Why the Christian/Judeo/Islamic God?

Please show one thing that can be construed as my proselytizing in this tread.

Please show one thing that can be construed as my witnessing in this tread.

Please show one time I quoted the Bible or even asked to quote the Bible in this thread.

You are simply reading into peoples answers what you want to read and not bothering to actually understand what is being said.

PS Thanx for the refresher on the Forum rules. Perhaps next time you can point out where you think I've violated them, just for educational purposes.

PSS I couldn’t help but notice that you didn’t show the Forum rule to support your statement: “this IS a debate forum”. I’d like to see that, if you wouldn’t mind.

 

because it instinctually makes sense to the westernized mind

 

Yes you can make all the stipulations you want but if you actually want a discussion the stipulations have to be realistic.

Instead of be being whiners, perhaps people are just pointing out that the stipulations that you have made are a bit constrictive, in this case it’s little like you’ve said: I want you to reasonably and logically show me why you believe this but you can’t use any reasonable and logical arguments.

Personally, I’ve been trying to work around all the stipulations to try and discuss this with you but I imagine that for most, it’s just too much work to bother.

 

Yes there is and without quoting the Bible but your blanket ban of the Bible in this thread does not allow one to discuss it.

 

See that wasn't too hard, you explained your rational reasons to why you are a christian without actually quoting the bible or saying "the bible says this and that". I have no problems with people who feel they've been helped because of the teachings of Christianity. However, what I do have a problem with is other people who've been helped by the teachings of other god type and non-god type religions as well. These anecdotal stories of people helping themselves with other religions (as well as Christianity) show that there is more than one path to self help, but in no way can one honestly conclude that what ever they learned was the doings of that particular god. The bible isn't proof of a god, its a philosophy for living, one of many philosophies. So basically what you're saying is that it worked for you and thats fine, I understand this. I didn't work for me, even though I did give it my best shot. What you read is what others a long time ago figured out and until you read it, possibly couldn't figure out for yourself.

Ultimately what I'm saying is, the Hindu finds peace with his gods, the Wiccan finds peace with his gods and goddesses and Buddhists find peace with the teachings of the non-god Buddha. None of this "peace finding" is any proof or even evidence of any of these gods.

My personal story of finding peace lies in the knowledge I gain about the natural world we live in here and now. I know i can rely on friends and family for support during hard times and that no amount of reading the bible or any other ancient text can do that for me. I know natually that its wrong to harm others and I know naturally that I don't like being harmed. I know that if I help others in need, that someday, someone might help me, you know, the ole, what goes around comes around line of reasoning.

I have no belief in some afterlife. I know just enough biology to be dangerous and I know what happens to the body and brain/mind at death. When my time comes, it will be nothing more than "lights out" like blowing out a candle. I have seen no evidence of anything supernatural, I've seen no evidence of spirits, ghosts, souls etc... Without the evidence there is no logical reason to believe in these things. Anecdotal stories are not solid evidence by any sense of the term evidence. People have vivid imaginations and its been my experience that the less educated one is in the sciences of nature, the more likely they are to believe in things that go against all we know about how nature works. I accept that I could be proven wrong someday, but until then, I have no reason to believe in the supernatural.

 

<sigh> I never accused you of breaking the rules, I merely pointed them out in defense of my stipulations in the OP....

 

Nonsense, Canni just shared his reasons for choosing Christianity and abided by the stipulations. Maybe I missed the post, what post number did you try and answer the OP? My bad if I missed it.

 

I'll answer you in 2 ways: from my personal experience, and from what I've heard an enlightened master say.

My personal experience is that I have had moments of various durations which were free of thought. How do I know this? One way is that at some point thought comes back in and says "oh there was no thought there for a while". But another way I know... and this is a deeper knowing... is that I become aware of deep peace and stillness. There is an awareness that is possible that does not contain mental thinking or noise. It is almost bizarre, from the viewpoint of the mind, that such a state is even possible. And if I hadn't experienced it myself I'm sure I would be in great doubt of this possibility. Can you imagine pure awareness without labeling or judging or defining or mental critiqueing? Yes, this state is possible.

