What Will You Do When The System Collapses?

Well it's good then to know that there are 30,549 people to learn from in the U.S. alone for when tshtf based on current population estimates from the U.S. Census bureau.

 

That might be about right when you consider ranchers, farmers and herders who basically live like 100 years ago except they use gas and buy supplies from Wal-Mart.

 

Hey, I was just using your estimate of 1 in 10,000 based on current u.s. population, if ya' think it's less than 1 in 10k so be it.

I thought it was a bit liberal of an estimate myself, Mabey closer to 1 in 50k.

And it's not like anyone is born knowing how to, they work toward gaining the knowledge of survival by more traditional methods.

And if you truly believe in the ability of Society as a whole to rectify the various self fabricated crisises we are constantly presented with on the TV, then by all means, no one is twisting your arm to break away from the norm. And if there are so few who choose to follow what their heart tells them as opposed to buying the spoon fed opiates of the masses that bailouts and elections are going to save the sinking ship it should not matter to you as "The collective masses can solve the problems they've created" as you insist, so why worry if everyones going to be fine?

Not trying to be harsh on your opinions man, but it's sort of like going and telling the Amish what a bunch of Schmucks they are for not having Electricity, dontcha think?

 

Right now the U.S. dollar is appreciating against all currencies except the yen.
The Canadian dollar is only worth USD$.78, in spite of the fact the our banking system is comparitively stable. The reason is that currency speculators (the big ones) think that the U.S. dollar is going to have more long term stability than other currencies.

 

This really makes no sense..

Earth to Fritz

 

Too funny. If it makes no sense to you, then nothing else I or anyone else can say to you will help you understand it any better.

Good luck inside the walls of Babylon.

 

Not everyone has $100,000+ to go buy a off grid self sustaining property..
So I was just trying to bring up some realistic things us common folks could do.

Maybe you have some tactics and techniques for us common folks to be free from “Babylon”????

How did you become free from “Babylon”????? and still retain internet access??

Please enlighten us.

 

they have nowhere else to put there money. soon the deleveraging of the dollar will take place,its value will plummet and inflation will set in.

the dollars rise is temporary at best,,..

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/10/us-dollar-yen-treasuries-soar-in-risk.html

 

Nobody does go out and drop $100,000 to buy a self sustaining property, but thats part of societies issues right there, you cant just run around and throw money at every problem you find yourself in, some times they actually require effort, determination and intensive study to overcome. This isn't some High School Chemistry or History exam that you can go and buy the answers for.

For starters, learn a whole bunch of skills that most of your friends will laugh their asses off at you for wasting your time learning because you can always just cruise to wallmart to buy your food, clothes and tools as opposed to making them yourselves.

I've got 19 years under my belt of practicing, studying and using technologies from the past 200 years of our history. Blacksmithing, Woodworking, Ceramics, etc. more study than anything of course, because as you point out, there is always wall mart, but enough hands on with it to know I can make what I need when I need to.

I've got 17 years practical on the job experience with Electromechanical design, repair and retrofitting in a number of Industries.

For the past few years I've been casually studying Herbalism and homeopathy.

This Summer, I broke ground on the garden, I've got a few crops in now just to check the soil and see how well things should grow, and so far Tobacco is growing really well just using the sandy soil with forest mulch mixed in as compost. Tobacco is a good indicator because it requires alot of nutrients and usualy fertilization but the leaves and mulch are acting as almost a sort of time released fertilizer for me.
By this time next year I'll have a greenhouse set up for overwinter crops using recycled materials.

As far as firearms & ammo are concerned, theres always crossbows, really simple pieces of ancient technology that can be made with wood and bone or animal horn as they were traditionally done or simply some scrap car parts to increase it's durability. Virtually impossible to run out of ammo for as long as there are sapling trees growing around you.

Theres alot of Wildlife in the area so I've no plans on keeping livestock, perhaps a Goat or two as I really like Feta cheese (hard to find in these parts)

Well theres being free and seperate from it, but then theres living on it's edges and being ready to burn that bridge when the time comes, let's just say that as my garden grows (And wow I've got good soil here!) it's alot like me stacking firewood under that bridge. (Hey, Wall mart does have some neat stuff after all! )

And regarding your post about how Farmers might be close to ready for such a situation and whatnot, It may be true that those farmers do go to town and buy gas for their tractors, Wall mart for other supplies etc.

