Worst president ever

I used to believe in that bullshit.

The democratic party used to be a little more idealistic than it is now, I think.

The reality today is that both parties are controlled by special interest groups.

The republican party is controlled by straight white men who are rich, greedy, selfish, and who will stop at nothing to gain more power and wealth.

They will throw a bone to conservatives in order to broaden their voter base.


The democratic party is controlled by feminists, gays, and minorities who are rich, greedy, selfish, and who will stop at noting to gain more power and wealth.

unions and environmental groups form a lower level interest group within the party.

They will throw a bone to poor people to broaden their voter base.


I used to think of liberals as "the good guys" and the compassionate ones, but I've come to realize that this is not the case. Most people who describe themselves as liberals break down into several categories.

1. People who support liberal policies to the extent that liberal policies are in their self-interest. Their only true ideology is self-interest

2. People who want to be seen as liberals, either because they want approval from others, or because they are afraid of retaliation if they are not liberal enough, or a combination of both

3. People who care about others in the abstract, but not in the concrete. They support societal policies that they think are idealistic, but are total assholes when it comes to their personal business and personal interactions

4. People believe that genuinely believe that liberal policies are good, and who in general try to be good people

in practice, there are many combinations of these elements

conservatives tend to break down into the same categories as well, though they tend to be the ones that care about people who are in their social reference group, and don't care about people in the abstract

there are good and evil people on both sides of the ideological divide

I used to think of myself as a liberal. Now I see myself as an ideological independent.

 

Ok, no holier than thou democrats out there

^ agree

 

Ok. There might be some truth about the civil war comment. But there are plenty of compassionate republicans and greedy asshat democrats. And vice versa. They way you (RJ) pile all republicans in one group and democrats in another, is blatantly ignorant. The democrats are controlled by the same corporations as the republicans are.

Now if you would direct your comments to the republican figureheads instead off ALL conservatives and republicans then I think your arguments would be a little more valid than they are now.

NOTE: The Republican Party has very little connection today with conservatism. Your "con" wordplay is invalid, and makes it seem like you know very little about American politics.

 

the republican/democrat parties held hugely different values than they do today. The Republicans were actually more similar to today's Democrats and vice versa

 

The truth of the matter is that those on this forum making the statements that both republicans and democrats are equally horrible candidates to run the country informs me of the very real fact that they are projecting the vile acts of the few in the party on the entire party.

My thread was not meant to take this direction, but when it comes to politics it seems that people prefer to stray. Discussing politics is far worse than religious debate, because people seem to be more adamant in discussing politics when they obviously do not care what happens within government. If voting does not matter, why even discuss it? It is like atheists going door to door, handing out pamphlets about there being no god, because the entire point of debate is not to convince someone of your lethargy but rather of your evidence. There is no evidence in not voting. In fact, the only real evidence in not voting is stating that you have no care whatsoever whether the country becomes better or worse.

 

^It isn't like that at all


Voting doesn't change anything because the people put in place are still going to be bribed and bought.

Most people also only vote every 4 years for the president. They don't take care or notice for congressional votes. Which are pretty difficult to even vote on because there is a lot less information about the candidates and important decisions are made difficult to discern who did what. And even if we were able to get rid of lifelong congress member, the new ones will still be bribed and bought.

There is a lot more wrong than just the President. Our whole government is tied into a corporate greed that no president will ever touch, and no congress member has the power to overrule.

If you really think that voting for Obama is going to 'save us' then YOU are the passive one that doesn't really care.

If you think voting is 'doing something' - I suggest you start 'doing something' by also growing your own food and looking for sustainable methods to meet your daily needs. Go to some protests, start protesting on your own. Speak loud, don't type on a forum telling people who choose not to vote, patronizing them because they "don't care what happens"

In fact, I do care, and have cared for a very large portion of my life. I have also been exhausted before the time that I could even legally vote. I see through the BS, and I know that the only way to show me "not caring" if the country goes to shit or not, is by voting.

It's a crap-shoot and unfortunately it's a 50-50 chance.

Once we get a candidate that is speaking on some truths and not some convoluted bull shit about how certain brackets of taxpayers are undeserving of blah blah blah, but who allow the ultra-rich to bypass so many taxes and actively hoard wealth - then I will vote.


My post that everyone seems to really dislike, means that I have nothing in common with these Presidents. They do not share my views and they sure as hell do not share my view on ethics. Therefor I think the majority are pretty much all equally shitty.


Your sigpic poses a really interesting question to me, because you say that I should vote. You say that I am apathetic. But your sig tells you to think outside of conventional knowledge.

Well let's see then - I'm given a choice of A or B. A isn't necessarily a good choice, but it's a hell of a lot better choice than B. So I'll vote for A!

That isn't a Democracy. That isn't even a Republic. I am supposed to be represented, if none of these people represent me - fuck my vote. I'm not going to lie and pretend that things are okay(because if I vote for A, I am stating that I am in agreement to A's policies).

