Why is socialism a bad thing?

I have actually lived in Central America and have met quite a few people that have lived through the revolutions.

Socialist/Red backed and Capitalist/U.S. backed.

People that lose property and wealth hate revolutions and people that gain love them.


Pine ridge reservation was not a revolution it was a little disturbance on a U.S. Indian reservation.

 

i did not say that pine ridge was a revolution

i was merely obliquely referring to the capitalist adventure of genocide

i am not suggesting that socialism is perfect

neither am i suggesting that any nation has ever REALLY been properly socialist

[everything gets bogged down in authoritarianism]

you say people that lose property hate revolutions, so how can the poor ever hate them? i have no property, so bring it on!

start talking shit about the revolutions for corporate control over bananas and oil and land and i'll start taking you seriously

until then, i laugh

 

seriously though

the message i get from this thread is that universal health care will mean the gulag

not that amerika doesn't already have a gulag--oh, I GET IT, amerika already has a gulag because it's SOCIALIST

spare me

 

In communist socialism takeovers (the virtually only form of socialism around) you not only lose $ you lose freedom social and civil rights.

You are told where to work or disappear..

You are told where to live or disappear..

You disagree you disappear..

At least in a capitalist backed government you can get jobs you choose and places to live that you choose.

I have no money and would be for a revolution if it made things better and more free but most of time revolutions don’t.. They are just the changing of power.

Most All revolutions (99%) are for corporate control they just use the repressed and unhappy population as pawns to take the risk and fight for it.

People can make up stories of a pure free of corruption socialist revolution all day long but it is just a fantasy not a reality.

 

zihger

the only freedom-the ONLY one--that you have in a capitalist country, is the freedom to starve to death

 

I’m not advocating capitalism I just think Socialism is far worse with much less lifestyle choices.

Socialism is a flawed system that leads to total Government control and ultimate repression of the people.

 

considering that there has never really been a fully socialist state

just a few autocrats calling themselves marxists

i'm not sure what evidence you're basing your assumptions on

unless it's that tired old 'people are too evil for socialism' rag, i guess we ought to just give up and let wal-mart run the whole fucking world then . . .

 

True no one has every made it to a true socialist state but the closer they get the worse it turns out.

Take a look at a Sandinsata co-op that is pretty dam close to pure socialism and what a repressive life with No, absolutely no options but work for the cause, the cause that is not your own.

Have an questions? Well read the Marxist manual and your leader will tell you how to interpret it.

The many hundreds of communist sponsored attempts Cuba, Russia, Latin America, Central America

And the many small independent attempts by young revolutionary communes in America and Europe all fail.

That is getting close to true socialism we can all be workers for the Wal-mart.. brothers in work and commercial enterprise.

We can all wear the same blue uniforms, earn the same wage and live in the same size box. When we are good and loyal the cause will reward us.

 

Arguing over capitalism vs. socialism is stupid because they are both mechanisms of control by the few over the many. My only argument is that the elite prefer socialism because it eliminates competition and places full control into their hands via the state. I have never ONCE heard those who support socialism explain why the bankers and super-wealthy funded socialism's rise going back far before the days of the Bolshevik Revolution (which was a product of the West). This is all elucidated in the scholarly works of professor Antony Sutton, especially his highly acclaimed Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, where he shows the documented connection between, and the partnership of, the Wall Street bankers and the communist revolutionaries (who were funded from Wall Street and London), which mainstream history tells us were at opposite ends of the spectrum, when they in fact have always worked hand-in-hand with each other.

If socialism has always been about helping the poor and downtrodden, how come it has been promoted by the same people who have worked to create such poverty and suffering in the first place? And this goes all the way back to people like Karl Marx, who was an agent of the Rothschild banking family, who are perhaps the last people that those who believe in socialism and Marxism would associate with the man. These dupes cannot even understand that what Marx proposed in "his" supposed manifesto has since become a reality today, or is in the process of being implemented in this supposedly "capitalist" society we live in. So everything Marx laid out in "his" manifesto would directly benefit the people he was supposedly railing against. Irony? No. Not if you understand history.

In short: capitalism and socialism/communism are both part of the same Hegelian dialectic and played off against one another for an agenda. Socialism/communism was designed as a false antithesis/oppostion to capitalism, when in fact both deal with the same monied system that is controlled by the same cryptocracy. This is proven historical fact. By administering then demonizing capitalism, they could present socialism as their alternative to place even more control and more power in their hands. A truly free people would not tolerate a state-managed economy. However, if they can convince the people that "capitalism" is the problem, they can convince them that their own "alternative" is the solution.

