Who is more likely to go to heaven?

What if God chose to reveal Himself to man, His creation?

 

Well if its a metaphor it sure is a poor one.

 

I will read this whole thread in just a sec. and probably comment further but for now I will say... the christian religion says the first person would go to hell and the second... eternal damnation in hell.

i do not believe in that and i do not believe it is right and if there really IS a god like that....

fuck him. id rather go to hell.

if that was all true i woulda sell myself out to an unfair, selfish, god like that.

 

Such a loving "God", huh?

 

Okay the latter posts about its up to "God"- which BTW I DO believe in a God...and I go dig Hey Jeuz ....

I really think when we die things work out as they will and should and its not on me to judge.

Sure I may lay in the ground. But if things are diff. I think my soul and intentions will be known.

Peace

 

Not really since it points out the folly in gods teachings. Maybe metaphor isn't the right word, it is what you call a "hypothetical question"

Besides you don't even try to understand my side, no matter how logical it sounds. Your voice will not be heard since you can't even rationalize with my own. You are an individual who is concrete about his beliefs and is too irrational to even listen to any hypotheticals thrown your way due to your close mindedness. : )

 

First off it makes no sense to ask christians what would God do if this or this happened because nobody knows who God will ultimately forgive or damn due to their heart , we cant know we are finite God is infinite what dont you understand about this? What is there to rationalize? I would listen if your hypothetical questions were logical but they are not so before you call me close minded make some sense first and thanks you say I am " concrete" about my beliefs, thats a compliment I really dont deserve but I'll take it anyway.

 

The New Testament is pretty well clear that for those who have heard the Gospel and accepted it, they go onto salvation and paradise.
For those who heard the Gospel and rejected it - then obviously their free will is honoured and they are separated from God.
Ahhh
For those who have NOT heard the Gospel then its clear that God judges them based on how they responded to the light they were given.
Decent Article on that: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hnohear.html
So the original question is a bit interesting in that it tries to set out some extremes and compare off of each other.
The amazing answer to the murderer who later repents is that he does indeed become saved (assuming its a REAL conversion, repentance).
Why?
because its not a 'works' based experience with Christianity.
You only get in that door because of what Christ did, does and will do.
Thats its.
He is 'The Way'.
I mean you have to think about that - Jesus doesnt just 'show the way' or 'lead the way' but He claims he IS THE Way.

The do-gooder example is a bit dodgy but if we are assuming the do-gooder has not understood and heard the Gospel but is responding to the light he was given, then we dont worry because God is a perfect judge.
Ok,
But if our example has a do-gooder who has heard the Gospel or understands he is rejecting it...
again, his free will is honoured in the afterlife.
He does not want anything to do with Christ or God so thats respected and he is separated.

While I have never met or ever heard of a perfect do-gooder I would say there is something to think about when making that example.
Always helps others, always donates his money, always rescues or tries to heal people etc etc.
Let me ask you something:
Isnt that what we SHOULD do anyways?

This reminds me of a Damon Wayans standup bit where he is indignant at men who boast about how they 'Take care of their kids!"
Wayans responds "Thats what your SUPPOSED TO DO... you dont get credit for doing shit your supposed to do in the first place!"

The older I get the more I catch onto my 'self pride' and I recall a girl I helped struggle through some tough issues.
She phoned me to lavish praise on me and thank me so much for getting her through all these things.
Its tempting to think how youre pretty good person and all that but the fact of the matter is I would have been watching TV anyways.
I SHOULD be there to do the simplest act of listening and sharing some advice with a broken person.
Thats the least of things I SHOULD be doing in the first place as nothing more than a minimum requirement.
See what im saying?

 

S-1 is quite the kook. When someone says he makes concrete conclusions on things he takes it as a compliment when the person making that assessment is ultimately saying he is close minded.

This has proven to be a good question because the answers have not degraded it except from mr bigot S-1. It gets good responses and then a few loons want to attack the question saying it's not logical when it is something that brings a lot of logic. Fools are so blind that they don't even take it as a "hypothetical question" but take the author of the question as to being literal.. I mean how blind can you be? You might want to go back n delete that post since it shows how foolish you really are.

