Why Islam is disrespected

Claiming western culture is better than Islamic is an arrogant stance. So the U.S. is supposed to westernize Islamic culture? Maybe that's part of the problem.

Americans have gotten a warped view of Islam from their media, especially since 911. I remember right after 911 ABC news ran a clip showing the buildings falling and a clip of Palestinians in the streets laughing and cheering. What they didn't tell you was that the Palestinian video was stock footage taken years earlier after an agreement was reached with Israel that made everyone happy. Everyone who saw the video thought they were cheering the 911 attack. Those are the subtle ways that the media manipulates information for public consumption.

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That little bit about Mohammed I quoted came directly off an Internet resource. I don't know who wrote it, but they seem to be very much in favor of reconciling the differences between Islam & Christianity, in putting salve on the wound to heal their differences that have been magnified through worldwide terrorism. They are obviously trying to major on shared beliefs rather than magnifying their differences. You can see the slant there & I should have put it in quotes, (and will) but I was on the phone & leaving the house.

As far as that little History lesson I put together from Genesis, which happened a couple of thousand years BC (I'd have to look the date up) it shows that the Arabs & Jews came from a common ancestor & have been jealously fighting ever since their lineage was split. Later, when Christ came, many of the common people who were of the Jewish Religion who worshipped at the Temple in Jerusalem & were waiting for the Messiah at the time heard him gladly, "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believed on His Name." Jn 1:12. So there you have another dividing of the flocks & Christianity is born & spreads all over the Roman Empire despite much persecution until the Emperor gets converted & declares it the Holy Roman Empire. (Sounds like Presidents we have known!)

That is when it seems it became a formal religion, Christians stopped being persecuted, rejoined society--it got corrupted, big & bad. The Catholic church came out of that amalgam of church & state & even took on some of the Pagan beliefs of the time, such as the Druid worship of the Christmas Tree & the Bishop's Hat is a replica of the Fish-god, etc. They were works & object-oriented with statues, indulgences, penances & basically got into the state where Martin Luther found them & started the Protestant Reformation on October 31, 1517; the day he nailed his 95 Theses on the church door at Wittenberg. They eventually wound up smashing the statues & idols as he & his followers rebelled against this corrupt merchandising of men's souls. His main stance was on Eph. 2: 8,9 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith, & that not of yourselves; It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

There were obviously still people who did not join the Catholic Church/Holy Roman Empire; God & Country craze of the time, still called themselves Christians after the early disciples & remained God's dropouts, pilgrims & strangers upon Earth as it describes His children of all time in Hebrews Chapter 11.

So the God & Country people are always the system, going with the party-line, just as Presidents align themselves with the Religious factions of today. I recall a picture of Hitler & his marching troops being blessed by a Catholic Bishop. I found it in a musty magazine in an old Italian Villa I stayed near. They always want that approval rating, God is on our side & the US is no exception.

Mohammed comes along then as Islam does now, to make the heathen repent. He focused on the area around Mecca, into the Mideast & North Africa & sent missionaries all over the region. So the Muslim population remained in these areas until recently.

The Crusades: Wars undertaken by European so-called 'Christians' were actually inspired by Pope Urban II & the Catholics of the Holy Roman Empire who exhorted the people to war. There were Six Crusades between the 11th & 13th Centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims. Just like all wars, there has to be a good buzz-line to get people enraged. Whether for the Cross or the Koran or the Furor; or "War to End all Wars" or "War against Communism" or "The War on Drugs" or "The War to free the slaves" or "The War to enslave the Free..." whatever, they have to give people a nominal 'righteous cause' in order to get them to bludgeon one another for the economic gains of the Hierarchy. Religious motives were said to have dominated the Crusades at first, but worldly gains were at the core. The European Nobles hoped to capture land & spoils & Italian city-states desired to expand trade into those areas.

I must agree that "not everybody in the Mideast is worshipping the same God but doesn't know it." I think what Antimatter235 says is an important point in this discussion right now:

From my stance, Jesus said 'love one another' before He left Earth. Yeah, we can all get along. I don't think we should be killing each other in the name of religion. In fact He said in Jn 16:2 - "They shall put you out of the synagogues; Yeah, the time cometh when whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." Well that happened in Paul's time. But he obviously underlines the important fact that people are going to be killing one another for the rest of time in the name of religion.

