Why I Oppose Tattoos

Correction to "Robotics and Honesty" : typo "non-culturally aware" should read "culturally non-aware" or "culturally unaware" or, possibly, "culturally insensitive".

 

Typo "non-culturally aware" should read "culturally non-aware", "culturally unaware" or "culturally oblivious".

 

Typo "non-culturally aware" should read "culturally non-aware", "culturally unaware" or "culturally oblivious".

 

Well, this is a hippie forum, and one of the words that sticks in my mind when I think of hippies is "nature." Hippies tend to be in tune with nature, which is why they tend to be sympathetic to environmental causes and why they are interested in animal rights.

To my mind, not having tattoos is more "natural" because it leaves the body closer to what it was meant to be. Of course others have argued that tattoos have been around for thousands of years, used by various tribes, and that they carry great personal and/or religious meaning to many people.

Again, my post was not meant to impose my values. I suspect the issue will end in some kind of deadlock, because values are one of the hardest things to change, and they generally don't change in a forum like this.

Also, many people took great offense to my post, something I did not fully expect. I did not think so many people would be hurt by it. I think hurt feelings are the main reason for the attacks against me.

Right. Which is why I am thinking this thread should die, but given the hurt feelings it probably won't for a while. There is no way to impose your views either way in a forum like this.

Really, I don't agree with your premise. Saying that I like "delectable milky skin" is an expression like you will find in many literary works; Shakespeare wrote similar things, and no one called him a racist, suggesting he was making fairer-skinned women out to be more attractive.

Furthermore, and I don't mean to burst bubbles, but hippie festivals tend to be among the most ethnically homogeneous festivals out there comparable to NASCAR. The internet will naturally bring more diversity and there are undoubtedly people of color participating in this thread, but again the hippies are, and were, disproportionately White. I don't know what you are but I find that some of those most sensitive to these issues are White folks. In another thread I am involved in a prolonged debate with a fair-haired (or so he claims) Scotsman who, while far more to the left than me politically, would seem to approximate much closer to the National Socialist ideal than me. In theory hippie ideals are universal, and can be applied anywhere, however. (I am not saying hippies are racist, by the way).

I wonder, as a thought experiment, if I were a Black nationalist hippie and wrote the same exact post but wrote instead that I want to see "delectable chocolate skin against my body, not some cheap graffiti." I don't think it would then be called race-baiting.

I don't know, but I sure as hell will acknowledge that we get a unique mix of people here.

 

My 2cents: (maybe 5 cents, it's a bit long haha)

Well I like piercings much more than tattoos and even though injecting ink into your skin has been around for centuries as people have said, in all sorts of cultures doesn't mean it's a good thing. People have killed each other for centuries too but you wouldn't want to emulate that type of past-time. If something has been done for centuries or millenia, it still doesn't mean it's good OR bad actually, it just means it's been done for a long time, obviously expressing some kind of need.

Also think about today's cultural climate in the western countries, where I'd say most of the people on here are from:

There's a lack of genuine spirituality in mainstream society, everybody is told by the media and the establishments that they are an 'individual' and so as an individual, be cool, hip and free to buy coca-cola, buy this new suit or skirt, buy this new headphone and you'll be the coolest person on the train going to school or work, buy this perfume and you'll attract men etc..etc..etc..
But yet never has there been such an isolating time because this is false individuality geared towards furthering the current political and social climate of economic rationalism at all costs, and therefore younger people and any "free thinkers" are often relatively lost in this minefield of fake money culture.

Secondly everything changes so quickly, jobs change, people travel all over the globe, no certain career, no certainty of anything really, except change.

So, I think that tattoos and other things like this are a way of people feeling connected, permanently or just about, to at least SOMETHING... especially with connotations of the past, the ritualistic aspect of getting them done involving overcoming pain and fear and social pressures. It has all the hallmarks of a pre-technological society's initiation type ritual but now instead, it is done on one's own amongst peers instead of in a tribal familial setting as in the past.

What I do find distasteful about some tattoos is when somebody has such a thin line of reasoning for getting it done. It's always either Celtic, an Egyptian motif, or else some Chinese or Japanese character on the small of their back. If people are trying to be meaningful and individual how come they all look so similiar? Also when someone says that they have been around for centuries like old bands of soldiers would get them, running across the medieval forest landscapes, I just think well, you're not a medieval forest soldier who's likely going to get killed whilst fighting and travelling, you're a relatively affluent (in terms of the world) suburban girl/guy who's most dangerous encounter in the next 6 months will probably be something pretty damn tame compared to an axe-fight to the death in a snow-covered field full of dead bodies!

In English, many brands of products come out with a French name.. say for example a fictional perfume for women called "J'Adore".. hmmm so alluring, sensual and romantic! Well a french teacher was telling a friend of mine that in France, there are products that to achieve the same effect, actually have English names because that to them seems alluring and strange.
The point of mentioning this is, there's a big part of that going on I think, especially with Japanese type symbols on a girl's lower back in a yoga class, which means something like peace, strngeth, unity or something similiar... It's mainly because it looks foreign that it seems exotic.

To finish my own rant (haha) some tattoos have looked good on some girls to me (guys never look good with them to me) but usually colourful and small, relatively simple ones. I don't think anyone is necessarily ignorant, un-intelligent, or un-inspired by getting them, I just think that SOME people are and it's like any subcultural symbol, it can be a paradox as one of the reasons is to be different, but the more people that get them, the more they look the same.

 

hmm... i dont think it was a dickish statement. just an opinion, even though i do not agree. I <3 my tats.

 

why does it matter if tattoos were present in different cultures? a tattoo is a tattoo, no mater who had it and when it was wore.

and jesus christ why the fuck are you getting pissed off at lsd seeker. he was politely trying to make a valid statement. he wasnt calling you morons because you have tattoos. some people in this forum seem like they're trying to prove their open-mindedness by rebuking closed-minded ideas. if you want to be open-minded, let people say what they want.

