Why do we have to pay for everything?

well i know college doesnt have the ultimate say...

but in my sociology classes n such they give good statistics that seem to be sound. a feminist lie? wrote by men and taught in higher ed classes?
no white pres in the us yet?

yeah it exists...its not a feminist lie

 

in any case...

sexism is real on both sides. iron goth... i get mad at you in this thread (n i just read it all), but you have good points...but you're SOOOO extreme. you are the reason lots of people hate extreme feminists.

BUT i know that you have obviously been hurt... ive had times where i have said "i HATE guys...they're more aggresive, insensitive... im DONE with them!"- like a school girl tantrum. lol

but i was hurting and not all guys are like that and lots of girls are like that.

my point is, i hope you find peace cause i feel your pain......

 

Did you read my post about my dh's company and how different sexes are steered, no, PLACED, into different jobs, when they come to the company with the same skills or lack of them? http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1721595&postcount=37 Womyn are placed in the dead end, low paying jobs, the men are placed in the upwardly moble jobs, with good salaries. There is NO difference between the people who apply and get the Assembler jobs (top salary $30,000) and the Tech jobs (top salary $80,000) except sex. That's it.

My dh once complained that one of the Engineers was a female and getting about $3,000 more a year than he was. I realized a while later that SHE had a PhD and he had a BS. (so her 4-5 exta years in college only netted her 3 grand.) He was still going on about "Womyn are getting more than I am." (Considering, at the time she was the ONLY womyn Engineer who had been hired in his department.) That's when the whole Tech vs. Assembler thing came up. Never heard an other word about a womyn with a PhD getting more than him again. Especially since the men with PhDs in his company make considerably more than she does. This is NOT an isolated case. It is rare for men and womyn to get equal pay, and more often, womyn are steered into the jobs which will never get a decent salary, no matter how long she stays there.

 

Every where I have been there has been no difference solely due to gender in any positions or salaries. In addition, every female who I have asked has also stated that they have never personally seen a bias anywhere they had worked either. I will admit that there are far more males with PhDs in upper level positions, but that is mainly because, from my experience, many of the females persuing their PhDs drop out because they choose to begin a family over attaining a PhD. I think in most cases where it seems that gender was the only bias that there were other factors that the decision or placement was based on and gender biasing was just an excuse or cry for inequality from frustrated individuals.

 

I dunno. I've seen it. I used to work at this fruit basket factory. The boss was this big fat cat asshole who flirted with all of his female emplyees. He would call them "the girls" or sometimes "my girls", and they would all have the job of making the fruit baskets. He hired less men, and our job was to package the fruit baskets and lug things around the warehouse. Now there are plenty of arguments to be made on both sides about who gets the shorter end of the stick. Men tend to have more dangerous, less pleasant jobs, for instance. But there's no denying that the stick has two sides.

But we digress. I think that it's a real problem how men have internalised this idea that we have to provide all of the money. Both Feelin' Groovy and Unspoken Things said that they feel a desire to pick up the bill, even though they're poor like the rest of us, and that they don't know where it came from.

 

RE: Did you read my post about my dh's company and how different sexes are steered, no, PLACED, into different jobs, when they come to the company with the same skills or lack of them?

Yeah, but that still isn't unequal pay for equal work.

Have you wondered why that is? Cause the men stick around, whereas with women you invest time energy and training in upwardly mobiling someone... who ends up saying "well that was fun. I'm off to have my baby now, and I would like to come back two days a week and do you offer daycare?" Far easier to get rid of a grunt than someone on a career track.

THAT I disagree with right there.

 

This is really pathetic. We have a raging argument for over a week. A hundred posts. And then we finaly finnish the argument and it's time to get on to constructing conversation, and... silence.

 

from what I've seen we don't deal with settled dust well here.......

 

well, i already stated my case and practical applications. after that it's just banging your head against a wall, or teaching a pig to whistle, i guess.

 

Oh, man. I such an experience with this on Saturday night. I went over my friend Nikki's house. It was her birthday, and a bunch of people were coming over. Go her.

So anyway, I brought an eighth of middies that I'd bought for $30 (this is NJ), and had smelled once the previous day. This much, um, flowers, will usually last me for about a week, a week and a half.