 

Shouldn't that belong on the conspiracy thread? The fact of the matter is that democrats have done more for this country and the majority of the people than the republicans. The only thing the republicans care about is making sure the rich stay rich. That is a fact. When you refuse to vote, you are assuring there is one more vote for the republican and one less for the democrat. In essence. you are the same as those poor people in the bible belt who vote republican not realizing that the republicans are extorting their vote for their own gain and hurting them in the process. By not voting, you are being as ignorant as the bible belt people, because you are supporting the fact that the republicans can continue as they are doing unabated. The republicans are the corporations. You hate corporate America? By not voting, you support corporate America.

 

I don't know how many times I've already said this, but I'll say it again.
I've been an independent for the last four elections. I voted for Ralph Nader the last four times.

I voted for Clinton in 1992 because I was totally fed up with the previous twelve years of Raygun and Shrub daddy. Raygun promised to balance the budget in his first four years, but never submitted one balanced budget, and almost tripled the national debt. Shrub daddy almost doubled the national debt in only four years. Clinton is the only POTUS to give America a balanced budget, and left office with a $300 billion surplus. Shrub Jr.s destroyed the surplus in less than six months and doubled the national debt from $5.5 trillion to over $11 trillion. He wasted $3 trillion on the Iraq war, and killed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands innocent Iraqi civilians. He also destroyed not only the U.S. economy, but also the global economy. He left office with an $800 billion deficit.

Since Obama's first day as POTUS, the republicans stated goal is to make Obama fail, even at the expense of the American people. The republicans have obstructed every effort by Obama to dig us out of the hole the cons put us in.

Both parties are slaves to special interests. There are three lobbyists for every congress person and Senator. The dems take money from lobbyists that want to develop alternative energies. Cons take money from big oil, mega corporations and Wall Street banks.

But the difference in the ideologies of cons and liberals is like night and day. There is no denying that the cons are all about the interests of the rich. Liberals are about caring for the rest of the country, the poor, the elderly, the environment. Those are things the cons have been trying to demonize for the last hundred years. But don't try to suggest that I am trying to say that all Democrat politicians are saints. It's the ideologies of the two parties platforms that are the difference between greed and compassion. Liberals say help the poor and the elderly, the cons say FUCK'EM! You know it's true.

The civil unrest seen in Greece and Spain right now will come to America if the cons are brought to power. Not many of those that went through the GREAT DEPRESSION are still alive today, so people here don't know what it was like. Half of this country was out on the street begging and standing in soup lines. Crime skyrocketed and created criminals like Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde, Baby Face Nelson, and a host of others. It took three terms of FDR, and two terms of Truman to get us out of the Depression. If the cons are allowed to do it again, America won't survive. The evangelical cons think that if they create the biblical "tribulation", Jesus will come and take them to heaven. What a stupid fukin plan!

 

Woa woa woa...if you don't think that people are bribed and bought in the government, you need to do some serious research. Why do you think corporations unload money on political campaigns?

And who's to say that I would vote democratic in the first place?

I agree, Republicans tend to be shit. But so do Democrats.

Not voting supporting corporate America? No sir, I try to actively dissolve corporate America by purchasing as much local as I can, and by avoiding stores like WalMart.

Not everyone that doesn't vote, does so because they are dumb. I don't vote because I don't agree with a bi-partisan election - so why should I suggest that I agree with it and vote someone that I don't agree with into office? THAT doesn't make sense. THAT makes me a true patriot (when combined with sustainability and voting with how I spend my dollar)

 

They are. It is known to be a republican trait. In fact, the Koch brothers, among others, can be associated with buying republican precidencies. Can you name one very corporate name that intentionally purchases a democratic president?

 

How does the lack of a vote add a vote to repubs?

 

I do believe SEARS supports the Democratic party. I could look up a whole list of them, but what makes you think that corporate support is unique to the Republican party? That is an extremely narrow-minded view.

 

Realistic, not narrow minded. The democrats are for the people no matter how narrow minded people choose to believe otherwise. Republicans are only for the elite two percent. Those who donate to democrats are in essence supporting a better country, whereas those supporting republicans are only supporting themselves.

 

That's why you think it is realistic to vote a president to do the changing you want to see in this country....

 

according to opensecrets.org, these are the top corp contributors to the candidates


Barack Obama (D)
1 University of California $703,781
2 Microsoft Corp $544,445
3 Google Inc $526,009
4 Harvard University $431,860
5 US Government $396,550

Mitt Romney (R)
1 Goldman Sachs $891,140
2 Bank of America $667,139
3 JPMorgan Chase & Co $662,719
4 Morgan Stanley $649,847
5 Credit Suisse Group $554,066


Banks were a big part of Obama's 2008 campaign


let me say that I much prefer Obama to Romney, and generally democrats to republicans, but it is clear that both depend on big corporate donations

more republicans than dem's go into lobbying after they leave office, but they're both on the take

 

no, I addressed this in the post above

the dems took a shit load of money from banks

it is accurate to say that the rep's, especially in this election cycle, are getting more bank money

as for liberals being the good guys and conservatives being the bad guys, I think I addressed that in a previous post.

 

You're not very intelligent, are you?

 

Yo rat brain...all you are doing is illustrating that your intelligence is that of a slug....slimy.

 

this is just ugly. stop it, both of you!

 

You should be nicer. Slugs do not want him compared to their obviously higher intelligence.