Why I think young teens shouldn't trip

Nah, not trying to be offensive. My point is, it seems the people who don't get lost reminiscing about their "spiritual" LSD experience are the ones who keep it together better during and after the effects of the drug. Being able to experience it "fully", rather than analytically "Am I doing this right? Is this feeling right? Etc etc", seems to have its benefits.

 

The article helped my case. It didn't cover it at all though.

I also had a good number of other sources. I even had them added to my bookmarks last week. God knows where they are now.

 

True, true. The "Am I doing this right? Is this feeling right? Etc etc" type of questions seem to come mostly from rookies(from my personal experience). I think that not having too much knowledge about LSD can sometimes be a good thing for first time users. It gives them more of a surprise and something to look forward to. I mean you would have no idea what you're getting into, what to expect, etc, if you catch my drift.

People are always so worried if they put the blotter under or on top of the tongue, why they didn't get many visuals, if they'll be sober enough to have conversations, if it was real LSD, just that kind of jazz. I mean it makes sense that first time users are curious but c'mon already, just eat the damn blotter and watch yourself fly eight miles high.

 

But didn't you just say LSD shouldn't be taken to get fucked up, serious thought should go into it before hand then.

But really LSD should only be taken to get fucked up unless you're trying to delve into a personal problem you're trying to fix. LSD is nothing but a drug, all it does is alter the way your brain receives and analyzes various messages, most of the time when you take LSD nothing of importance will happen what so ever. In fact the best thing that ever happened to me on acid was watching a crazy guy get tackled by the police, it was hilarious. You gotta go into it ready to have some fucked up fun for the next 7 hours.

 

Don't get me wrong, acid is fun as fuck. And the crazy guy getting tackled sounds great to be experiencing while tripping; I laugh at the most random objects when I trip. It just makes everything so hysterical.

In my opinion, I don't think LSD could be used to solve problems. LSD reflects every emotion and image occurring in your mind x100, making pain and sadness(an example of problems) an unbearable experience on LSD. But you also gotta think that without your brain, you wouldn't be where you are. You wouldn't be alive, you wouldn't breathe, you wouldn't eat, you wouldn't talk, you just simply wouldn't exist. Everything you have experienced in your life has been passed into your brain. And naturally, without drugs, your brain reacts to daily in a certain way. But when your brain has a good dose of LSD in it, it changes the way it processes thought, opinion, and daily reality. So everything you now see out of your brain is the way you will live your life. The life that has been affected by LSD. Therefore, the reason being why psychedelics are so important as sacraments.

..But really, psychedelics are also the funnest drugs out there. There's nothing funner than a good dose of LSD.

 

So if you realize this why fucking ruin that as a teenager when life is just getting started?

Ugggh i go over to see the woman and now im arguing in person as opposed to on the net, can't escape it today.

 

Ok, the thing you're missing here is that MDMA is not being presented as a daily use med. It's been, and being used as an aid in psychotherapeutic practice. And there is very strong evidence that it helps a large amount, particularly with PTSD.

Studies have shown that psychotherapy is -just- as effective as daily use meds for treating most psychological disorders. Without all the nasty side-effects. Using psychedelics in conjunction with psychotherapy notably increases the efficacy of the treatment, leading to results in a higher percentage of cases, and in shorter time frames.

One difficulty is, pharmaceutical companies are making huge money on daily use psych meds, and are fighting tooth and nail to keep the occasional use drugs out of circulation.

However, there is currently a window. MDMA research has started up again, all over the world, including the US. LSD research is in the wings. DMT research is huge, particularly in South America where it's legal. The Santo Daime church in the US has won it's suit, and is now legally allowed to use Ayahuasca in the US. Ibogaine research is huge in Europe. MDMC and AMT are being looked into as alternative to MDMA. Psylocybin is showing advantageous results in quality of life improvements for those with terminal illness.

Regular users(avg 4/month) of Ayahuasca in Brazil were studied(over 700 of them) and showed no area on a wide battery of psychological, neurological and quality of life tests where their average was below the control group, and a number of areas where they scored significantly higher.

