Will Wikileaks Inspire More Revolutions?

love-laughter · Jan 18, 2011

@lunaverse.

Yup much better.
Should also add " U.S.A " the United Sheep of America

TheMadcapSyd · Jan 18, 2011

Look at me with my witty wordplay.

reb · Jan 18, 2011

lunarverse said:

I enjoy democracy, I enjoy the idea of a government that protects, cares for and makes it's citizens proud.

We do not have that government.
Click to expand...

in reading our history, i don't think we have ever had 'that government'. we have had individuals, or some groups of individuals who had 'the public interest' in mind....when the power structure changed, this changed. corruption in our government goes back to pre-revolutionary times. apparently, as time goes on, x says 'well, y got away with this...i bet i can get away with this +'. when that happens, the snowball gathers momentum. for example, the history of WWII is filled with people who got rich selling to the military, not always in an upright fashion, but not always completely 'provable' either.

it's simply sad to me when it reaches the levels that it has now; perhaps it's simply far more visible. don't know. can't change it. can only influence things very close to me.

skip · Jan 18, 2011

I can't believe how fast this is all playing out! The diplomatic world can't even keep up with events unfolding in Tunisia and elsewhere in the Arab world. With protests spreading across North Africa (Egypt, Libya, Algeria) and elsewhere this could catch fire! Where else might it spread to?

What's amazing at the moment is how well connected all protesters are becoming via social media. They are tracking events in Tunisia all over the Arab world, in arabic, so it's inspiring many oppressed people to rise up. If more do it, it will spread just as it did in Eastern Europe in the last decade.

Kitchee · Jan 18, 2011

тоже интересует данная тема.. -------------------

TheMadcapSyd · Jan 18, 2011

NYT has an article showing the differences in situation between Tunisia, and Algeria/Egypt, the two countries most people have been looking at as the next possible revolution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/world/africa/19egypt.html?_r=1

CAIRO — From the crowded, run-down streets of Cairo to the oil-financed halls of power in Kuwait, Arab leaders appear increasingly rattled by the unfolding events in Tunisia and elsewhere in the Arab world, where men continued to set themselves on fire — two more in Egypt on Tuesday, and a third who was stopped.

Though the streets of Cairo, Algiers and other Arab cities around the region were calm, the acts of self-immolation served as a reminder that the core complaints of economic hardship and political repression that led to the Tunisian uprising resonated strongly across the Middle East.

“You have leaders who have been in power for a very long time, one party controlling everything, marginalization of the opposition, no transfer of power, plans for succession, small groups running the business, vast corruption,” said Emad Gad, a political scientist at the Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies. “All of this makes the overall environment ripe for an explosion at any second.”

But while there is widespread anticipation about a revolutionary contagion, particularly in Egypt and Algeria, where there have been angry and violent protests, political analysts said that each country is different, making such conclusions premature. Egypt lacks the broad and educated middle class of Tunisia, while in Algeria the middle class failed to join the angry young men in rioting, regional experts said.

In Jordan, an Islamist opposition party, the Islamic Action Front, issued a demand that the offices of prime minister and other high officials be made elective instead of appointive, as they are now. But like the other outbursts, it quickly died away.

“For all the sound and fury, it doesn’t look like much political dividend will come out of what happened in Algeria, in the short term,” said Hugh Roberts, an independent scholar and a specialist on North Africa based here. “It looks like it has gone quiet. It was a big blast of angry, hot air, but in an unfocused way, which leaves most things the same.”

So for now, the most pronounced impact from the unexpected Tunisian uprising is a lingering sense of uncertainty. That is itself either unnerving or exhilarating, depending on one’s perspective, in a region sitting on the fault lines of religious strife, political repression and economic uncertainty, experts said.

“We did not expect Tunisia to go the direction it has. Who had Tunisia on the mind a few weeks ago?” said Amr Hamzawy, research director with the Carnegie Middle East Center in Beirut. “The ingredients are partially there for it to happen again, but we just do not know.”