Didn't Toynbee, the famous Historian say that the only way to unite the World was to unite their religions? That might seem like the rational answer to the problem of stopping religious wars but theoretically, when the Antichrist comes to power, he declares that he himself is god & that everyone must worship him. Then begins the greatest tribulation ever seen on the face of the earth.

But before resorting to this end, I believe he has to be seen as some sort of benevolent figure or savior. He has to come in on a platform of peace. That could be that he tries to unite all the world's religions under a truce that could be the 7 Year Covenant of the Book of Daniel & Revelations which he signs with many. This might internationalize access to Jerusalem for Muslims, Jews & Christians & people of all faiths. Obviously it doesn't work. Maybe all these religious-political factions keep on fighting, since it later says he forsake the Holy Covenant.

He breaks it in the middle of the 7 Year Truce & begins enforced worship of himself as god. This doesn't fly with any of the staunchly religious people. So although not all Christians, could be described as the anti-antichrists. They fight him. There are wars throughout this last 3-1/2 years culminating with Armageddon which Jesus returns to stop & sets up the Thousand year reign of Christ where the lion shall lie down with the lamb & they burn the weapons of war which takes years & there is peace for a millennium.

I understand & agree with Antimatter235 about people thinking we are all sons of God & the brotherhood of man with all that everything’s cool BS, because they're not saying what god & defining which morality. There are plenty of gods. The angels are gods to us & not all of them are good!

I think it comes down to the fact that there are really only two types of religion. The ones that believe that they can save themselves & the other that believes that only God can save them.

"And if you call me brother now, forgive me if I inquire; just according to whose plan? When it all comes down to dust, I will kill you if I must, I will help you if I can; When it all adds up to dust, I will help you if I must, I will kill you if I can. Have Mercy on this uniform, Man of Peace, Man of War; the peacock spreads its fan." —Leonard Cohen

 

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It's not arrogant to say that equality for women is better than forcing women to wear burkhas and prohibiting them from driving cars. It's not arrogant to say that freedom of speech and freedom of the press are better than fascist state-controlled media. It's not arrogant to say that freedom of religion is better than beheading any infidels you might encounter in your country. Those things are self-evident to most Westerners.

I'm not familiar with that particular incident, so I can't comment on it. But are you denying that the vast majority of the world's Muslims support (or are at least ambivalent towards) Islamic terrorist organizations?

 

A couple of you guys have the same mentality as those Journalists who hyped Guantanamo. Or worse yet —of the Rioters. I'm trying to put some intelligent thoughts out here. I don't have to pander to the antigroupies who have nothing to offer but heckling & repetition of their insufficient reading skills that result in their gross lack of comprehension. I was quoting a friend of mine who is absurd & outlandish, but amusingly so. I don't think he was the least bit serious. Here's what I said again, word for word. I'm quoting a source (underlined). I don't say I necessarily agree with the concept:

ABJECT LESSON: This is probably just the way the Koran-flushing incident (that there is no proof ever happened) got started. People who have nothing on their minds take something they 'thought' they heard or read out of context & use it as an excuse to throw stones & incite a riot.

 

The vast majority of Muslims don't support terrorism. Where are you getting this from?

It's arrogant to make a general claim that one's own culture is better than someone else's. Some people pick the worst things they can come up with about another culture and use it to try to argue their culture is better than the other. One can also pick the worst problems of western culture. There are aspects of other cultures that the U.S. culture could learn from to improve itself, such as not squandering resources, not taking away other people's land from them, not manipulating the politics of other countries, etc.

Even if we agree that one aspect of another culture is not a virtue by our standards, that doesn't give us the right to dictate change in their culture. What you have right now is basically a small group of people in two different cultures using force to try to change the other one's culture.

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We need more of this:


"Al-Sadr vows to end tensions

Al-Sadr has joined with other Shiite and Sunni Muslim representatives to search for a way to end the country's sectarian violence, an official with Sadr's office said Monday.

Al-Sadr has spoken with Sheikh Harith al-Dhari, leader of the Muslim Scholars Association, and Sayyid Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim, chairman of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution, said the spokesman, Sheikh Abd al-Hadi Darraji.

The three leaders agreed to form councils to search for a peaceful solution and to discuss accusations of tit-for-tat killings traded between Sunni and Shiite groups.

