World War III?

You'd have to be insanely dumb or insanely desperate to even post that article. It was a lame attempt at trying to jusitfy why we should no have abortions.

Simply put, the author wanted to get his point across that there'd be more mouths to feed, more cars on the road, and more unemployment had there not been abortions. Change a few words around and BANG, we have ourselves a nice pro-choice article.

Sorry, but I thought campbell had something better than that when he was refering to the "cradle will rock" article earlier. I am now stupider for having read that.

We have our rights to choose. Respect that and I'll start respecting you.

 

"We have our rights to choose."

Yes, you do have the right. The right to accept God or not (thats how God made us).... most choose to not accept Christ.... because they love sin more!

 

Surely you do not mean that most of those who do not choose Christ, do so cuz they love sin more?

Most of those who do not choose Christ do so cuz they already have a strong, equally real, true, valid faith, and have no reason to change it.

 

Exactly JesusDied, so respect my choice and stop forcing me to choose otherwise. And it's not that I love sin more, it's just I am not controled my your institutions of corruption and lies.

 

Good post MM.

I respect your choice, and your beliefs too. And also, I agree that they would do well to stop attempting to coerce others to agree with them. They could never force me to change. I doubt I will ever accept the 'died for our sins' thing. It just doesn't ring true with me. I cannot say that they are wrong, though, since I can never see their true reality. This is my reason for accepting all faiths as true, and real, and no better or worse than my faith.
The only condition I attach to my acceptance is the spirit of goodness, so anything promoting hurtful or evil things is not tolerable.

 

All I want to do when I read your stuff is shake my head because you seem to have labeled democrats or those who have the same views as them "satanists"..Now FIRST Of all..YES Scott Peterson is on trial for TWO people..because his wife was almost at full term. Therefore the baby was a BABY...who said that any of the democrats were for late term abortion?! Kerry said he was only for late term abortion, or partial birth abortion..ONLY if it endangered the mothers life..now with that being said, they are not going to abort a baby after a certain trimester..so shut up with it already..Second your percentage rates are wrong..THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL..some woman that has an abortion is going to say "IM REPUBLICAN or I'M DEMOCRAT" when they get an abortion, and if they were asked they would probably say democrat, even if they were republican because then she would be cast down by all Republicans so stop using that percentage as facts when it so obviously is not..MOST democrats are against abortions but believe America is the land of the Free, and with that comes "freedom to make choices as needed", freedom was always what America was all about..we have been stripped of this as of late. You can not stop sin, YOU keep sinning everyday when you label Democrats..You can state how you believe without labeling or judging people, you seem full of hate Campbell..that's what I see when I read your posts..You have to get over this hatred you have for democrats, just because they think people should have rights..and DEMOCRATS do not look at abortion the same way they look at African Americans, i have all kinds of African American friends and actually they are beautiful people and when I look at them i do NOT think of the color of their skin..I think of them as I do the same as whites or spanish or asian..or any other race or culture, God made us all in his own image..therefore color shouldn't be a factor in anything..and your statement is so full of lies..and to think you would have the audacity to put that in your post, pisses me off..again I do not believe in abortion, but i believe in peoples rights..and it's two totally different scenerios so stop preaching what you THINK is how the democrats believe and move on already..you make NO sense..btw, good for you for being against abortion, as an American that is your right to do so..but badmouthing, making false accusations and false judgement against thy neighbor isn't Christian at all, and GOD will punish you for this..It's one of the ten commandments that you so totally believe in. also, you are supposed to love everybody..that sir is your Christian duty, one that you are failing miserably.

 

I totally agree with everything you've said here. What is going to happen with the war then? Will it continue untill we have a new president? Will America stand for another 4 years over there? I surely hope not!!!! Will it be the beginning of the end for America?

 

Bravo!! I totally agree. I also think the church "helped" jesus to die for our sins, and kept us for decades with the only ability for salvation being THROUGH the church. Sooo many atrocities committed in the NAME of the church. Witch burning being only one. The church has potrayed women in degrading ways and even went to far as to accuse femanism as a cause for the rise in gay marriage. That coming from the catholic church just a few months ago. I feel no love for my gender or myself in the church, I feel nothing but animosity towards the church at this point in my life. What is between my god and myself, has not a damn thing to do with a building named church.

