Why I believe in a Higher Power.

Well until that happens, it's not real.

 

first of all this argument is highly dependent on your definition of consciousness.

example: say hypothetically that we evolved from apes, does this mean apes have no conciousness because they cant communicate their ideas with us??

similarly: imagine an early earth, with conditions that favor chemical reactions that one day synthesize organic compounds. now billions of years later we have evolved from those organic compounds. so this way we could have come from something unconcious.

this is actually happening in your penut butter right now as microorganisms are growing and new ones being introduced every day. so yes, even your penut butter can produce life, you just have to know the science behind it!

 

The evolution of brain processing power (similar to computer logic circuits) has no apparent connection to the concept of self-awareness. It sheds no light on why I experience being me, and not you, or your next door neighbor. Until a better explanation comes along, a spiritual-dimension causal link to a Higher Power is as good as any other theory.

 

yes evolution and "what is consciousness" are two separate issues. also, when you make a hypothesis you have to base it on some educated ideas. you cant just make a hypothesis based on random nothingness. for example just because there is no better theory doest make your theory any more valid. with that logic i could say that we have a spiritual link with a flying spaghetti monster that exists in a another spiritual dimension.

so my point is this: first of all i dont think you are wrong, because i dont know the answer myself. but i would like to know what evidence you have that points to us having a spiritual-dimension link with a higher power.

 

Which is why I did not refer to a specific higher power with defined attributes.

I am not aware of any evidence regarding the subject of self-awareness that meets scientific criteria.

 

yes i agree but the mere mention of any higher power without evidence is going into the realm of speculation.

actually if you think about it, proposing ANY idea without evidence is speculation.

why a higher power? why not an equal power? maybe we are all spiritually linked with each other and not a higher power. why not a lower power? maybe some being in a lower dimension made a mistake and created our dimension?

 

Not speculation. Philosophy. It picks up where science leaves off, where the trail of evidence comes to an end.

Interesting ideas to ponder in the philosophical realm. God appears to make a lot of mistakes.

 

That's not evidence for a higher power or the immaterial. That's evidence that other people can have similar physical experiences to you. You seem to have taken a physical experience that was foreign to you and arbitrarily assigned it whatever meaning you felt like. If I had a seizure but didn't know what it was but reasoned that it must be a spiritual experience, does that make it a spiritual experience? It's not evidence for the immaterial so stop being so condescending to people who don't know what you're talking about. Many people would take your experience and instead of calling it a spiritual experience would say "I don't know what that was".

Here, read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience Abraham Maslow describes something called peak experience. He could have been like you and decided on a whim that peak experience has spiritual significance, but he didn't. Because he had no evidence for the immaterial and neither do you. Such experiences can be induced by psychedelic drugs and thus, there is evidence that such experiences can be in fact purely mental and physical.

 

i think the peanut butter argument i mena im gonna look at it from this point of view.


the peanut butter is locked in a jar, and not exposed to any of the material neseccary to create life.


i dont konw where consciousness comes from, it weirds me out man!! but i like it so im not complainin, just not explainin either. lol.

a flyin spaghetti monster dude?!?!?! lol. man, we used tochill all the time, cept i got hungry and ate him.

 

I b'lieve in a higher powder.

 

What do you base the idea that anything unconscious could not create something conscious? And for what reason do you only give peanut butter 2 years to become self-aware? Your assertions are random.

But what I really never get about this argument... there must be a creator because there HAS to be... is that no one ever wonders what created the creator. The same argument must be applied to idea of the creator, and now you've got to say that if creation is too awesome to have just happened, why isn't the creator of awesome creation not too cool to have just happened? He's got to be even more awesome, and therefor even more impossible to have just sprang up. But the deists never go there for some reason...

 

Simple logic states that to use logic to posit that which can not be perceived is fallacious.

Also, threadstarter, if you're going to try to use logic to prove anything, actually use logic. You need 2 premises, not one and then a statement. Idiot.

 

Actually i've heard removing the stick from your asshole can really help you relax.

 

Such remarks don't count as a rebuttal. So you had a hideously illogical argument and tried to pass it off as perfect logic to justify irrational beliefs, just apologize and we can be on our way.

 

It was no rebuttal. The point is, I beleive in a higher power because it makes no sense to me that something unconcious can create something concious.

 

But that's not logic. That's a belief that you've arrived at completely arbitrarily and isn't satisfactory for the conclusion that there is a higher power. "Something" doesn't have to create that which is conscious. That which can become conscious (matter) can just as easily simply be existing without having to be created.

 

ha

 

You know, logic has nothing to do with many religions or faiths.

 

Agreed. She tried to use logic to prove the existence of God. I exposed her fallacious argument.

 

Could you explain to me what makes something conscious as opposed to not? And explain to me what consciousness is, and what causes it?

Logic and reasoning many times blends with faith. They can both be very faulty.