Why can't we all just be happy?

But is that what Sri Aurobindo meant?

Nirvana is a sandhi or composite word that can be split in many ways and so it's meanings are many. Most of these refer to a state of perfect detachment, or non-desire, or passionlessness. In this sense, there very much can be a world-embracing nirvana, because purelove is where there is no desire or attachment or clinging, no possessing, no owning, just being. Therefore, it is in fact the only way you could possibly embrace the world - because it is total neutrality and in action it is working for the benefit of all. It is not embracing an illusion, it is enjoying a lucid dream.

Show me where it is said and then I can examine the implications.

If you think advaita is not a philosophy of transforming the world, you have not understood anything about it all. Advaita is simply being the change you wish to see in the world. We want the world to be happy - so become bliss incarnate. Only then can you give joy to others. A dry well gives no water, nor can a beggar distribute charity.

It is inherent in all spiritual paths if thine eye be one.

 

It's hard, if not impossible to concieve how a supramental or gnostic race as Sri A calls it could exist other than as individual beings. Even a slight familiarity with his works would clearly reveal that he didn't accept the notion of an illusory universe, but said that it is real, and that the anhilation of the individual is not the goal, but the transformation of the individual. As I've said here before, I don't accept Sri A's system unreservedly, as I see many problems with it overall, but I think it's a step in the right direction on some levels.

Nir = not Vana = turning. D.T. Suzuki.(essays in Zen Buddhism)

Not much point in transforming illusion or dream. It would only be another illusion or dream.
And since the individual is non existent, our wish for the world to be happy is one aspect of illusion seeking to work on another. Also, any wish one entertains is only a block to being open without reservation to the will of God.
Also don't forget that neither beggar nor well actually exist.

I don't think so.

But really this is a pointless discussion. Neither party is likely to change their minds. I find the idea of a world which is merely an illusion or dream totally unacceptable. If you think all spiritual paths say or imply this, I suggest you need to do some further research.

 

The world would be a very depressing place if every one were happy.......

 

that's a silly thought. one that many beliefs contribute to implanting in our subconscous. one that many erroniously believe to be in their intrests to have planted in the subconscous of everyone else.

there is no reason we can't alow ourselves to enjoy and create such conditions as would not prevent anyone from being able to.

but there are reasons many people seem to think other things are more important and these they immagine to be good ones.

i firmly believe they are utterly and thoroughly mistaken to immagine them to be.

there are some other things to consider though. for one, the pseudo-sophestries of excitement addiction do not make it so. nor, unfortunately, do good intentions alone, and the arbitrary cookbooks of organized beliefs, however well meaning their origens, do not do so either.

only the motivations collectively created by the priorities we actualy live by can do so. nor is this mechanism entirely obvious and intuitive.

pretending to be happy only helps others to immagine that they are. sometimes even this IS an improvement though, so i would not condem it utterly. only the pretentiousness and self deception of it.

but conditions ARE caused by policies motivated by incentives, and incentives, well statisticly we all contribute to creating them, and to repeat myself, it is the priorities we actualy live by that is the means by which we do so.

that's the main thing to understand if we ever want this world, or any world, to be one in which we all CAN be happy.

=^^=
.../\...

 

does the individual even exist to transform?

 

You sir are absolutely right!, but you see, these priorities should not be "gaining" or "losing" something- unless that something is a positive behavior like not eating too much sugar etc. or not shooting out hateful words ... everyone including me needs to learn to go more towards self control, and all of us should turn our attention with in and truly understand ourselves therefore understand others in the same light

 

That's a conclusion you have to reach for yourself, based on experiences, knowledge etc. The alternative is to accept the version of some authority or teacher.
In my view, as I think I've made clear, the individual does exist, as does a real universe.

 

k bill

 

*wry smile*

 

I thought these words from Bede Griffiths fit well into this thread. It shows clearly enough that SP etc, are not alone in saying the individual is real, and the destiny of the individual is not to be 'dissolved in God'.
Not that I think of Bede Griffiths as a 'guru' -
I'm quoting him simply because I happen to agree with what he says here.



From Bede Griffiths:



"Let me tell you first what I not seeing. I do not see all things and beings as being One Thing undifferentiated. Each thing and each being seem and are, unique, holy, far more unique and holy than I ever understood before. The universe in this state does not disappear into a radiant whole. And yet while each thing is differentiated, they are also obviously and profoundly related, contained , in fact, in a deeper unity and always part of it…….In Christian mystical terms you might say that I am coming to see the universe as the body of the cosmic Christ and of myself as a living cell in that body, part of all things, yet not lost in them, but completely ‘myself’. We are all one in God and one in each other, but the miracle of this relationship is that we are not dissolved in it; we are found in – or born into – our total being ‘as persons within the Person’ as St. Augustine said, or if you like as different shapes of the One Fire.

The great mistake some Indian thinkers, both Hindu and Buddhist have made is to see this state or union as one in which the creation and all beings are recognized as dreams or illusions. This is not true. I cannot say it strongly enough."

 

However BBB, the goal of the human life is to have a union of the soul with God, although such union does not mean dissolution into God and annihilation of the 'self', thinking the seperate "you" as an illusion is itself an illusion.

 

Which is clearly what is said in the piece I posted if you trouble to read it.

 

Okay, I will stop preaching

 

your insanity may be due to a harsh renunciation of the world done without the grace of enlightenment... you might want to consider periodic masteurbation or other means of discharging semen... use protection

 

I wanted to not reply, but couldn't resist for such a thoughtful comment as above should not go ignored, I am sure you were going to change the world with that comment of yours, that I presented in my quotes just for you to read again, MollyTheHippy, well just wanted to say thank you for your comment and it does not matter whom you direct that to I guess, it will have the same awesome effect.

 

It does take people some time to realise the good feeling is inside them.