Some Arab leaders have ordered security crackdowns to keep calm in the streets, and offered some symbolic gestures. In Syria, President Bashar al-Assad backed off the imposition of austerity measures. In Kuwait, the emir doled out money.

In Egypt, where organizers are calling for a nationwide protest on Jan. 25, officials struggled to project a sense of calm and normalcy, while stepping up talk of economic reform and government accountability. Arab leaders have also said they will focus on combating unemployment when they meet later this week at an economic summit meeting in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el Sheik.

Fahmy Howeidy, an Egyptian political expert and newspaper columnist, said that while he did not believe conditions were ripe for a similar uprising in Egypt, the government was keenly aware that “what happened in Tunisia has definitely created a different atmosphere. It convinced people that they can revolt in the streets, and that these regimes are not as strong or as mighty as they appear.”

Before the riots in Tunisia turned into a mass uprising against the rule of the longtime autocratic president, Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali, it appeared that either Egypt or Algeria stood a greater chance of some kind of mass public revolt. For years, both have suffered from sclerotic political systems led by aging presidents, with support from the military. For years, both have confronted protests over difficult economic conditions and widespread youth unemployment.

But Mr. Hamzawy noted that in Tunisia the middle class and the trade unions joined protests that initially broke out over economic complaints, and helped transform the discontent into calls for political change. In Egypt, where the leadership continues to rely on a decades-old emergency law that allows arrest without charge, there is a lot of room for free and critical speech, offering a safety valve for expression that did not exist in Tunisia, he said.

In Egypt, he said, the array of interests that benefit from corruption is much wider than in Tunisia, where it was restricted to a small circle around the president. That, he said, means there are more people with an interest in preserving the system. And finally, he said, the military in Tunisia was not politicized and did not have any experience in securing city streets, unlike in Egypt, where the military has risen to the government’s defense before, and most likely would again. In addition, Mr. Hamzawy said that the protests that have racked Egypt recently have mostly been by workers for economic reasons, and that the government effectively bought them off with concessions before they began making political demands.

In Algeria, Mr. Roberts said, there are two primary differences with Tunisia that make comparisons imperfect. The first, he said, was that in Tunisia the riots spread all over the country and eventually involved different elements of society all on the same side. “That gave the movement its moral power,” he said.

By comparison, he said, “In Algeria, that never happened. There was no real support from trade unions, in fact none at all as far as one can see, and there was a good deal of middle class hostility to them because of the destruction. The guys rioting were desperate, angry young men with no political perspective at all.”

But more fundamentally, he said, Algeria is not as repressive as Tunisia was. “It is not an autocracy, it is an oligarchy,” he said, explaining that in addition to the president, Abdelaziz Bouteflika, there are multiple power centers, like the military, the intelligence services and the elite bureaucrats. That, he said, meant that unlike in Tunisia there is no one target of public ire, and no public sense that protests would help to dislodge those at fault.

“Even though Bouteflika is unpopular, people know their problems do not simply come down to him,” he said. “You have a situation where there is a great deal of discontent, including in the middle class, but no one has any prescription for how to deal with it.”
Click to expand...

diggorydoo · Jan 23, 2011

Work is being done from the ground, up. Don't trust the Unions, they are already infiltrated, with few, if any exceptions. Of course the Internet is infiltrated too But, be brave! Wake up and share what you know by word of mouth with your trusted friends and families. Ask them to do the same. Be disobedient, but stay within the Law if you can. Be peaceful and do not kill! (only exception being to defend your life if your life is important to you, which i suspect it is) Change your lifestyle as and when you can. Truth is, worst case scenario is that you may have to be prepared for a VERY bompy ride. (Understatement ) History has shown that to be the case. Plenty are prepared for just that. Movements have been around for many years but progress has been very slow. Momentum is growing at last, especially in light of Wikileaks.

Your life is in your hands. Your power is in your truth and also in your action. May your intent shine and light your way. :2thumbsup:

skip · Jan 27, 2011

Reports indicate that the Egyptian and Yemeni protests are mostly youth driven. The political factions are on the sidelines, pretty much powerless to do or say anything about what is happening.

Piney · Feb 1, 2011

Skip said:

So do you think Wikileaks has the potential to inspire more people to rebel against their corrupt governments or was this just a one-off?

Wikileaks Revolution Scorecard

#1. Jasmine Revolution, Tunisia, January 2011.
#2. Revolution, Egypt, January 2011.
#3. ????
#4. ????
#5. ????

I wonder who will be Revolution #9....
Click to expand...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703989004575653260680467120.html?KEYWORDS=Kirchner

This Opinion piece from December 6th states that a Wilkileaks item has implicated The First Family of Argentina in Money laundering.

Retired President Nestor Kirchner died in October, 2010. His Spouse: Cristina Kirchner is the currrent President of Argentina.

Buenos Aires is troubled by street clashes with squatters who have taken over buildings and a park.

Can Cristina Kirchner hold it together without her late husband and political partner?

Logan 5 · Feb 1, 2011

Q: How long until the revolutions come to the US?

A: Not soon enough!

Someone has to take the first step. I'm just not sure what it takes for the first step to get things rolling here.

_zero_ · Feb 1, 2011

The only thing I worry about is the opportunity that revolution creates for more countries to fall under the control of Islamic fundamentalism.

skip · Feb 11, 2011

Check out the thread with the upcoming revolution schedule for this weekend! It's chock full of revolutions (at least 4).

Padme · Feb 11, 2011

_zero_ said:

The only thing I worry about is the opportunity that revolution creates for more countries to fall under the control of Islamic fundamentalism.
Click to expand...

Me too, there are some people who think that the Egyptian revolution is like the 1979 Iranian revolution were a CIA backed dictator was overthrown and replaced by a theocracy. It's sad that these people still think the Iranian revolution was a positive thing and that theocracy can do no wrong. Communism with its elimination of religion and Theocracy with its enforcement of religion are two sides of the same coin. Who the hell wants to live under Sharia law and other religious based laws? Stephan Colbert was right on that one!

midgardsun · Feb 27, 2011

Rothschild, wikileaks and the middle east uprisings
http://www.puppet99.com/

RooRshack · Feb 28, 2011

midgardsun said:

I'm totally fucking bonkers, and you should be too! Also, nazi concentration camps where really more like mandatory health spas, the allies blew the whole "gas chamber-mass graves-witness accounts-photos during the war-evil genius on meth" thing way out of proportion.
Click to expand...

Yeahhhhh....

odon · Feb 28, 2011

nazi concentration camps where really more like mandatory health spas
Click to expand...

:spam::icon_bs:

midgardsun · Feb 28, 2011

lol I didnt write that, somebody hacked my account- where was that written?

odon · Feb 28, 2011

midgardsun said:

lol I didnt write that, somebody hacked my account- where was that written?
Click to expand...

Somebody agreed, which is the sad part.

Does your account get hacked a lot?

The Imaginary Being · Feb 28, 2011

it was his cat goebbels.

The Imaginary Being · Feb 28, 2011

arriva trains are on strike. those four or so people in wales cannot get to work... pesky revolution.

Log in or Sign up

Will Wikileaks Inspire More Revolutions?

love-laughter Member

TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

reb Member

skip Founder Administrator

Kitchee Guest

TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

diggorydoo Guest

skip Founder Administrator

Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Logan 5 Confessed gynephile Lifetime Supporter

_zero_ Newbie

skip Founder Administrator

Padme Member

midgardsun Senior Member

RooRshack On Sabbatical

odon Slightly Popular

midgardsun Senior Member

odon Slightly Popular

The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

Log in or Sign up

Will Wikileaks Inspire More Revolutions?

love-laughter Member

TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

reb Member

skip Founder Administrator

Kitchee Guest

TheMadcapSyd Titanic's captain, yo!

diggorydoo Guest

skip Founder Administrator

Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Logan 5 Confessed gynephile Lifetime Supporter

_zero_ Newbie

skip Founder Administrator

Padme Member

midgardsun Senior Member

RooRshack On Sabbatical

odon Slightly Popular

midgardsun Senior Member

odon Slightly Popular

The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

Useful Searches