womyn are tools?

Ahhh I see! Why didn't you say so in the first place?

Of course I get your point that just because you feel like making a joke of the debate and the situation - I should respond in a similar way.. Of course!

You are quite an amusing clown.

You hate feminists. That's ok... I understand. You don't have to support feminine issues at all.

 

So that is the overall focus of this thread is it?

So why wasn't it titled: "Feathers is in a shitty mood" ?

I figured it was a discussion about sexism?

Haha I really missed the point of this thread completely, right?

If you pay for my holiday then I will take one.

 

So by me saying i concentrate on other things rather than feminism, this mean i hate feminists. Yep, that makes sense you twit. Gees

 

It was a joke! Get over yourself!



I am in a bad mood though. Firstly because of debates like this. Secondly because of the usual crap that life brings.

 

From the Hip Forums Guidlines. This is for everybody. Insults are not a good debating skill, and it will stop now.

Keep to the topic at hand, please.

Warnings given all around. Let's keep it civil.

 

Maybe I was too hard on you, Feathers. I really don't know who you are, and I will try to avoid attacking your character. This is, after all, a "women's issues" forum, and I don't want to upset the nest as I have done before with my un-PC views.

So far what I have gotten from you are two things: (1) women live in a violent world, which should change for the better, and (2) women should not be stereotyped.

Honestly, I think about issues of sex and sexism all of the time, so I will give my thoughts on these two issues.

(1) I honestly feel men have certain objective advantages over women that are not likely to change over a long, long time. Men are physically stronger and sexually dominant. Men are thus going to exert power over women in just about any society. When a man and a woman are together the man can use the woman as a sex object and her very existence as a woman makes her into an object for his gratification: in fact her very body design was made to gratify the senses of the opposite sex. This reality is so fixed that women base a lot of their self-esteem on how attractive they appear to the opposite sex (not just because men make it so, as some feminists claim).

On the other hand, women are not necessarily slaves, which implies being forced to do something against their will: women are attracted to men, they enjoy being submissive, and they have the power to choose which man (or men) to have sex with.

This is of course an oversimplification. Many women rise up in society and can exert power over men in numerous ways (e.g., today some women are CEOs of corporations).

(2) Stereotypes often have some basis in reality. In general, women are physically weaker, more emotional, more attached to children, more sensitive, etc. Not all women are this way, and certainly not all feminists (in fact feminists have their own stereotypes to deal with, not all of them good).

Getting rid of the violence toward women and stereotypes is just not going to happen by debating in a forum like this with people who are, largely by choice, out of the chain of decision-making and ethical leadership in society. While a lot of this can be changed with positive conditioning, especially to children while they are young, a lot is (in my view at least) rooted in biology. You can't change the fact that women are submissive and represent passivity, or the fact that one sex has a higher level of testosterone. Maybe in the next few decades or centuries humans will be genetically engineered in a more positive direction, but for now the relations between the sexes are likely to remain as they have been since the beginning of time.

 

I love giant tiger. I didn't know shitty things happened there.

 

Maybe those in a bad mood, consequently have ago at others while ignorant, should leave the forums alone until calmer. I laughed all the while though Truthfully, i've had tougher debates in primary school, not a big deal.

 

Not a bad idea. I can close the thread, but there were some good ideas at the beginning. Feathers and others did bring out some good points, but in a rather long winded manner (not a forum infraction, by any stretch, but people tend not to read really long posts, but I've been guilty of them myself.) Or I can "Prune" the thread, which is a pain in the ass.

No more attacks. I mean it. And if you have already said something DON'T continue to say it again and again (there are, of course, reasons to occasionally do this,but doing it over and over is a drag, man.) That will get posts deleted.

 

Agreed. Long posts are a pain and are less likely to be read

 

You really can't stop with the sarcasm can you?

Blaming me because I read your anti-feminist statement in the only sane way it could be read is pretty arrogant as well as stupid. And yes - I've had tougher debates also with people here who can at least argue over the issue at hand rather than trying to insist that a piece of cheese was really a piece of cake.

You seem to have developed some kind of personal grudge/vendetta. That is hardly mature.

 

Vendetta? grudge? Where the hell did that come from. I forget what i write as soon as i post. Get over it. It's just a light hearted forum or is supposed to be mate.

 

"Maybe I was too hard on you, Feathers. I really don't know who you are, and I will try to avoid attacking your character. " - There is no maybe about it. Your wording was very carefully structured to suggest to the forum that my arguments were not to be taken seriously and that I was a crank. The problem with that isn't just that it's an unfair attempt to suppress someone's views - it also assumes and implies that your judgement is sound and representitive of the truth. Whereas it is simply subjective and based on your view which cannot be guaranteed to have any real validity.

"So far what I have gotten from you are two things: (1) women live in a violent world, which should change for the better, and (2) women should not be stereotyped." - Yes. But I also think that men shouldn't be stereotyped either. It's not fair to insist that one behaves fairly and the other not. I have been pro-feminist throughout this thread but I have also stated at times that I don't believe it's fair to judge all men either (or the majority). We can look at the history of men versus women but not in an accusing way. Rather to learn from that history.

"Men are physically stronger and sexually dominant. Men are thus going to exert power over women in just about any society." - My overall objection is that some men don't make any allowences for women. Because the particular male has a personal grudge against some women then he believes it's acceptable to condemn all women. Irongoth for example - came to this debate with that attitude. That was the reason I objected. His entire anti-female arguments were based around the idea that because a particular event had happened (i.e. Lizzie Borden murdering men) - that was somehow proof that all women were the same. I reacted to his aggressive anti-female tone that was evident in each and every post.

"Stereotypes often have some basis in reality. In general, women are physically weaker, more emotional, more attached to children, more sensitive, etc. " - Which supports my statement about the female collective history leaning more towards these qualities, yes? So if the female collective history leans more towards compassion and love then we clearly understand that the male leaning is towards violence. My argument isn't that all men are violent or the cause of the problem... It is that male history leans towards violence and female history leans towards peace. Irongoth's (for example) whole attitude is that we should not look at male violence - we should only consider the negativity of women. That was the reason I became so angry. I have met any number of males with this same attitude over the past year. I even have a best friend (a musician) who displays this same attitude of ignoring male faults/violence and criticising women every opportunity.

I know that not all men are like this (not necessarily the majority either). I'm just reacting on a personal level to those I've met on forums like this one.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your views clearly LSDseeker. It also seems to be more productive when we aren't calling each other names as well!

Ultimately I believe in equality for male and female regardless of the physical differences.