Why Atheism Is A Religion

This entire conversation is revealing that much more how cemented Atheist's BELIEFS are in the non-existence of God if they can't even have the humility to truly and openly embrace all possibilities on a deathbed.

 

I wouldn't mind that. I already know that that's what's happening to my organism anyway. Has nothing to do with whether there is an afterlife or whether God exists or not.

 

Actually, any rational person should be offended by someone praying for them. I'd say, "You know what, instead go pick your ass for me. At least picking your ass will accomplish something".

 

Actually, only a smug Atheist would see someone praying for you as offensive. An open-minded person, even if they don't pray themselves, wouldn't mind in the least bit.

 

Depending on the circumstances, many people on their deathbed are suffering from some disease and possibly pumped full of narcotic drugs so it might not even be the best time to make a rash decision about such a thing. Others weigh possibilites throughout their life and at a certain point likely are just comfortable with their understanding of the cosmos.

 

Waste of resources, like arguing with idiots.

 

Such is the way with Religion, and Atheism is no exception.

 

Yes, because you actually KNOW for certain what happens once you die and whether God exists or not, correct?

 

A rational person would make no big deal about it if they would conclude it makes no real difference to them. Claiming everyone should be offended (for what reason?) sounds quite irrational actually.

Why? Does Relaxx or Mr. Writer reperesent every atheist in the world? You are making the same mistake a lot of agitating atheists make about christians: assume they all believe and think the same.

 

Going off of my own personal accounts with Atheist friends, and encountering them online, there are certain similarities that are unavoidable to notice, as with any Religion.

How many Atheists would actually allow someone to pray for them on their deathbed? Most likely, a minority.

 

I think it is still an assumption that could be wrong. Most atheists I know wouldn't give a shit and some even appreciate the thought.

edit: the problem with people like you and relaxxx etc. is that you guys have a problem with a specific group of people and are out to stereotype them.

It is ok to think atheism is a religion. Why the hell should anybody else care you and a few others regard it as such? But if you pose a stereotype as fact you will always have people disagreeing with you.

 

Would be an interesting survey

 

I think it's difficult to generalize the opinions of "atheists" as a group (who span from saints to sinners and idiots to geniuses) towards a concept as broad and deep as "authority".

To put this into perspective, we could categorize the entire Protestant Christian movement as a giant middle finger to Roman Authority.

If I felt like expressing "fuck authority", then I would express it. You imply that is something to be embarassed about, or am I misreading that? Should we not consider authority to be something to be fucked?

The question posed to you is "Do you think there is a deity?"

Believers answer "Yes, of course", which seems fine to you

Atheists answer "I don't think so" or "definitely not", which seems "too cerebral" to you.

Why? Why aren't the believers also presenting an answer which is "cerebral"? Have they not used their reason to arrive at their conclusion? Have they not weighed evidence and utilized methods of analysis to determine what their answer to this question is?

What exactly is bad with being cerebral, can you explain? One of the maxims I live by is "The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates. Do you have a reason why I should reject this maxim?

Tell you what, I'll let you pray on my deathbed for me if you let me read out loud Lucretius' epic didactic latin poem On The Nature of Things while you are in labour giving birth to your first child. After all, what's the big deal? How could you possibly be so dogmatic that you would refuse this? Simply explain to your friends and family that your birth process will be having a slight detour, because after all, a religious atheist wishes to express his freedom of religion during your labor pains. Thank you so much for the honor.

In case the sarcasm flies over your head, my point is, maybe it's none of your business what a dying person wants and doesn't want in their last moments of life? Would you appreciate it if a muslim cleric insisted on lyrically reciting the Quran during your death? You'd want to allow that kind of infringement into such a precious moment of your life just in order to appease some strange sense of "being fair"? You obviously wouldn't. Please don't even come here and lie and say that you would be fine with anybody saying anything against your wishes at your death bed. You absolutely wouldn't want to spend your last few moments being lectured at by a scientologist explaining to you how your Thetans will now be set free. It's no different with an atheist not wanting to be around things he or she has zero interest in.

I have no interest in a christian praying for me at my deathbed for the same reason that I don't want a trump supporter espousing his love for trump on my deathbed. I also don't want my last drink to be Fanta. I don't even dislike Fanta; it's just not what I want as my last drink. Does that make me dogmatic when it comes to sugary beverages?