 

thanks,

I agree with all you say here too. I would surmise the rise in gay marriage is a result of peoples general acceptance increasing, thereby reducing the fear of openly admitting ones homosexuality. It is a good thing.
You and god have a relationship that neither I, nor anyone, can hope to totally know, or should know. I accept it is true, valid, and real. Nothing other than your conscience should ever tell you to change it.
I chuckle at those who would coerce others to change, since the most likely response to such pressure is resistance. They push them farther away in their attempt to 'save' them. lol

 

Oh please, are you being serious? The Early Church fathers gave us the teachings, if you don't like the sacraments, don't be in it. What other salvation way was there? There was none until the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's, so, by default, the church was the only way.

Women's rights and femenism are not the same thing. Femenists go way overboard in a lot of respects, and I don't think anyone can say otherwise. You act like the Catholic Church is the horrible evil thing, please, it has done some shitty things in the past, but its also done a lot of good. It is arguably the largest charity donor in the world as we speak. It's over 1600 years old, it is a man run institution, it's not perfect, it does have blood on it's hands, but the pope has apologized for the things it's done, and I didnt even agree with some of the things he apologized for. I wont apologize for the crusades, I refuse. If it were not for the Crusades we would be Muslim right now.

Just becasue the Church condemns radical femenism you feel out of place and animosity? Get over it. I don't agree with everything the church teaches, but a lot will change probably with the next pope. It's probable priests will allowed to be married as well with new papal rule.

 

You act like the Catholic Church is the horrible evil thing, please, it has done some shitty things in the past, but its also done a lot of good. It is arguably the largest charity donor in the world as we speak. It's over 1600 years old, it is a man run institution, it's not perfect, it does have blood on it's hands, but the pope has apologized for the things it's done, and I didnt even agree with some of the things he apologized for. I wont apologize for the crusades, I refuse. If it were not for the Crusades we would be Muslim right now.

Just becasue the Church condemns radical femenism you feel out of place and animosity? Get over it. I don't agree with everything the church teaches, but a lot will change probably with the next pope. It's probable priests will allowed to be married as well with new papal rule.
jozak
__________________

Wow, if it is so great, why does it need you defending it?
The pope just recently forgave all the young boys who were sexually molested and abused by their Catholic guardians. The victims......he forgave them? Huh?
That pissed me right off.

In the early 80's when Italy, the UK, and Switzerland were all calling for an international inquiry into the Vatican's involvement in funneling funds into Latin America to support right wing militias, (who, btw, killed Catholic priests and nuns for being socialists), they were exonerated of any wrongdoing once they paid 250 million dollars.
So they paid the 250 mill, and were absolved of any wrongdoing, so I guess they must be innocent huh?
Ah, the Crusades. we'd all be Muslim. What about the sacking, rape, and pillaging of Byzantium, by the crusaders? It was a Christian city...the pope actually did the right thing in that case, in 1204, he told them not to. They did anyway.
And the Albigensian crusade, which swept the Cathar Christians out of S. France. somewhere between 250 000 and 1 000 000 christians killed.
Those did not do much to save us from the Muslims, in my view.
I could go on.......but what good would it do.....?

 

BlackGuard, is that a quote, or did you did split into two and take two different sides in your last post? You're talking about how the church is good, then say something about the pope forgiving victims.

Can you clarify your last post a little?

 

Jozak is the author of the first part.
I start off with the

Wow, if it is.....

 

That is a really ridiculous question. That's like if you punch someone and they punch you back, you asking them, "Why did you fight back"?

What? Prove that.

Again, prove it, with a reliable source.

You just proved my point. Your right, Byzantium did get attacked by the some of the Europeans who were greedy for wealth, land, and power. The Church had no control over that, so what's your point? I even addressed this in the last post: The Catholic Church is FAR from perfect, but it gets knocked a lot of times unnecessarily with myths and lies that are absurd.

