Why I don't argue/debate Christians anymore

I just wanted to use this quote as an example of why non-christians (and christians) get away with so many accusations that 'every interpretation is different' or 'see nobody even knows what to interpret"

Kharakov, sorry but this is from you but im not singling you out either:

Well its too bad we deserve to be harrassed over this when the answer is so simple it actually ends all these complaints about 'Its all interpretation'.

In this case, just snipping out the verse and leaving it hanging is confusing.
Does that mean you can eat Hemlock and it wont corrupt you?
Fire maybe?
Does it mean that we are fine to eat some peyote and nothing changes?

All along there is no need to be saying 'Whos interpretation!' when the Bible interprets itself.
All you have to do is look at the context, before and after.
Its refering to religious rulings on meats.
Its no biggie finding out what that means.
Its not the eating of the meat itself that makes a follower unclean as if the meat itself turned evil inside them.
Thats how backwards the legalists were going on this.

Im not gonna take that into a lofty exposition either but Im just making the point here that verses like this self interpreting and when we cant even take the easiest teachings as they are intended - then its no wonder the non-believers can point and taunt 'Seeeee.. they can interpret anything to mean anything among themselves so why should we care"
We are setting our own selves up on that one!

 

Which is why you must use judgement. What is the right time for certain acts?

 

When it is the right time, it is right.

There is even a right time to eat hemlock, for the death of the body does not corrupt a man.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'

The passage means exactly what it says:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "


Just hold your tongue when talking about gifts from God, otherwise you slander God with your false testimony against these gifts.

 

Kharakov, you're making a very esoteric and convoluted big deal out of simple and proven facts:

Using marijuana and LSD on a longterm basis can badly mess a person's mind up, and often the damage occurs in the short term, if one is particularly unsuited physiologically/psychologically.

I know, I've been on the battlefield and seen the body count with my own eyes. The generation that came of age in the 60's and 70's was the guinea pig for this stuff.

You're 30, I'm 56. Wait until you're 56 and take a look at your friends who never stopped smoking weed and dropping acid...the ones who are still alive.

Why do you think reputable spiritual teachers tell their students to not use these drugs? Don't answer that it's out of a need to control them...that won't fly.

 

Ya, I have to say this Kharakov.
You only have to get the most fundamental understanding of the culture and and the Law and what would obviously be meant when Jesus (a Jew talking to Jews) would mean by 'Untouchable' or 'Unclean' food. (sorry I dont recall the Hebrew spelling but I think its 'Tamei').
Now if there was any doubt - the fact he is referencing this to a controversy and something he is correcting - only establishes he is talking about 'Unclean Foods' which to them does mean Ceremonial Law.
(example, they were not to eat food that had been offered to idols, pork etc)
Honestly, this is the only way anyone listening would take it anyways.
Its not like Jesus.. just out of nowhere just decides to talk about food safety for no reason.

I cant disagree entirely that when he 'dumbs it down' he is even going so far as to include the idea that 'matter itself' is not what makes you spiritually clean or not but ultimately we are understanding Law and Grace and in this case the wrong turn of the law into religious practices gone wild.

All that said, I think you are really stretching it to take this so literally, word for word wooden that at any point this it drugs are included as a food group or something to be put in the stomach and there be no consequence.
Will putting Hemlock in your stomach, just in its own physical self change your spiritual condition.
Ok, No.
Did you terrible choice to drink hemlock juice say something about your spiritual condition - then yes lol.

So I have to think if you wanted to apply the teachings to your own life and Marijuana it would pretty much be saying this: Its not the 'actual marijuana' itself that is causing you Heart to be troubled - Its the Trouble in you Heart in the first place that is whats having you feel the need to get high and miss opportunities or have poor judgement or long term negative effects which take away your quality of life.
Dig?

 

You still judge against God's works when you judge against things God does. This is simply lack of faith.

I know people who still smoke 'weed' at the age of 56. They are still mentally 'sharp' (the biophysicist, the computer network engineer, the wound care nurse, the multimillionaire businessman/inventor). They use drugs responsibly (ie: not at work) and have satisfactory lives.

Because of their lack of faith in (and understanding of) God. Blind spiritual teachers only lead their students into the pit.

I have been told "Doing this is bad, this is a bad place to go, these people are bad, etc." by those who lack faith. I have done the things, gone to the places, hung out with the people, and experienced God's loving action during these experiences.

People accept negative stereotypes easily, although they are often wrong. There is the wide path of accepting false stereotypes of situations, and the narrow path of faith in God which opens your heart to the true good of the situations God creates.

 

I say the same to you. It is the trouble (evil) within your own heart that causes you to negatively judge these gifts from God and "feel the need to (abstain from) getting high and miss opportunities or have poor judgement or long term negative effects which take away your quality of life."

God does many things which make us feel temporarily different (you can walk outside into the cold air to experience one immediate change in your current experience that can show you the expansive knowledge of God). If God offers you something to change your interior condition, you can learn from and/or enjoy it too (you do every time you eat a sandwich).

Anyway, if you lack faith in God and you believe that drugs are evil (are going to hurt you) the experience of doing something which you believe takes you farther from God will be unpleasant (because of your own belief that doing the action takes you farther from God, which is actually the only thing leading your mind away from God).

 

Well if you honestly think and demonstrate that you are growing in Grace and knowledge of our Lord by getting high - then I suppose you got something there Kharakov.
I suppose I would be concerned about whether you ARE growing in yoru faith or if you are just so high that you 'think' you are growing.
I see a whole lot of people high on weed who are absolutely convinced that it helps them think and concentrate and be creative.
I once worked in a kitchen with a group of them.
I literally had to work four peoples jobs at once because they were slow, ineffective, thinking of 'creative' ideas which were actually very stupid and dull ideas (but if your high you 'think' its a new discovery apparently).

The other thing I would look at is the prisons, detox centres and overall 'fruits of the labour' seen in the lives of chronic drug users/abusers.
It almost NEVER goes very well.
I come in contact with all of those segments and places and people on a daily basis and its just the worst things you can imagine.
I mean seriously - its just awful the consequences .. more than most of us would even think about.

Are you the one person who has beat the racket and figured out a way to benefit from drug use?
Well maybe but I really think you might talk about the majority of people who dont - in fact they bring a horrific and life-destroying curse on themselves as a result.

 

.

 

Kharakov, buddy, I'm not going to go beyond my last post, other than to agree with you on one point and say yes, the majority of people who use/have used drugs do survive, but for the large minority that don't, it isn't pretty. For myself, I am very anti hallucinogen and hard drug use, even though I believe justice and basic human rights demand that some of these be made legal or decriminalized.

Oh, and by the way, you need to drop the pose of superior spiritual understanding...you sound like you're on drugs a lot of the time.

Subject closed.

 

It helps. So does appreciating a good meal or story.

I am high a small percentage of the time. It's simply another aspect of the life that God has given me.

It helps you see that your inspiration comes from 'outside', even the inspiration we do not fully understand.

" 38As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed.[a] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." "

Opening up to the greater pleasures God grants us opens us up to greater judgement. If you partake in the pleasures without faith, God will guide you out of your actions by discipline.

No.

Because they elevate the drug above God in their mind (which results in God frowning upon them- you can sense when a person is upset with you when you are in the room with them, people don't realise that their own feelings of displeasure are a reflection of God's displeasure). One lifetime of discipline should cure this.

 

See, really that is following God isn't it? being true to your beliefs, to yourself and your own morals. thats cool besides whatever you do kids will always do the opposite lol
peace bro