Let's review what answers this question created shall we.. (goes to look at some notes from earlier on in this thread and others that this question is presented in)

Only one person has been negative to the question at mind, asking me such a silly question "What human being do you know that has never sinned?" when this was obviously a hypothetical question. And that is u S-1... out of like 20 other posters.

I even went to an atheist board and a christian board. You are the only one who has insulted the question.. well to be honest 2 other people on the christian board said that the question is irrelevant but they were at least smart enough to pick up that this was a hypothetical question.

 

The Christianity thing doesn't really confuse me, I just feel like they make it sound way easier than it is. They tell me at church "It's a free gift (salvation ((eternal life)) ) just accept it!" It is NOT a free gift. You pay your life for it. I get it, but something's holding me back. I wish I could be close to God really. If anyone has any questions I'd still be glad to answer them.

 

What kinda person uses the word kook? You need to grow up and stop being so immature. Your question did not make sense and no one responded to it except me and most recently El Proximo, do you know how to read I mean no one cares about your ridiculous question because IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE thats why you have to talk about the other unknown "20" posters you posted it to, who cares about those places you claim this is the hip forum so try to stick with it. You must be crazy to post a question that doesnt make sense in various boards I mean really the question was the kind I was asking in 1st grade elementry. Lets try to get this in your head once more, when you ask a question make sure its an intelligent one. By the way a bigot is a person that is intolerant of other peoples opinions I think you need to re-read the definition thats if you read it in the first place, which I doubt. So if Im a bigot which of your opinions did I not tolerate? Open your eyes and get real kid.

 

Still there or are you on the atheist board posting the same ignorant questions?

 

Man, that post is straight to the point. That is the truth. We should be doing those things. I don't think I've ever heard it put that way so succinctly.

We deceive ourselves into thinking that we are good people because we do these things and that we are owed something for doing them when actually we are obligated to do these things, these are what we should do. Think of all of the times we have missed doing these things and have done evil instead.

Jesus Christ is the only way, He is the Way, because only He has paid for our sins. We can choose to accept Him or reject Him, but He is the only way for our evil deeds to be forgiven by God.

 

I think the original question asked in this thread is a good, genuine question and I think the Bible gives a clear answer to it.

 

You're one of the more thoughtful posters here, and you haven't given this one a shot yet:

 

It's not about how many good or bad things you've done. It's about whether or not you believe in God and you trust him. If you accept Christ as your savior and give your life to him then you'll become a different person. When you do things that are wrong you'll know it, you'll become concious of it, and if you repent of it and ask for forgiveness, then that's the whole salvation deal. No one is innocent, even those people that may get killed. They've done bad things too, and unless they ask for forgiveness of those sins then when they die they will go to hell. But if the people that shot them TRULY are sorry, admit it was wrong, and ask for forgiveness and Christ to be their savior, that's what's important to God.

 

Say that to all the Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims. And the other group, atheists and agnostics.

Yep, he died for your sins, so did millions of people, many many good people in the name of god. Don't you love it? You know only 33% of the population is christian. Does that mean everyone else is wrong and is going to hell? Who are you to say they are wrong? Well you could preach all you want, I don't think non christians are going to become christians because of the threats of going to hell. We are good people. We don't have to know what god did or didn't do to be good people.

 

No one is good enough, all of our sins are equal. One thing isn't worse than the other, stealing a pencil, hitting you children, killing your neighbor....everyone sins and God is willing to forgive them even though they do. The reason it's such a big deal that Christ died for us is because he NEVER sinned. He did nothing wrong, and to be willing to die even though you are innocent is considered a big deal. It's not about how "good" you are, it's about how guilty you are of what you're doing wrong and wanting to clear your name and get right with God.

 

wow....just...wow

 

In return, thanks for answering with some original thinking.

I feel the same way as you do about being heard...I'm not here as a Christian-basher; I just want to field intelligent questions that demand reasoned responses that go beyond stock evangelical rhetoric or copy-and-paste tract material. So far...almost no takers.