Bullshit. Not only do you give wrong numbers, you don't address the specifics of who was in the actual fighting. The Number of casualties were between 10 and 20 thousand, I know that is too much, any number is, but a far cry from 250,000 to 1 MILLION people, and the deaths of Cathars in the fighting were LESS THAN 500 people. I took European History in high school and I am in college as well, hell I am from Europe! Who are you trying to fool here? The fighting started when Pierre de Castelnau, a Roman Catholic monk, not even a fighter, was assasinated by the Cathar ruler's henchmen.

 

Are you honestly saying the Catholic Church has not sought out power and wealth?? That is the most rediculous statement I ever heard. There is alot of blood on the churches hands sir. And I didn't even talk about molestation by catholic priests..in my opinion, you kill whoever that person might have been when you molest them and child molestors should get life in prison, the same as any other murderer. How much more fucked up is that when the man that is supposed to be handling your salvation, is handling you instead?? You are right the church is "mans" institution. And it is far farrrr from perfect. Not just the "Catholic church" they are just the ORIGNIAL church, from which, the religion I grew up with and I am sure many others, stemmed from. As I said before, I feel no place for me there and don't you think that is a sad thing? Don't you feel angry to be lied to all your life, don't you feel at all bad about the lies, deciept, and murder commited in Jesus name? I do..I feel very angry. Don't tell me to "get over it". I'm entitled to my feelings, just as you are.

 

Actually, that article is from The Onion... so yeah, not true (but funny in an ironic way). But what is true is that a papal decree was issued stating that any priest that's molested a child more than once will be defrocked. Isn't once enough?



Margaret Leahy, 39, a Somerville, MA, homemaker and mother of one of the alleged seducers, expressed relief over the pope's announcement.



For months, I feared that my boy—and the dozens of others who committed sinful acts with Father Halloran before he was moved to the safety of another parish to protect him from further temptation at their pre-pubescent hands—was going to Hell for what he'd done," Leahy said. "It's the worst feeling a mother can know. But thanks to the forgiveness of the pope, my long nightmare is finally over. He was just a boy of 8 at the time. He didn't know any better. Thank you, your Holiness, for giving my poor little Timothy a second chance at redemption."
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/PopeForgives.htm

 

Uhhh.... Dur, I think I JUST SAID IN BOTH POSTS THAT THE CHURCH IS FAR FROM PERFECT AND THAT SOME ATROCOTIES WERE COMMITTED, I'M NOT TYPING CZECH AM I?? This just shows everyone how poor your reading comprehension skills are. EVERY Religion that has been around for that lenght of time is not going to have a 100% clean slate, but they have made up for it. I wouldn't let someone bash all of Islam either. As I have said before, The Church is probably one of the biggest charity donors to this planet.

What are you talking about? I did not once mention the pedophile scandals. Not one maddam. I said certain issues will change once we get a new pope in, and I used marriage for priests as an example.

Clever. Did you come up with that on your own? People are in charge of their own salvations, number one. Number two, the percentage of pedophile priests is soooooooo small it should really be a mute point. I think all pedophiles should get the death penalty. Those men are not real priests, and they insult the majoirty of good men who are trying to help their parishes their adherents, and the Church. The Church is working to fix it, what else do you want? You act like no other religious figures commit crimes against people, please, it's just socially acceptable to bash the Catholic Church in the mainstream media, the double standard is disgusting.

I don't even understand half of what you said there. The Church is run by man, it cannot be perfect. Nothing run by man is perfect. No Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Catholic, Orthodoz, Mormon, etc is perfect. They are all managed by human beings, get over it. It is the original church but guess what, Christ is not down here sitting physically in the Vatican is he???? Tell me a religion or church or anything that is more perfect, you can't, becasue nothing is perfect.

Lied about what exactly? The pedophiles? It is becasue of the HUMAN bastard bishops that covered it up, and guess what, they will answere on judgement day I am sure, and the Church is, once again, working to fix it. I could care less if you don't like it, whatever, some religions are not for everyone, but that does not give you or anyone else to make up false numbers, data, and info in order to smear a religion you have a grudge against.

 

If he cited a quote from the onion to make a truthful statement...lol.

Nope, not true, it's, "One Strike, your out."

If that is true that woman is an idiot.