I walked out of that party with none left. Now I was planning to, um, smell some with Nikki. I always do when I go over their house. They're good people and all. But this was ridiculous. There were hot girls at the party. Hot girls, woohoo! And while I usually refer to women as, well, women, these were certainly girls. The way they treated me pissed me off so much!

Of course, they wanted to, er, smell, all of my, um, flowers. But I didn't want to because they're expensive. So I would give it to them if they would give me money. For some reason, this really surprised them. "Couldn't you just smell them with us for free?" she would say, snuggling up close to me and putting her hands on me. "No. I've already [smelled] as many [flowers] as I want to tonight. You can have some, but it'll cost you."

Anyway, when I'd tell the men there no, they'd just be like "OK" or "here's some money." But there were these two women who kept on trying their sex appeal on me. And it made me feel cheap and useless and like they only liked me for my, um, flowers. What a couple of money grubbing whores!

 

I did end up giving it to a couple of guys who had money, BTW, and they smoked it with them.

 

Well, I think 'girls' always try to do that around guys to get what they want, that does not make them "whores". And ofcourse they might have thought that you would give them the flowers because they are "hot". But I guess you stayed indifferent which made it interesting to them somehow.

The most immature type of attitude I saw was back in high school, when everyone was trying to make fun of what I said in my english class about staying aloof to things. This girl from a bunch kept on showing me her underwear- "thong". She would say "do you want to see my thong?" and she would pull it out from the top of her skirt or whatever she was wearing that day. It was amusement for all of her other friends as they laughed and giggled every time she did that, while I was just laughing inside at their stupidity and her naive way of trying to make fun of me. The funny thing is... i don't remember what my teacher did about it. Anyway, this was in my spanish class and we sat at the back... maybe thats why... I don't know.

 

well, if you were into their behavior (the flower grubbers, lol) then seriously, no harm done. if you weren't and you didn't get... um... suckered into sharing, then no harm done. but if you think only women do that, you're wrong.

 

I disagree, I mean lets face it, men are not "beautiful" and there are more factors affecting what women see as "attractive", so I don't think men can really use sexual attraction to get things from women, like women do.

 

bull puckey. there's been many times in my life when i've been manipulated by a beautiful male. i think it's why i've developed a bit of a prejudice against the pretty boys. men do use their appeal, all the time. you should see the shit my brother jb would sucker out of his sugar-mama girlfriends. brad, too, to a lesser extent, but i was pretty disgusted at how stupid their girlfriends could be. they'd be buying brad and jb all sorts of shit, taking care of them and stuff, while my brothers would be out fucking their way through the female population AND not being nice to their girlfriends. it's the same thing as women using their own appeal.

 

I've never seen a guy walking around in a skirt that reveals everything below his ass but I see girls in them every day.

 

so you think that only women are capable of being seen as attractive? that women are the only ones capable of exploiting their sexual appeal? give me a break. that's just silly.

 

if a girl is all GAGA over a guy, then okay. But a guy whom you have never met? you think he can control you only by looks? If you say yes, well, no guy can argue with you because no guy will have an experience like you would, so we just have to take your word for it.

 

well, you should. both sexes are perfectly capable of being manipulated by the other. i've seen it, it happens. a charming, attractive man is just as capable of using his looks to manipulate the opposite sex as a hot chick. i've watched my big brother all my life. he's a pro. but i'm not going to pity all the dumb chicks who fall for it. they're their own problem. but it's probably why i have a thing against pretty boys.

 

exactly. I understand if it's a financial issue and will have no problem paying sometimes if it's that I've done it before. I would and could never go for the whole 50 50 thing but if a guy doesn't have it I'm not going to not like him or not be with him because of it. but no i would never date somone who was cheap-ever. if the guy doesn't pay for the first couple of dates and do the flowers and the whole deal there's a million guys who will/ I was watching desperate housewifes tonight and I swear they stole my ex and my line. when we would fight before he lost his company once i said 'why do rich men always have to be asssholes' and he would reply 'why are all beautiful women bitches'? It must be a common saying between many couples but my mom and I were cracking up because i told her about that particular fight he and I had a couple of years ago. I'm sorry men are so picky about looks so i find it funny when you complain about freaking dinner. i would never date a guy who complained about me not paying for enough...ewww it would turn me off so fast.