Which commune is which?

What happens when everyone who shows up is looking for others to do for them?

 

well obviously that doesn't work and that is one of the complications i was talking about. a community of people that aren't willing to help won't work. but under the right conditions any human can change. the question is balancing that with the capacity of your community so that you can grow healthily while also not jeopardizing what has already been built and the stability of your community. and i mean, i'm sure there are alot of people that are alot of trouble out there, sure.

 

I think it is more a matter of functional fit. Do we expect a child or an unfortunately incapacitated member out because they do not contribute.

 

Who gives a fuck if anyone CAN change.

You keep going on about "everyone this and everyone that"...

Child molesters have no place around here... I don't give a fuck who thinks they 'can' change. Rapists and abusers (of animals children women doesn't matter) are not welcome here.

Also... lazy people who can't recognize that they need to need to work in order to survive, are not welcome here...

WHY, because all of those are the ingredients to drive those away, who do realize they need to work and have been doing so.

I do want to thank you for something though Desos... you have helped me understand something I could never quite grasp... In Atlas Shrugged, there were scenerios about slackers and their enablers taking down what was left of society when those who actually did work disappeared.

I read this book many times and just could never quite agree that people would do that to themselves.

You have convinced me that it is a very accurate scenario.

 

I was simply saying that I wouldn't. I will put my help to use in the ways that I feel most beneficial. I don't think helping out people who are to lazy to do things themselves beneficial. If people are willing to help out but struggle in some way, then ok that's fine. But otherwise I will live and work where and how I want, with people who feel the same as I do.

And to be fair, I haven't met anyone living in a commune who doesn't want to pull their weight. It's expected that people do - it is communal living after all.

See, no. I don't think people will see the error of their ways by me going in there and doing things for them. They will more likely see the error of their ways when they are left with nothing and they realise people won't run around after them.

Sounds like you are just trying to justify it for yourself.

 

There is a huge disconnect between the people who think communal living would be a great way to live, and those who actually do it.

The single most common comment I have ever heard from people in regards to them coming to join in has been.

"Oh I wanted somewhere that everything was already set up"

Then they feel hurt and wonder why I get bitchy and tell them to fuck off.

The whole point to starting this type of thing up was to build it WITH people who shared the same ideas. Not to build it for a bunch of slackers while they sat back and enjoyed life until it was finished and done with.

If that was my intent, I would have kept our tri-plex and and I would build cabins here and rent them out for cash, because that is the exact same thing as what these types of people want. Assuming the rent is really low anyways, because if they had to actually go out and work to make that money, that wouldn't make them happy either.

More people should pay attention to the 'fairy tales' they grow up hearing, specifically "The Little Red Hen"

For those who may have not grown up hearing it, I'll copy a summary of it from wikipedia...

 

yea exactly good point. how do either of you expect to raise your children? how are you going to nurture eachother when you become senile in old age? too bad so sad? because if your commune can't bridge the generation gap, then you can count me out.

the fact is that under the right conditions people can change. i've seen it happen with my own eyes. i've talked to people that said it took them years to become fully functioning members after which time they were an absolute asset.

i think you guys are getting overdefensive when i'm talking about things like people being lazy. i'm just trying to make the point that if you have an exclusive commune based on 'survival of the fittest' it most definitely isn't going to work in the long run. because that is what the rest of humanity is based on, and well from what i've seen every place i go that doesn't work.

 

First off, you are the one who is on the defensive here.

Second off, we never said anything about survival of the fittest. Those are your words and meaning.

Thirdly, you have just proven beyong a doubt that either you don't think at all, or you are a very exclusive type person no matter what you try to claim.

People of all ages and infirmities can and should contribute to a community. Just because some can't split firewood in no ways means they can't do something else.

It is too bad that you feel the only contributing member of a community is one that can do physical labour.

 

Wow, in two days you go from;

To this;

Just how many places have you went to that haven't worked?

 

Try reading all posts before you start...

I for one haven't said it is survival of the fittest, again if you had read what was said, everyone would usually want to pull their weight when living in a group. If it's not building, then something else - but not exacting to do nothing at all.

By saying we don't want to join a communal living setting with people who are lazy, does not mean we will throw out our children or disabled/ old age family members.

Your argument is pointless so far.

 

i don't feel that the only way to contribute is physical labor. but 'if man does not work, let him not eat' sounds pretty elitist to me. because human life is infintely more complicated than that.

 

i was just talking about the state of society, not communes. because there are many lessons to be learned from society. i've been to 1 place, that does work.

 

I am stunned...

I am absolutely blown away that you just said this... lol

You think that me saying 'if you don't contribute, then you don't partake is elitest' just blew ANY chance of ever convincing anyone you are anything but a leech who wants to live off others efforts.

Thanks for demonstrating my point better then I ever could have.

 

Then again any preference is elitist toward that which is not preferred. Being elite may also bring refinement.

 

Let me guess, the women should be cooking and cleaning for the men right?

I wouldn't like the idea of not helping out but still getting everything. I think it is fair, you want to eat, then get up and help out in some way.

 

There is a saying that the poor we have with us always. Many communities have set aside a portion, a manufactured surplus to assist those less fortunate.
Perhaps a member of your community becomes mentally ill or is born blind, this social safety net is a wisdom that recognizes this ever present phenomena of human relations. Without it we are forced into the barbarity of genocidal neglect.

 

well i'm glad that you can make a complete assesment of who i am from just a few sentences in a thread in an online forum. that's pretty damn impressive.

i don't know how you expect to have a civil conversation when all you are saying is accusations. i was trying to be patient, but personally i've had enough. thanks for the insight that you provided here. i pray that if ever our paths should cross, you might be a little more hospitable in person, or my patience may be greater.

but to what ends are you *being refined? humility plays an important role in that all humans are divinely indifferent.

 

yes, absolutely. people should help out, and pull their own weight. but sometimes there is alot more going on. i guess i sort of agree with what you said earlier. that if someone wants to try and help out but falls short then that is ok... for a time. but they are going to need help to where they don't fall short anymore. and not the kind of help that sees them as inadequate human beings.

 

Helpful is a matter of timing, it is necessary for us to make distinctions. It is not a good idea to eat poisonous plants for instance.

 

You've now gone from what I thought was a 'normal' person wanted to live in a commune to an inadequate, mentally ill, elderly blind child.

The things that have been said are not referring to the latter, so you can't bring that in now and use what was said previously.