Why do atheists spend so much time arguing about the existence of God?

If you don't think that religion has played apart in any of the war's in the 20th century I'd have to think you may be some kind of religious fundamentalist or something,

Saying that in my opinion sounds like saying to a Auschwitz survivor that there was no holocausts.

 

What do you mean by played a part? If by that you mean that the countries involved were mostly made up of people who were religious then I’d have to agree but if you’re saying the wars were started or fought for religious reasons then I’d have to say you're way off base.

As for Auschwitz and the Holocaust, yes they happened! I’ve talked to those who have been in the camps, believe me it happened!

But if you’re saying the Jews were persecuted for religious reasons, I’d have to ask then why were the secular Jews persecuted, some of which were atheistic, and why were Jews who were Christians persecuted and why were some persecuted just because they looked like Jews? It would seem that the persecution was more racial than religious.

 

"it is a religion in that Judaism is a belief system with ritual and practice, and an underlying philosophy aimed at a connection to the divine and an adherence to divine command, but it is a race in that membership in the system (even without belief!) is passed through a genetic connection -- you cannot choose not to be Jewish if you are born in. However, because Judaism recognizes conversion, the religion cannot be purely racial (you cannot convert to another race). Therefore, it is easiest to say that it is a religion with racial/genetic components."


The Nazi's killed Jew's for many reason's, one being religious bigotry.

If it weren't for religion there would be no one labeled "Jew" to begin with. And that being said at LEAST one less reason to kill and distrust each other.

 

The point is the war was not started or fought for religious reasons. It was started and fought because Hitler wanted to rule the world, plain and simple. It was a political war not a religious one. Which is what I said in the first place.

 

Hitler wanted to rule the world and he used religious bigotry and superstition to help sway the people he would latter form to be the Nazi party.

Religion is a tool used to proliferate and start wars.

 

I saw an interview with Hitler's propaganda filmmaker, Fritz Hippler ("The Eternal Jew"), who said 1930s/40s Germans were no more antisemitic than any other nationality. But he was very proud that he and Goebbels were able to tap that latent religious bigotry and turn it into a national cause. So, according to him, they knew what they were doing and it was based on religious bigotry. It helped their political ambitions.

 

I'm not an expert on Hitler but that sounds pretty sound to me.

I'd still say religion causes war.

 

Whatever, I can see that to you religion is the big bad bogyman. Well I hate to break it to you, it's not. If religion was completely gone as you seem to want, there would still be hatred, bigotry, ignorance and wars and if the atheistic USSR is any example, the world would actually be worse off.

 

I know the world would still be a shitty place if there were no religion.

It would just be a little less shitty is all I'm saying.

I know people will continue to kill each other but at least it wouldn't be to please a non existent entity.

Humans are afraid to die and there is nothing wrong with that belief.

I just wish they were as afraid to kill in equal measure.

 

they just cant figure out how believers cant see such an obvious thing that God is what man has invented to simplify his life

 

Sorry, how was it a stupid statement to point out that not everyone, not even MOST people, who subscribe to a religion are the warmongers that you are painting them as? Your entire argument seems to hinge on religion causing wars and conflicts, but you only seem to be able to make that point by ignoring the evidence.

Some people will argue that listening to heavy metal makes you a killer because a few killers listened to heavy metal. Should we give your views the credence we give theirs?

And Okie's right, pretty much every religious war I'm aware of, certainly of recent years, has been politically motivated with religion used to mobilise people. You can kid yourself that getting rid of religion would prevent people from being mobilised in such a way, but you'd be absolutely wrong. Take away religion and you've still got nationalism, fear, racism, pride, and a host of other things that have no factual grounding but which you'd be an idiot to call supernatural.

The fact is, rationalism would never prevent a war. If one nation is weaker than the other, the stronger nation decides to invade based on entirely rational ideas - will it make them appear stronger? will it make them look bad? what will they gain from it?, etc. If you seriously think that this is going to change purely because we don't believe in supernatural beings, you need to do some research. I am not saying that we will become totally immoral as a result of losing our religion, but I fail to see how it's going to help when the reasons for war as totally unsupernatural and everything to do with the fundamentally natural.

 

I believe I said in the post your quoting me from that I DID NOT believe getting rid of religion would solve all of the worlds problem's it would just be a great start.

Are you taking offense to what I say because you are religious or because your are atheist?

There are no ghost's so why should we believe in them?

 

And I disagree. I don't think it would have any serious impact besides pissing a lot of people off when you tell them "you can't believe what you want to anymore and that, oh, by the way, I'm not going to tell you what you should believe instead."

People don't hold religious beliefs because they think it's funny. They hold them because they find them comforting. You would take that comfort away from them, but what would you give them? What incentive could you provide them to not just ignore you and go back to having religions again?

I'm not trying to be a dick here, I just don't think you understand why people have religions in the first place, since you seem to think they'll give it up for Science, whatever that is.

I'm not taking offense; I just think you're wrong. Do you think what you're saying is offensive?

Do you want the actual answer to this?

 

When I say no more religion I don't mean in a military sense where it is outlawed on the planet.

I mean in a sense that people realize how foolish believing in the supernatural is and toss it aside like an old toy that they have outgrown. (I know this won't happen)

I know why people are religious in the first place, because they are scared of death and the unknown in whatever shape it may take.

We all are and it's fine.

 

How else would it happen? Religion has resisted even forcible, military attempts to extinguish it. Why would non-violent methods work any better?

Yes, you're right. It won't. But not because people are fools, as I believe you go on to illustrate:

So why is one reaction to death okay and one reaction not okay? Who are you to judge?

 

If someones reaction to death is to meditate while monks chant prayer with in scents burning I'm fine with it.

If it's to explode in a scene of gore killing another religious crack pot with a suicide bomb I'm not fine with it.(I guess I'm just a humanitarian that way)

My "no more religion stance is of course rhetorical unfortunately most of mankind isn't ready to put it's toys away.

 

Why? It's a belief in the supernatural. It HARMS REALITY, remember?

But if they don't do it in the name of religion, it's alright, right?

Your stance is a mess. If you're anti-violence (religious or otherwise), why not just say that? If you're anti-religion (violent or otherwise), why not just say that?

 

A great start? How so? The USSR was an atheistic state and it didn't provide them with any great start.

 

I'm pro truth not anti anything, when did my stance change?

The belief in the supernatural is stupid if people want to go on doing so (which they will) that's fine it doesen't normally effect me.

When they start murdering each other and my fellow country men to show there god is the best god it does more than upset me.

What is your stance on this?

 

Pro-truth? and who decides what the truth is, You?

The belief in the supernatural is stupid? Why? Because you think so?

A murderer is a murderer and should be treated as such regardless of their reasons for doing so. To do other wise would be injustice.