As to which is more dangerous, caffeine or LSD, from a purely physiological perspective caffeine is far more toxic. Less then 40 times the average dose of caffeine can kill a person. 10,000 times a regular dose, by body weight, had no sign significant physiological affect on test animals. 4-500 times what is currently considered an average dose(75 mcg) of LSD has been used by many people over the years with no physiological affects. From a purely toxicological perspective, LSD is inert. So far, the -only- death directly caused by LSD ever recorded was one unlucky elephant, despite huge amounts of testing. Many other triptamines show similar toxicology.

Now, other psychedelics this is not true for. The phenethylamine family has a higher toxicological footprint. MDMA can kill you in high doses and leads to serious neurological issues with regular heavy use. The 2c family just hasn't had enough testing, but does seem to have a lower LD-50 then the triptamines. The disassociatives vary all over the place.

But compared to ADD meds, these things are fairly safe. Amphetamine salts don't prove to be much less dangerous then other amphetamines. Like, say, meth. The fact that we feed kids daily doses of amphetamines is -insane-. And very few long term affects studies have been done. Those that have show strong signs of tolerance build up, social dysfunction, neurological disorders, and chronic depression being common. Not to mentio that overdoses will certainly kill you, the LD-50 on these things are ridiculously low, often in the 20-30 dose range. Though Tylenol is even worse, with an LD-50 around 15x the average dose. And that one is a horrible, painful, slow death by renal failure.

As to dangers from people doing stupid things on psychedelics, well, they exist. They're not any higher then alcohol mind(I'd say lower, but that's just anecdotal), but they do exist. Personally, I'm of a mind that if someone wants to do stupid things and get themselves killed, they should be given the space to do that. Shrug. On the plus side, unlike alcohol, psychedelic users are unlikely to be much of a danger to others, mostly just themselves.

As to what it will do to their fragile growing minds? Dunno. A lot of the smartest, most successful people in silicon valley are acid heads, and many have been for some time. There's no evidence that it -will- harm them, though also no evidence that it won't. We just don't know. And from that we say "you shouldn't do it"? Odd. We don't seem to do that with other things. Like food additives. Granted, again, there is evidence of harm in some drugs. MDMA and THC being notable ones where such evidence exists(along with amphetamines and opiates).

And we actually do have evidence that DMT use amongst children, never mind teens, shows no signs of neurological harm.

There are a lot of anecdotal stories(urban legends) around LSD and other triptamines having major negative psychological effects on some people. However actual evidence for this is very slim despite huge amounts of testing. Those extremely rare actually verified cases all involved very large doses(100x+), usually also either involving some form of significant traumatic event while on the drug, one that would likely cause some PTSD while sober, such as assault, rape or in the case of CIA testing psychological torture; or involved someone with existent and severe psychological disorders to begin with. If you're diagnosed with severe bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, or similar , consider limiting your intake. Also mind your set and setting, trip with folks you trust, and watch your friend's backs.

 

Physiologically speaking LSD-25 is one of the safest substances known.
Just because is induces dramatic psychological changes does not mean it is doing damage to your system. LSD is THE most researched psychedelic drug. Every single attempt thus far to show any type physical damage has met with failure.
All the research supports the idea that LSD-25 is a very,very safe substance, safer than refined sugar and caffeine.
Do some research on the topic and you will finds that I am correct.
It is all right there at your fingertips, start typing and learn the facts.

 

Nice to see someone else on here that actually research's and gets FACTS rather than myth.

There actually has been one case of human overdose resulting in death from LSD, at least all indicators point to LSD to be the cause of death. The guy injected what was determined to 325 milligrams of crystal in the mistaken thought that it was meth. That is like taking 3250 hits of 100mics each. Arrested pulmonary function was the cause of death, an effect noted in animal studies with high dosages of LSD.

Psychological harm from LSD-25 according to all the research I have come across is in the range of about 1%. Pretty fucking low by anybodies standards.


