths in life.
Sadly OBL took the wrong road.

One American official, "concentrating on bin Laden is a mistake. 'The point is not the individuals,'. 'The point is that we created a whole cadre of trained and motivated people who turned against us. It's a classic Frankenstein's monster situation.'"

Crikey. You are a walking conspiracy theory website.
Please stop parroting the well formulated talking points ususaly used in these debates...it's starting to become predictable and quite boring.

Like I said, perhaps you are being unfair...your argument travels about 3 miles...while mine goes 50.

This clearly is not true.
Do you seriously want me to post the plethora of good info that the mainstream media have been giving out?

Drug companies do not want to produce vaccinations.
It does not actually make them a lot of money.
There was even a push to force drug companies to make vaccinations, by making them not responsible if anything occured to those who took it.
A fund was set up to remove most of the libel cases burden from drug companies, to the state.

As recently as 1986, the US was on the verge of losing the battle against preventable childhood diseases. The companies that produced vaccines were under serious threats of legal action because of media reports of serious injuries or death thought to be related to adverse reactions to vaccines.

The potential costs of such lawsuits were more than many vaccine companies were willing to risk, so some companies simply stopped making vaccines, resulting in serious vaccine shortages throughout the United States .

Demanding a national solution, a coalition made up of physician and public health organizations, industry, government, and private citizens developed the idea for a no-fault alternative to the tort system. This new system would reduce the tension associated with traditional civil court proceedings by having the Federal Government assume liability for injuries and deaths thought to be vaccine-related, and by allowing payment of attorneys' fees and costs to petitioners regardless of whether compensation was awarded. This became the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (the Program), which has been hailed by Secretary Shalala as the cornerstone of our Nation's successful childhood immunization programe
http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t990928b.html

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/
Another positive result of the program is that costly litigation against drug manufacturers and health care professionals who administer vaccines has virtually ceased. Although an individual who is dissatisfied with the Court’s final judgment can reject it and file a lawsuit in state or federal court, very few lawsuits have been filed since the program began. The supply of vaccines in the U.S. has been stabilized, and the development of new vaccines has markedly increased.

He has the right to give advice.

Cynic.