Darraji said the first meeting would take place in a few days."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/23/iraq.main/index.htm

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Them animals well be killing each other for the next 1000 years.

 

i think it's quite amazing that image above... that somebody gets mand. then more annoyed, then angry enough to make that big explosion happen....
it's like the butterfly effect. and thats why i think that as individuals, we should always be a 'filter' for what goes through us. and so make sure that we dont accidently perpetuate waves of agression. whoever they are aimed at, for whatver reason....there'll always be a 'reason' if you want one.

 

In other words, there's a lack on nuclear 'control rods' in the world today.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7080-2004Jul22.html

When Middle Easterners were asked a variation of a "most admired world leader" question, two of the top five answers were terrorists and two of them were fascist Arab autocrats. Only one of the top five (Jacques Chirac) has any values that Westerners can sympathize with.

I'm not saying that the majority of Muslims necessarily "support" terrorism in the sense that they're going to blow up buildings. But the citizens of predominantly Muslim nations tend to be, at best, ambivalent towards terrorism. Nowhere in the Arab world will you find mass protests against acts of terror.

I'm not saying that Islamic culture has no positive aspects. But at the present time, it is being taken over by increasing sympathy with terror groups. You're right, you could pick the worst aspects of Western culture too...but even the worst aspects of Western culture don't include killing sprees at the slightest provocation, or the de facto enslavement of half of the population.

In most cases, I would agree that the use of force is unnecessary and counterproductive. However, there are other ways of influencing cultures. Most Arabs have a positive view of American culture, so hopefully their ever-increasing access to Western (or Asian) values will result in stronger anti-terror views from the people of the Middle East.

 

http://www.hire-a-killer.com/

 

There are peace rallies in the Middle East but it's hard to get a handle on the numbers and turnout from the U.S. media which often ignores those events. I can say that I see many more demonstrations on TV news networks that originate from outside the U.S than I do on U.S. networks.

The media in the U.S. seems to be afraid of showing any type of protest or demonstration out of fear that it may invite more activism or violence or insult the administration. For example, there were about 300,000 people who held a rally for women's rights on the DC mall a year ago, yet none of the cable news networks carried the video (if they did, they buried at 4am for a few seconds). Not knowing any better, many Americans would conclude that the U.S. is apathetic about women's rights.

CSPAN was the only U.S. network I saw that carried the NY protests against Bush in 2004 at any length. I also never saw any of the other protests against Bush in Europe and around the world until I set up a satellite link to get international news channels.

In the violence prone areas, people are afraid to speak out against it because of possible retaliation. It would be like being in a U.S. town where the mafia is operating and holding an anti-mafia rally.

Here's one rally in the Mideast:

http://www.flwi.ugent.be/cie/Palestina/palestina60.htm

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at least 20 people get kill every time

 

Royal Ass-kissing!

Because although the violent vengeance & hatred is committed by so few, the so-called moderates are therefore free to roam the world. But these people are too intimidated to condemn the violence of the other Muslim extremists. It is after all a religion spawned from the violence of their past, which neither Christians nor Buddhists condone. So they are political in their very nature.

It's a cult technique: These depressed, single guys have "forsaken-all for Mohammed" & sacrificed (thrown away) their lives as martyrs (mass-murderers) to gain Heaven (Hell!)

If moderates want to qualify as good Muslims, (pray & go to Heaven) they have to allow it. They are, after all too busy with their own families & donating their tithe to the mosque to be suicide bombers themselves. (This is the way all cults operate, so it's common knowledge) Besides--they are busy fulfilling the Mullah's/Pat Robertson's vision of outnumbering the Infidels by having more children than they do! They have Satellite TV there, Pat!

Moderate-Nice-Guy Muslims give money to the mosques that support extremism. In the meanwhile they present the 'good citizen Muslim face' to the world. "Look how good we are--we don't drink & are such good family members...our kids behave unlike you infidels!"

This runs interference for these other guys whom they publicly disassociate themselves from, but are afraid to oppose in theory! So, they are two-faced. That was the character I always sensed in the Mideast. The trade winds blew back & forth & they trust no one from the outside--only one another & that is questionable. That is just the point I made about living in the Mideast. You can trust a person like this as far as you can throw them! They would change sides overnight. This is just the character of the people. I lived there for 5 full years & became fluent in their languages.