Not meaning to toot my own horn, but here is an "exchange" of ideas concerning this very topic. I post a link only because it has a lot of info compiled into one place and is a pretty funny read in all.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Medical-Studies-Prove-The-Extensive-Damage-LSD-Does-To-The-Body-Mind

 

That's not the point, everyone knows LSD is physically pretty safe, as is caffeine, and marijuana, and numerous other things. The point is no one is going to drink a rock star and have their entire perception of the world altered at a very young age, oh go into an insanely nightmaring introspective trip that they can't handle, do something stupid in front of their parents, and get sent to a psych ward for 2 weeks. I've also yet to see anyone literally lose their mind after drinking some coffee.

 

Because I realized that life with psychedelics is much better than life without psychedelics.

 

Who said you had to be around parents? Who said you had to be around anyone at all? Both substances can cause awkward behavior. And besides, getting caught by a higher authority would be your fault. You would be there at the right time and place.

On to my other explanation..

At high enough doses, caffeine starts to produce hallucinations and cause restlessness. It also causes an increase in energy. Sound a bit like LSD?

Also, over the 67 years that LSD has been known as a psychoactive substance, there has been no proof of physical harm. Mental harm is possible, but it's extremely rare and mostly occurs in people with a history of mental illnesses. As for caffeine, it causes tiredness, depression(though LSD can also encourage depression), stress, and minor physical harm such as what TheMadCapSyd said earlier, cardio-vascular damage.

 

Still, I wonder if it was actually because of toxicity or just because of overly intense fear and panic.

 

Life with oxycontin in severe pain is better than life in severe pain without oxycontin, psychedelics are just drugs man, they can be profound no doubt but it's not like if you smoke 5 meo dmt once in a spiritual set and setting you turn into mahatma gandhi.

 

Wow, this thread is still going.

Just give a teen girl a capsule of powder and tell her its a pantydropper

 

I know that you are very well educated on LSD, I have read numerous posts by you on Hip Forums, but you do realize that we are comparing too different things here.

You are absolutely 100% right when you say LSD is not nearly as PHYSICALLY damaging as sugar or caffeine, 100% right, but it is the PSYCHOLOGICAL damage of LSD that is the concern.

No fucking shit LSD doesn't fuck up my arteries, but you can't go around parading this drug as some harmless substance that provides hours of fun with no potential downfall without thought to the way it changes your thought process (and not always for the better)...

 

Would that work on you?

I have a whole jar of pantydroppers.:drool5:

 

Agree

 

EXACTLY the reason why I have ALWAYS made the distinction between PHYSIOLOGICAL effects and PSYCHOLOGICAL effects.
Still if you do the research you would find that even the psychological risks and actual casualties of LSD only amounts to about 1% of the total number of people that have taken it. Far less then a lot of substances taken daily by young people, legal and illegal.

I also think I have always been very consistent in saying that a person needs to research it first and get the FACTS prior to experimenting with any psychedelic.

Do you realize that long before the "Hippy movement" and Timothy Leary that many THOUSANDS of people had taken LSD by the time Leary even heard of it? When I make comments about such things, that is based on ALL the research and literature I have read.
Not only that but of that approx. 1% of psychological casualties, the majority of them had pre-existing conditions or a family history of mental illness which gave them a genetic pre-disposition to adverse reactions to a powerful substance such as LSD.

In actuality, the most common adverse side effect from LSD or any psychedelic drug use is HPPD.

Trust me I have no illusions when it comes to drugs and their use/abuse. I thought I have always been pretty matter-of-fact and clear about it and always have pointed out the potential dangers as well as the potential benefits.

If I remember correctly I did say that I didn't feel that young teens had the maturity and emotional coping abilities to deal with some of the issues that may be brought up by LSD use.

Where in the world you ever got the idea that I am "parading this drug as some harmless substance that provides hours of fun with no potential downfall" is a mystery to me. Maybe you haven't read as much of what I have said as you think.
Even in my debate on another site about the medical risks I was very open and honest and presented both sides of the equation.

 

i think that the native americans used to have rights of passage for young teens and middle aged teens where they would give them mushrooms or peyote then send them out into the woods by themselves.

this was so that they would meet their guardian spirit, and that their spirits would become loosened to the physical realm and more in touch with the spiritual realm before they got too old and their ego became too hardened.