So from what I've heard an enlightened master speak, this is the predominant state of enlightenment. But thought can still come in from time to time, and we still have the use of our mental faculties, except the amount of mental noise is reduced greatly, and then what thoughts are there are under the guidance of Spirit... which means there is spacious awareness and stillness beneath the mind activity such that thoughts don't overtake us completely.

When thoughts are directed by Spirit this is what is also known as inspiration, a truly creative movement. To live by inspiration is to live in harmony with all of life. Thoughts that do not arise out of inspiration are ultimately destructive. And if we look around at the insanity of the world today (and in all of recorded history) we can witness the effects of un-inspired thinking.

 

We can start another thread if you think you can prove god or even provide evidence for the existence of the god of the bible. But here is the problem, if the bible was to vanish, then what would you use as evidence of THAT god? See, you have to assume gods existence first then you say the bible proves him, and that is circular if not irrational because there is nothing in the bible that points to this gods existence. Sure there are lots of things this god "aledgedly said" but it is no different than me saying.... " God told me yesterday that Christians screwed up the bible and the Hebrews made up fantastical stories about creation that aren't true" Do you believe me? Of course not, but then why believe the bible?

 

1. So are you suggesting that "God" created thes universe in 6 days anddid it in such a manner to deceive us?

2.I guess I can't prove dinosaurs existed , but I find it hard to argue with the "calcium deposits" that resemble that have been found in such a manner that they resemble many of teh animals today. Plant fossils too. They provide a better explination than a deity creating all in 6 days , then leaving teh scene. Or only deeming a select few worthy of his attention.

3. I guess I should use the more common "hominidae" (a more modern tem for hominids) which is teh family that modern humans belong to. Are you saying that one must first prove evolution in the manner that one must prove "God"? Just look at fossil records. Over time they begin to have skeletons that resemble bipedal creatures which are eventually identical with the skeletons of humans today. But I guess it's just coincidence to think that our nearly identical genes hold any validity right?

4. And why is there no need for a source ? Why must we be so reticent about it? Isn' that kind of like saying "just shut up and believe it" ? It's rather arrogant of the human mind to think that:

A. The universe was "created" or came to be for our purposes.

B. That "he" is "alive" and "conscious". There's that ego popping up again. But I guess the people who "wrote" the Bible had no ego right? No other motives huh?

 

I'm afraid I can not, by defining it, I conceptualise it, objectify it, give it form when it is infact beyond form, and beyond thought.



You can only know it ( God, higher consciousness, whatever label you give it) by 'knowing' through experience, rather than intellectually knowing God with the mind.

It's simple to experience, yet incredibly subtle.

For example; Take a flower in your hand. Watch the flower. Don't label the flower. Don't know it in your mind as a flower. Just see it, without interpreting, ( see but don't see) A stillness will arise within, and you will become conscious of Being. Then, you will know God.:cheers2:

 

You're the one that posted the rules of the forum, not that it's a problem to me; Canni may have abided by your stipulations but did not abide by the rules of the forum.

 

I would be glad to stay right there and discuss this topic with you, if you would lift your stipulation about not using the Bible.

If not, thanx for playing.

 

Well using the Bible to explain the Bible defeats the purpose.

That's like using a word in ts own definition.

 

What? This thread is a call for logical reasons for a belief in the CJIG, not explaining the Bible. Seeing as the Bible is part of the reason for belief in the CJIG, I would like to be able to use it rather than have it ruled out. Seems reasonable to me.

 

Knowledge comes from experience, if you experience something, you should be able to define it, conceptualize it, thus you truely "know" it. If you can't define it, then how can you know "what" you experienced? I experienced a pain in my abdomin and I could describe it and I could define it, but I didn't "know what" the pain was or what it was caused from, until I described it to someone more knowledgeable. I posit that if you can experience it, you can define it, even if you are unsure of what it is you are defining.

 

Define Love. Go ahead, do it. I double dog dare you. And be sure it encompasses everyone's experience of it.

 

Since this is an obvious attempt to switch and bait to avoid having to answer my question, I won't go in to it, except to say that Love is nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain. THere is nothing magical, there is no "force" behind it. You can read more about it here.

Now please stay on topic.

 

you're funny.

 

Do you 'Know' Yourself?
Please, define Yourself