So what we have in the West today is not "true" capitalism at all. However, all our problems, which have been caused by the corportate-controlled state managing and manipulating the economy for corporate and banker interests, has been blamed on "capitalism." This in turn creates a reaction from the dumbed-down, uninformed public that we need even more control and more management of the economy, hence more of what created these problems in the very first place.

 

You mean arguing about anything except your conspiracy theory is stupid, and you will try to turn every debate on everything into a debate on your conspiracy theory. Everybody who doesn't believe the conspiracy theory is stupid. Everybody who deviates from the conspiracy theory script is brainwashed and ignorant. The conspiracy theory is the only true thing in the world, the source of all wisdom and consciousness.

A dupe is someone who believes the communist manifesto is a reality in the USA. Honestly, do you ever step back and think about what you are reading and repeating?

 

he's right about arguing about socialism vs capitalism tho

i'm not even a socialist, i just got sucked into the fun [no self control]

that said, the tenets of socialism are VASTLY more appealing than those of capitalism

as long as one addresses the control issues, possibly not starting with a top-down revolution, and being forced to exist in a constant state of tension or outright war might help

though people in a capitalist republic such as the u$ only believe they have freedom, much as one might believe in santa claus

 

Oh so lets just have socialism but without any problems. Sounds great.Too bad nobody thought of that before.

I guess we''re supposed to be impressed by this cynicism, but I for one am not. If you think you have no freedom in the US then freedom was obviously wasted on you.

 

blithely dismiss the idea of socialism without problems, as if the continued harrassment of any country that dares to control its own resources, rather than pander to u$ business interests, had nothing to do with it

yeah, cuba sucks, so would you if the guy with all the money told you to go to hell for 50 years

please delineate my freedoms for me, i need a good laugh, i am about to get my ass kicked for expressing a few of them here in eastern montana, where [like most of the u$] the only freedom you have is to agree with everybody else

[hey that's TWO! cos i mentioned the freedom to starve to death earlier, now we've got a mini bill of rights going]

 

Socialism wasn't blithely dismissed, it took untold millions of deaths and decades of repression before the world learned to dismiss socialism. It has been tried in numerous countries, big and small, rich and poor, in many flavors and variations. All failed.

The US doesn't have "all the money". There's also a place called THE REST OF THE WORLD which has most of the world's population, most of the GDP, and is perfectly happy to trade with Cuba. In fact even the US trades a lot with Cuba now. Doesn't really explain why Animal Farm is banned in Havana though does it?

I'm not really interested in joining your cynicism contest. If you are capable of feeling sorry for yourself while people experience real tyranny in Zimbabwe, North Korea, and Burma, they at least you have the freedom of ludicrous self pity.

 

that's THREE freedoms we're up to now, thank you!

not much i can do about zimbabwe, north korea or burma now, is there?

if you can tell me ONE goddamn thing i can do to make anyone's life easier anywhere, you let me know, okay?

i have no car, no home, and little to no disposable income, so you can eliminate a few things right off the bat, and i'm already feeding most of the stray cats in town so that's out too

[it's functional cynicism]

 

animal farm is not banned in the u$ as most amerikans are too dumb to realize that it applies to them as well

the amerikan dream is hypnosis thru education, after which the masses have been trained to self-hypnotize

did you vote for the crazy pig or the friendly pig in 2008? do you think you are a pig, or could become one if you work hard enough?

[EDIT to say i am relatively pleased that the friendly pig won, better friendly than crazy, and for all those whose socio-historical status caused them to weep with joy on election night, but a pig is a pig is a pig]

i might stop arguing in this thread now, again, i am not actually a socialist, but am tired of seeing a little-tried and never-realized theory get kicked around by science-fiction film buffs

 

The average standard of living in the countries of Western Europe,Australia etc. is now higher than in America.This was never the case years ago.This UNregulated capitalism that the US has nowadays has just benefited the wealthy and big businesses.UNregulated capitalism is just as bad as Russias version of communism was.

 

Please, that's because you are American. No offence, but the United States have never given it a shot. Until a Liberal government gained power in Denmark, it was one of the best countries on most points. The United States have got relatively few of those records.

 

I'm rather pro capitalist for the US but it is easy to see how this has worked rather well in places like Sweden..
The problem for the US is our culture has anything but the idea of "Enough is as good as a feast"...To try this in the US you would certainly get a Nazi/Stalinist like regime before something like the cultures of the Euro countries actually emerged.

 

You realize Sweden has had a democratically elected government for the past 150 years right?