Does intellectual honesty mean anything to you? How about personal integrity? How about courage? Why would I do something that I think is silly, upon my deathbed? How about on your deathbed, I come by and tell you to empty your bank account into my fund for the Great Spaghetti Monster. Sure, it's silly, but why don't you do it! Just in case! I mean, maybe you'll end up in the Great Pasta Bowl in the Sky! Or maybe not, no harm done. But what if you incur the wrath of His Noodly Appendages?

Unfortunately the "do it just in case" argument is called Pascal's Wager, and it's absolutely silly, not even respected by most of the world's theological community.

If you really think that a smart strategy is to include a religious ceremony upon your death bed, you'd better cover your bases by including all the religions in the world, of which there are hundreds of thousands of variants. There are 40,000 denominations of christianity alone . . . and they disagree on some pretty major issues. Some would even say that it's too late, you are not saved through grace, but through works, and having lived life as a non-believer, it's too late. It might be logistically difficult to get the Sunni cleric and the Shiite cleric to even act respectably in a room together. Certainly you'd be missing out on a vast number of tribal religions from the jungles of africa and south america and the plains of asia. How could you be sure that you covered your butt? Wait, what if there is a God, and he finds it extremely offensive and sad that you spend your last moments tossing dignity out the window and swearing allegiance to anything you can in order to secure yourself everlasting life? What if God wants only one thing from us, and that is to live a life which teaches us to die with dignity? Shoot, now you REALLY blew it!

 

Tell you what, Writer, when I'm on my deathbed, you can be there, and I'll also invite a representative of EVERY Religion and have them give me their side as well. Fuck off with your "intellectual honesty" bullshit, as if anything intellectual is even relevant when you are nearing death. In my last moments of my life, I would be more than happy to contemplate all the different perspectives.

 

There's nothing that sounds more smug than your responses.

If you really want to start fucking authority, then you better start with your own profession: Science.

The fact is that THIS is the difference between an Agnostic and an Atheist. I know you thought I was mis-educated on terminology even though that turned out to be yourself, but an Agnostic would more likely than not be very intrigued by hearing and getting many viewpoints right before they die. If they want to be alone, that is also fine. But they certainly wouldn't be "offended" or just trying to "be fair" by allowing people to give them a whole lot of perspectives on death and life. An Atheist obviously cannot handle this because of their dogma.

But perhaps this would in fact break down when they ACTUALLY encounter their deathbed. Perhaps they will allow themselves to be humbled. As the saying goes, "there's no atheists in foxholes". Only the most stubborn Atheists would continue with their smug pride in refusing someone to pray for you, acting as if they actually know ANYTHING about what happens once you're dead. Atheists are as sure of themselves as Christians, if not moreso. That's the most pathetic part.

Facing death is about finally facing the fact that no matter what your belief system is, including Atheism, it's about finally facing the fact that you truly DO NOT KNOW what happens next. Anyone, theist or atheist, who pretends that they do know, is lying to themselves. This is why Atheism is just another Religion, because it PRETENDS THAT IT KNOWS what the truth is just as much as any other belief system.

 

I don't think Writer's question is directed to you...But regardless would you rather replace blind obedience or ignorance to intellectual honesty?

You seem to have this disconnect with what you are saying in your second sentence, which seems like you want to strive towards intellectual honesty compared to your knee-jerk reaction in the the first sentence, which appears like an irrational emotional response.

 

Intellectual ANYTHING is irrelevant when you are on your deathbed. I would simply love to soak in every perspective if I were in that position, and perhaps take some Acid as well. There's nothing intellectually dishonest about any of this, and neither is there any blind faith or ignorance in allowing someone to pray for me.

Your second point is simply incorrect. TheSamantha is simply making the point that there's no harm in allowing someone to pray for you, even if you're not a strict believer in the religion of the one who is praying for you.

 

Saying "fuck off..." in this type of discussion to anything is a knee-jerk reaction, so no my point is not "simply" incorrect no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

 

Whatever you say. Knee-jerk or not, you are incorrect regarding the "disconnect" of my point.

 

Then what are you attempting to be if not intellectually honest by contemplating different viewpoints?