 

Drummer, Ecstasia, Cheyenne, Lover, Seeker,

All your posts make alot of sense to me, and I appreciate the interaction. Seeker I want to apologize for sounding harsh/condesending to you. It was my objective to yoke some sense that the original post could have been more conducive to bringing about exchanges that tend to cause understanding about differences and that does
not tend to isolate people in negative way, but I ended up, to a significant extent,
tending to create isolation as well. However, I still feel the the original post produced
the effect of baiting , and clearly the context that Shakespeare wrote in was quite
different than the context that this post was placed. But this point, and aspect, of the original post, in my opinion, is secondary and an adjunct to the lack of awareness that I referred to. This lack of awareness is something that can be concieved of as
real, although I still have a sense that this is not acutally the case, and does not, in my opinion, justify a harsh response. I believe that the opposite response is the better
choice and I have learned a lesson here. I hope to hear from you, and it is good disscussing these issues with you.

Natural23

 

ok, back into the fray...

i think tattooing is a good thing, but i totally agree with cheyenne regarding this particular opposition to tattoos - even though the symbols themselves have meaning, they have no connection to so many that insist on getting them. the character tattoos in particular i don't like - who really knows what that says anyways?? (i found a good site for accurate chinese translations - not a tattoo site, btw) but why would you want something that has no personal connection permanantly applied to your body?

but, you can't fault the tattooist - people are very insistant sometimes on getting these types of tattoos, and the long & short of it, tattooists gotta eat too. it's their art, but also their job - i know my hubby wishes he only had to do the work he wanted to, or what he was inspired to do. it's not the artist's vision for sale, only his skill at reproducing the client's vision. we often get requests for these symbol tattoos, i gently try to dissuade the clients - sometimes i'll plop about 3 hours worth of flash & magazines in front of them & tell them to browse for their 'next' tattoo, and by the time they see all the amazing stuff that's being done they usually have changed their mind.

on another note, i think we are fully capable of discussing the pros & cons of tattooing without getting nasty with each other - please, let's try, anyways i'm so tired of going to the other forums and seeing everybody ripping into each other for stating an opinion, and then shoving their opinion down your throat like it's fact just because they believe it. body mod hasn't gotten out of hand yet, let's try to keep it civil.

 

id say tatoos are as old as cave paintings, and to me thats natural. getting a tat because its "hip" is rather silly and short sighted imo, so to that i agree. but to have my house that burned down, or my dead grandmothers name tatooed upon myself- well, if you call me a trend follower, i'll have to get in your face..

 

This is a very good point, perhaps best exemplified by the lame-assed barbed wire tattoos that so many got and which are now out of style.

 

Well personally I think if you have tattoos you should put it in a spot where you can hide them and be professional. People put them in spots where you cant see anyways haha.. naughty naughty lol jk

peace
chickens

 

I have two tatts, one i got yesterday. I have never, in my life, done something because it is hip or trendy or because someone else has it. I have my own mind. Those who get tatts for this reason are silly and unfortunetely for them, the novelty soon wears off. For me, i have them for me and because i love art. I think it's another way to see it as opposed to on canvas or in a book. I don't have them to show off, they're for me

 

I don't have any tatoos yet but I'm certain that I'm going to get one or two. And I'm not just saying that, I thought it over many many times. If I was going to get a tattoo, it would have to be of something that I won't regret getting later on in my life. So my first will be of something related to music because music is my life. Always has been, always will be.

All I gotta do is scrape up the cash.

 

i think getting a tattoo purely as some trend or some new gimic or just to fit in with the crowd or cos they think they will look cool is a bit stupid, but getting a tattoo that is personal to yourand means something you should express it.

i kinda see what LSDseeker is getting at, its like starting smoking because you think people will think you are cooler than if u didn't smoke, but really it doesn't in my opinion

 

Seeker,


These tattoos are not on your body, they are on someone else's body; so
why the intense passion on your part, not that it is not warranted but I am
interested in why ? I understand the idea that trend can 'water down' the
external perception of originality re a particular tattoo and that trend can be
strange and irksome if someone has been involved in a certain activity before
it became 'trendy' or even just by the idea that one perceives that people
believe that they are orignial when they appear not to be. But these are all
judgements connected to emotions that tell us about our own desires. I am
not judging the validity of any particular response, but why the passion on
your part ? Do you have any tattoos ? Is it that you care deeply about
teaching or warning people ? Is it that my perseption of your strong emotion
re this issue is inaccurate ?


23

 

I think so. I am not passionate about the issue of tattoos, I just decided to express a point of view to increase my participation in the forum, and the thread got a little out of hand. But it looks like it has cooled a little.

 

Seeker,

I don't think that it got 'out of hand'. I think that this is good healthy
interaction - this is what this forum is for. Further I think that there
is good 'give and take' here in terms of acknowledgement of truths
that might not been otherwise realized. I do not say that this is
absolute but this is the nature of life - we all learn and teach differently.
For me, this is a good workout - good relaxing exercise and enterainment.
I also believe that, actually, the issues that we discuss here, all of them,
on one level or another, are very important and as improbable as it
may seem cam have a significant effect in our world; both individually
and mutually.

23

 

typos !

 

and i think quotes like this are typically stereotypical...why get art that you cant share with the world...i eventually hope my kids generation are more open to peoples differences then even my own.....would you be scared if you saw me with tattoos on my neck and top of my hands and a 2 gage bone in my septum and piecings in the back of my neck...you probably would, even though on here i see preaching of one love and one nation...although some think that discludes whatever they want to turn their nose up at....interesting how hypocrytical people can be....