Observe the ruling family of the Princes of Saud. They are more interested in staying in power than they are in turning Bin Ladin over to Infidels.

The Bin Ladins have billions of dollars in Saudi assets all over the mideast. Osama has like 40 brothers & sisters. If the Saud government wanted to stop him cold, they could do it overnight.

And the US has chosen the easy road of remaining dependent on Saudi foreign oil (instead of hydrogen that is in the very air we breathe & companies like Chrysler & GM are paying the Danish to experiment with using!) to the point that they do not want to upset the balance of governments. The big Fat Saud princes are quaking in their boots since they know Bin Ladin is amongst them & popular with people enough to the point that he can pull off terrorist strikes right there in the heart of the Kingdom, undetected.

The Bushes & other remaining Presidents in waiting just want to finish out their shifts as Commander-in-Chief in order to retire with the secret service protecting them, respect of Americans everywhere & that 100 or 200 thousand dollar a year retirement! So, is Jesus really ringing in their slimy Republican Evangelical sucking-up-to hearts? —HELL NO!

Read the book: "The End of Oil"

 

I read the article and some of the responses here, and I am shocked by the banality of the viewpoints and lack of critical thinking in response to the article. Perhaps it's because I have come across an article of Mr. Jacoby's in the past, and know he is a Zionist, an extreme one as I recall.

Ever hear of the Crusades? The Inquisition? Jewish lebensraum in Palestinian lands? Religious intolerance comes from all groups. In fact, many of those aligned with Mr. Jacoby's neoconservative perspective are Christian fundamentalists who want to prevent evolution from being taught in science courses.

He makes Islam out to be the root of all problems in the conflict between the Islamic world and the West. He ignores the provocations and steers the focus to a topic that while worthwhile to discuss, does not get to the root of the problem. The war against Iraq was based on lies: Iraq had no WMD, as the IAEA and UN found. Could the unjust occupation of Iraq by U.S. and other troops be motivating these militants he condemns?

With many lies there are partial truths. Mr. Jacoby rightly criticizes the dysfunctional fanaticism in the Muslim world, which played a role in bringing down their wondrous civilization. However, his criticism is largely ideologically based, and is clearly one-sided.

 

Thanks for your opinion. Did you read them all? Posting #20, covers The Origins of the Arabs & Jews, Christianity, The Holy Roman Empire, Origin of Islam, The Crusades...on up to the present. I think we've chewed the fat on every one of those issues at least once or twice now. I guess most that have been on here are as worn out as everyone who's tried to negotiate Peace in the Mideast. But you're welcome to take a crack at it...

 

There were open-minded posts, but what I find shocking is that this is a hippie forum and the majority of responses were of a "yeah, I agree man" nature. I would think hippies would react more skeptically to an article that implies that the current war is justifiable. I would think this critical attitude would be shown by the majority. But yes, I agree with a few of the posts on this thread, or at least appreciate the objectivity reflected in a few.

It just confirms that hippies were more about psychological withdrawal than political activism: sex, drugs and rock & roll. Politics? "Whatever, dude."

 

I don't see what you mean by Pro-War in there. I think the Columnist addresses the Volitile nature of the Religious Rage that explodes from the ranks of Muslims on these occasions which is not typical of either Christians or Buddhists when their religion is in fact insulted. I feel that he side-steps the war for the most part.

 

"they" would like us to believe that we are in iraq right now only killing "terrorists"... Anyone who picks up a gun, and defends their country from the outside invaders (the US), are labeled terrorists... but really, they arent any different from you or me... muslims and christians have a lot of things in common... The muslim communities in the middle east are simply reacting to years and years of hatred, stereotypes, brought from the christian nations... they are reacting to the Crusades still.. When we invade their country, they are just simply defending it... We ousted sadamm hussein already, everything after that is simply murder... people are dying pointlessly... by being in their country, people there feel the need to fight us... They arent terrorists... they have no aims to come to america and kill us all... they were living their simple lives like we do before we came along and invaded their country, killing their friends and family... they are defending themselves from us, just as we would do if we were invaded by another country... they arent terrorists... they are people like you and me... and you people who say we should have nuked the mid east are some sick fuckers... Its funny what these supposed "Christians" say about muslims... things that arent very christ-like... you are all going to hell! I hope you repent daily.