 

Originally Posted by BlackGuardXIII

Wow, if it is so great, why does it need you defending it?
That is a really ridiculous question. That's like if you punch someone and they punch you back, you asking them, "Why did you fight back"? Jozak


No, it is like saying someone punched the biggest toughest guy on earth, and you ran to his defence. BG13

Quote:
The pope just recently forgave all the young boys who were sexually molested and abused by their Catholic guardians. The victims......he forgave them? Huh?
That pissed me right off.
What? Prove that. Jozak
It was all over the news a couple of months ago, I don't care if you believe me, so I could not be bothered. If you really care, you look it up. BG13

Quote:
In the early 80's when Italy, the UK, and Switzerland were all calling for an international inquiry into the Vatican's involvement in funneling funds into Latin America to support right wing militias, (who, btw, killed Catholic priests and nuns for being socialists), they were exonerated of any wrongdoing once they paid 250 million dollars.

So they paid the 250 mill, and were absolved of any wrongdoing, so I guess they must be innocent huh?
Again, prove it, with a reliable source. Jozak

A reliable source, like what, the Vatican's monthly newspaper? Again, do not care if you believe it or not. You look it up.


Quote:
Ah, the Crusades. we'd all be Muslim. What about the sacking, rape, and pillaging of Byzantium, by the crusaders? It was a Christian city...the pope actually did the right thing in that case, in 1204, he told them not to. They did anyway.
You just proved my point. Your right, Byzantium did get attacked by the some of the Europeans who were greedy for wealth, land, and power. The Church had no control over that, so what's your point? I even addressed this in the last post: The Catholic Church is FAR from perfect, but it gets knocked a lot of times unnecessarily with myths and lies that are absurd. Jozak


Just that they were a bunch of Christian Knights and crusaders that raped the Christian nuns, and robbed the Christian churches in Byzantium, to remind all that the crusades weren't all about killing Moslems. BG13

Quote:
And the Albigensian crusade, which swept the Cathar Christians out of S. France. somewhere between 250 000 and 1 000 000 christians killed.
Those did not do much to save us from the Muslims, in my view.
I could go on.......but what good would it do.....?
Bullshit. Not only do you give wrong numbers, you don't address the specifics of who was in the actual fighting. The Number of casualties were between 10 and 20 thousand, I know that is too much, any number is, but a far cry from 250,000 to 1 MILLION people, and the deaths of Cathars in the fighting were LESS THAN 500 people. I took European History in high school and I am in college as well, hell I am from Europe! Who are you trying to fool here? The fighting started when Pierre de Castelnau, a Roman Catholic monk, not even a fighter, was assasinated by the Cathar ruler's henchmen. Jozak


BS. You quote the numbers that the church itself recorded. And you may have named the spark, but the crusade had zip to do with some single monk.
It's purpose was to crush a very popular, fast growing, and civilized competitor. The Cathars were a threat to their power, because of their popularity, so they were eliminated. A crusade does not happen over a single monks murder, come on. BG 13
__________________

 

So what that means somthing should be attacked for no reason? Heck with that arguement that means on 9/11 the US should not have done anything about the Taliban and Al Queda. Your logic is not making any sense. You can't attack somthing expect no one to defend it, especially when the calims are false.

No, you made an unsubstantiated claim, I asked you to prove it, and now you want ME to prove you right. That's not how debates work. If you make a claim, you back it up, I asked you, and you refuse/cant.

Are you serious? Once again, you make an absurd claim and tell me to prove you right. Screw that, you don't even know how to debate a topic. If YOU make a statement unproven, and people ask where you got your info, it is your job to look it up; not mine, but nice try though to try and squirm out of not one, but TWO flase claims.

I wouldn't expect the Vatican newspaper, but if the Pope DID Say it, that would not be an unreliable source, since, after all, HE LIVES AND RUNS the Vatican.

Olay, what does this have anything to do with the Church? The church did not tell them to do that, those people were assholes, so what does this have to do with the discussion? You know how many Catholics Henry VIII had killed, or how many Jews and German peasants Martin Luther supported the killing of? This proves nothing about a religion.

The first World War's vilocent started right after the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand, did it not? That was not to sole reason, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I did not quote the "Church's numbers"--I'll show you where I got my numbers from:


http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/albigens.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade