Why the Christian/Judeo/Islamic God?

He is a reader of the old testament of the Bible. That's how all the other prophesy follows.

 

Off Topic

 

"Knowledge comes from experience, if you experience something, you should be able to define it, conceptualize it, thus you truely "know" it. If you can't define it, then how can you know "what" you experienced?"


I say to you that I can not define that which is beyond/prior to definition,
the question I asked you is a question that points to that which is beyond definition.

 

An obvious attempt at a bait & switch to avoid answering his question.

I wonder.... if everything in your world has to be experienced through the dry and analytical realm of definitions (or else you deny their very existence), no wonder you think love is merely a chemical reaction in the brain. No wonder you vehemently shut away anything that doesn't fit into your narrowly defined margins of what life is or can be about.

But the thing that underlies it all is not a question of philosophy, but a question of personal pain. What happened to you that you turned off your emotions and shut away your heart so completely?

 

Look, this thread is about Christianity, not some new age BS so I choose to remain on topic. If you (Kamino & Blues) wish to discuss the mind, start a new thread. If you have something to contribute to "Why Christianity" then fine, I'll entertain your posts in that regard.

And nothing has "happened" to me. My emotions are always on, and my heart, which is nothing but a muscle, is fine as well. Just because I can show that Love is nothing but chemical reactions, doesn't mean I don't experience love, in fact I do. I just happen to be honest with myself in the realization that I know what emotions are, electro-chemical reactions in the brain. Yes it takes away from all the poetry and prose' of the term, but it doesn't mean I still can't or don't experience it. I do. You asked me to define it, and I did. Please stay on the topic of "Why Christianity" or start a new thread.

 

hehe, i'm afraid you missed the point entirely

i'll leave quietly though

 

... that's because of an interesting mind trick involving circular reasoning where asking philosophical questions while already thinking you know the answer and setting up limits such that if the answer (which you think you know already) actually existed outside those limits then you'd never have to deal with it and thus answer the question you never really wanted to know in the first place. phew! that was a mouthful.

nu-uh... you already SAID you're leaving.

I'm leaving too. LOUDLY though!

 

Why the God in a linear development of lineage of generations? Or what is this God trying to create in the name of createdness for all of us. I believe it's just to bring out the ego's each one of has, and that we won't be able to relinquish.

I cried death to the Ego, but then maybe the Ego can have some other personality development in the terms of fate where chance will blossom for another light of Day.

 

This is just a matter of fact, and well pointed, too. Although, Jehovah (he's better known under this name, than CJIS) IS well enough recognized and understood by one group -- the group of his faithful followers. You, probably, have already met them; if not yet, then to be sure you will, for these don't wait for the people to come to them, but go out to the people instead -- just as Jehovah told them.

Do you mean that it should be simple for all to agree about the one true god in case he really existed? Is that your question here?
Yeah, it would be necessarily simple for all to agree about this -- if it was God's will to make everyone see Him (God) as He is.
Another, an equally good question would be:
-- And what if it was God's will to leave us some space for personal freedom in this matter? So that we could love him out of free will? Could he make up for that without losing His power and control of the situation?
Well, the answer must necessarily be "yes". I mean, if He really exists, eh? If He is really Almighty, eh?
I think this is an obvious consequence.
So, you see, this one only proves (to me) that the Almighty God (whom I believe to be so) is powerful enough and sure of His control of the situation well enough, to afford it to allow for some freedom in this regard, he-he. At least for some reasonable period of time.
He necessarily must be capable of such thing, if He really is The Creator, The Almighty.

Ah, you see, He really is NOT such tyrant that would not allow your questioning, is he? But how would it be, if there WAS such word or other thing, that would make you and others like you and me and all of us just shut up our questioning mouths?
Are you sure you would welcome a tyrant self-imposing God as would thus make himself a (dreadful!) reality for you in every thing you meet on your way?
Or a loving and gentle and humble (yes, even humble) God, as would let you live your life without a constant feeling of being watched and checked, would have more appeal to you? The one who allows freedom for you with good explanations as to how to use it to your benefit?

You think, you reason, you see and understand the order in this world to the point of using it to your advantage. What caused this order? What caused your being and your ability to understand? What (or who?) planned, provided for and triggered this chemical reactions in your body, to which you refer?
Now the Bible is the best explanation to these, but would not make so much sense by itself. Here I agree.

He has said many words to many, to be sure. He actually talks to everyone -- directly or indirectly; but obviously, many are too busy with other things so they would bother to pay attention.
However, may I ask you: what do you want to hear from God? Is there something you really want to hear from Him? Or do you have a special question you'd like to ask Him? The one, to answer which it is necessary for God to speak to you personally? Something that only God can tell you? Such thing, which it is not for you to decide? Or do you want to know Him closer and need a personal interview for that reason?
Well, if you really need one of these things, you need but ask, and He will speak to you, too. You see, this is the way God "compensates" for his NOT being a self-imposing-personality tyrant kind of god.
(Just as you "stipulate" and make statements, I think I can also do that.)

 

I consider myself to be a Christian because I admire the teachings and example of Jesus, as he's portrayed in scripture. I believe in the divine because I find it to be the most plausible explanation for a wide variety of phenomena from the finely tuned universe to life to the religious experiences of lots of folks such as myself. I don't believe that our only understanding of any god is through scriptures, and most of those many other gods you mention were not based on scriptures. I think that reason and faith (intuitive risk-taking)are more important sources of religious knowledge than scripture. As for why the Christian/Judaic/ Islamic God rather than others, to me it's all the same divine presence-- Higher Power, Great Mystery, The Force, the Ground of Being, SBWOT ("Something Big Within and Out There"), or whatever. I regard the many gods that you mention over the course of human history as evidence of a persistent human sense of this presence, which to me is another reason to make the leap of faith. Does the fact that so many people throughout the ages believe in the divine presence prove that it's wrong, just because they disagree about particulars? Faith (intuition-based risk-taking) is a necessity, a precondition to logic, science, experience, and Hip Forums. There can be no real knowledge, even of experiences, without it.

 

What makes you think I care? I don't feel the need to be absolutely sure of anything. If I'm wrong and there is no God, I haven't ruined my life by following the ONLY true Christian teaching: love and respect other people.

 

Language is the main medium people use to transmit knowledge and experience. That's what Scripture is. Dismissing it, as you do, does impose an enormous handicap on rational discussion.

 

Excellent point! Thank you, infinito. Rather than ruin anybody's life, this rule "treat others the very way you want others to treat you" would be an ultimate solution to ALL the problems of humankind, if followed by all. Isn't that why it's called "a golden rule"?

Back to the point of the OP: really, people come to some basic conclusions about God without any scriptures. They conclude, that He 1)exists 2) is powerful 3) is wise .
Some, who dig further into it, conclude, that He must be merciful, loving and caring. Some others disagree; they say a merciful god would not tolerate so much evil and suffering. They also say a powerful god would be powerful enough to stop people from disobeying him.
So you see, Itsdarts, there are questions, to which we cannot get answers just by studying the nature and by mere meditation. We want to know the purpose of this complicated creation with us humans as part of it. Want to know why we die and suffer, and have at the same time ability to dream of life without suffering and death. Want to know why we make mistakes, when our best intentions lead to worst results at times. And that happening to us intelligent creatures.
This is why we need a revelation from God himself. They call them "scriptures"; if you find in such "scriptures" a satisfying answer to the questions just mentioned, then these are indeed from God. THAT IS WHY THE GOD OF THE BIBLE IS THE ONE I CHOSE.

And without such book you will never go any further than just knowing the basics: that this world has its beginning, that there are laws in it, and the such.

 

Nicely stated.
The problem is you didn't follow Itsdarts stipulation that you not use the Bible. No, you didn't quote it but you used it none the less. That why I've pointed out to Itsdarts that his stipulation against using the Bible does not allow a proper discussion of this topic.

 

Ha-ha. Well, he says among his other "stipulations", that

Let's start by stating, dear Itsdarts, that not all ARE interested in finding "the one true god". I strongly believe this to be the reason why it is NOT pretty simple for all to agree on "the one true god".

Some are interested in making their dreams a reality, regardless of how dearly others will have to pay for it. Others are creating gods for themselves from their own imagination, and so they don't actually need a god, they only want to worship and idolize their own dreams and desires. Others still feel they are better off without any god at all; so these are gods to themselves, and thus belong to the previously mentioned group.
I think you will agree that these are not interested to "agree about "the one true god""; neither is it possible for them.
Well, it's their right, isn't it? Freedom of conscience and worship, right? Neither me, nor any other human being has any right to criticize their position.


And those, who are interested to agree about the one true god will not be satisfied with just any evidence; they need convincing evidences. And since we humans, for better or for worse, have this gift of intelligence and thinking, which is linked to the gift of speech, we also need to have some evidence in words. Isn't this logical?

Yes, the understanding of god is not without language, as our very thinking process is not without language. Every understanding we have is not without language.

 

Not until I read this book and see what you have to say. Who knows? Maybe you present some facts that will make me look at it from a totally different perspective? But remember first, I have ready many such books. And my results are still in favour of the Bible, rather than against it.

Have you read any Veda? Or all of them? If you have, you probably noticed, that Vedas don't even pretend to be the truth about the one true god. The rishis say in these hymns, that they composed these with "their own ability and knowledge", rather than by godly inspiration. Vedas are rather full of questions, than full of answers; Buddha called them a "pathless jungle". So, that's why.

But do you mean to say here by all your arguments, that a book can't make you wiser, can't add anything to your knowledge? I assume, however, that you are an educated man and probably read more than one book. So, why such hatred for book as a source of information about god?

Can you learn math without books? If you can't , does it mean there is no proof that math really works or even exists?
But you learn it, the books help in the process, and then when you've learned it, you agree with other math students about certain statements, theorems, consequences. And the practical application shows that math is a real thing.

 

to say you believe in the bible is one thing, but to say that the bible is proof of god is completely wrong.

and the reason there are many gods is simple, different cultures from different geographical areas came up with different fairy tales to entertain themselves.

 

It depends much on who are our teachers in the Bible. Some are so bad at it, that it would be better to just not study the Bible at all, then study with them.

The Bible states the same about death -- the only religious book saying there is NO life after death!
BTW, did your teachers in the Bible, Lutheran of Baptist, show you this in the Bible? If not, they missed one of the most important teachings, and that because of the false doctrine of their church. Then I shouldn't be surprised to learn they failed to teach you many other important things from the Bible, which explains to me your present dissatisfaction with it.

Sherlock Holmes could see evidence where others couldn't . It wasn't fantasy, for he applied it practically with great success. Such is the power a good bible study gives: you can see cause and consequence when you learn how to use the Bible for that purpose. You will have no doubt as to how to explain this or that, when you are educated. And that, not because your teacher said so, but because you know that by experience -- like math or physics or other practical science. This is what I call a good bible study.

 

hello aguest, i dont think that you have fully addressed Itsdart's issue which is a major problem with religion.

Itskarts stated that there is a lack of evidence for things which could be considered supernatural that happend in the bible. These supernatural phenomenon which im talking about include, flying angels, flaming swords, humans living for upwards of 500 years, coming back to life after dying, not to mention countless miracles performed by jesus.

if you really believe in the bible then how do you explain this?

also, if you really believe that all these magical things happend, then how do you dismiss other gods like zeus, or RA??

and if all these miracles happend in the bible, why dont we see anything like this nowadays??

The most obvious answer would be that the bible, like the stories of zeus and ra, is fictional. BUT, just because its a fictional story, it does serve a purpose (just like the legends of zeus and ra) and that is to teach lessons of morality ect.

 

Why, thank you for making this more clear for me. Really, the way the issue was stated I had problems in understanding it that clear.

Why, these are good questions and asked many times before - by them bible critics.

Before I do, I beg your pardon, Itsdarts, if what follows is NOT what you wanted. Just the questions are good and are very well addressed in the Bible and correspond with the real life, too.
Flying angels and flaming swords appeared when there was such need. I know, that won't give you much, but there's no other.
Humans lived more than 500 years as they were closer to the perfect state, in which Adam was created. When Adam rejected God's authority (by what he did), his perfection was gone and he became subject to death. But the deterioration wasn't so fast. That's why his children still had longer lives for some time. Mark you, that this motive of the perfect beginning is present in ALL the myths of other people. The problem is, the churches don't clearly understand the issue of sin and death as resulting from Adam's deliberate act of disobedience, neither the significance this act had for us Adam's descendants. These, however, are quite clearly presented in the letter to Romans(no Bible quotation, sorry).
Coming back to life and miracles by Jesus were meant to show what God is planning to do in the future globally: resurrect the dead, bring us all back to perfection according to his original purpose; do away with all suffering and oppression. To put it short, God has planned to do away with all the consequences of Adam's disobedience. This we could rightly expect from him, too, Almighty and Wise and Loving as we believe him to be.
Why, then, did the loving God allow these? So that we could see what kind of existence it is without God's guidance. He didn't want to deny the right of free choice, but then he wouldn't try to correct the bad results of a wrong choice. Why should he?
It is not the Bible that's bad; it is many of those who tried to interpret it, failed to do it correctly because of prejudice and false doctrines they didn't want to dismiss. Thus "explained", the Bible becomes nothing more, than another clumsy effort to make ends meet ... Obviously, you can't expect to find the Bible to be in harmony with every human teaching; it will only be in harmony with the teaching of the Bible, which, however, explains everything.

Because the way things are presented in the Bible is way more convincing: it is accurate historically, scientifically, giving a practical wisdom that WORKS. Can you (or anyone) say that about the myths of Zeus or RA? I'm afraid, no one can even reproduce them correctly these days...

Good one! Let me ask you back: it is obvious, that man once was created somehow; that life somehow appeared out of the "dead" matter far back in the past. Obviously, this happened once, and everyone calls it a miracle, for we have no idea of how it was possible, neither can duplicate it. But why does it NOT happen over and over again? Can you tell me that? Yes, you can. It is because there is no such need anymore, for life reproduces life quite successfully.
This world was once created in a mighty wonderful way (we admit now there was a beginning), but it doesn't happen these days, alas. You are not asking me why, are you? And why not? Bible or no Bible -- why not?...
And mobile phones, computers, TV, aircraft -- these never happened before in history. Even the Bible doesn't mention these. Do you think all these are just fiction, or a miracle? No; you will tell me, that these devices just use the principles, unknown in the former times. Well, the miracles of the Bible are based on the principles unknown to you and me; therefore we call them miracles.

(EDITED)It might seem obvious to me, seeing that the above questions all have satisfying answers, not devoid of common sense, sound logic and scientific approach, is , that those, who dismiss the Bible, do it, (EDITED AND ADDED)perhaps, JUST BECAUSE they don't like the lessons of morality it teaches. (ADDED)When it speaks, it speaks strongly, unlike many other "scriptures", and this may be irritating to some. However, is it not good, that this book speaks very definitely and exactly about the matters of importance?
To like/dislike the Bible is everyone's natural right and choice. But few state openly why they really don't like the book.(END OF EDITED PART)