But keep this in mind, most Family Farmers have been on their land for many generations and most everyone in a Farming community knows each other well unlike in your major cities, when hard times hit, these communities will pull together and look out for one another, but you tell me if you could seriously see that happening in the Cheesman Park area or in Denver's 5 points neighborhod.

And the only reason Farmers use heavy equipment is because they are doing it as a Buisness, on a large scale. If the economy collapses, they will be more than able to hitch that plow up to a team of Horses or Cattle as opposed to a Tractor and work a small enough section of their land to feed themselves and have enough left over to barter with their neighbors.

So as to if I have an answer for you in this potential time of crisis? If you truly have concern that the crap is heading toward the fan now but have not been learning the required skills for such a "what-if" scenario, then seriously consider a communal living situation where you will be able to work together with others and develop the skills you need to survive.

Now while I may be prepaired for the worst, I never did it for the sake of it being a preperation for the worst. I've learned these skills because I #1 Enjoy studying Science and technology, #2 Take great pleasure in working with my hands, and #3: The relevant technical skills I've learned went hand in hand with the line of work I prefer to do for a living. And I chose such not for the sake of "the piles of money I planned to make in my future career" but because I love the work itself.

Again, as the saying goes, "Do what you love and you will never work a day in your life". Of course this is not to confuse the notion that you will never become frustrated with a particular job or certain tasks made more difficult due to the ineptitude of others.

Hope that makes more sense to ya'. :cheers2:

 

You can have all the knowledge in the world but land cost money… wells cost money, tools, sheds, mason jars all cost money. It takes money to homestead in a colonial society knowledge is only a part of it.

Not trying to be negative but I have not seen that many set ups that could even be 70% self sufficient and ones that are have a lot invested in them years and generations of work.

So I just think it is un realistic for people to take some seminars read some books and go out and be self-sufficient next year. Maybe in 10 years.. but what are people going to live off of until them?

This is true a lot of small communities are tight and could be self sufficient if they pulled together. BUT most agriculture towns are dependant on one crop they export out of the area.. in recessions and depressions dark forces usually manipulate prices so the one crop is worthless to grow and farmers don’t have a system or equipment to diversify which wreaks havoc on small communities. If you look at history a lot of small agriculture towns have turned to ghost towns during depressions and the residents were forced to migrate to cites or starve.
That is why so many people hate the one-crop export systems it is used to control and manipulate growers all over the world.

These areas are already a complete disaster IMO

All I am trying to point out is just going out and building a self-supporting living system from scratch is very very hard to do and it takes years and alot of money.
So if people don’t have money for land and years to work out the bugs they might want to explore other methods of self-preservation.

You know Americans and Europeans are spoiled we have had stable governments for a long time. Most of the world doesn’t they go through economic depressions all the time they learn to live with it adapt to it. It is just a part of life our country has just been spoiled and hasn’t had to deal with it for a while.

 

Land yes, no doubt, but there are areas where it can be had for less than $1000 per acre.

Wells? Not nessisarily money, but the equipment to dig or drill them (Depending on if you have a spring fed source or need to get down to the Aquafer), but again, not totaly nessisary (thou preferable) as Man has used Cisterns to catch rain for centuries for their water needs, thou of course one needs to have means of sterilizing that water prior to consumption, but works fine as-is for irrigation of crops, build it now and stock up off the city feed.

Tool's, the ones you really need dont cost a dime if you have the knowledge and the skill to make your own. Just look at any ancient culture, every one past the neolithic era had tools to make life easier, hoe's plows, shovels etc. all made using natural resources. If you're really curious you can find many examples and instructions on the how-to at this site, it's at least an introductory point for you,,,

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/directory

Want a Shed?
http://www.butserancientfarm.co.uk/ has guides and plans for a number of Iron age constructions that can be built by someone wiling to take the time to gather local resources and put them together

Mason jars? Well for starters, they're dirt cheap, find cases of a dozen of them at Dollar stores for $8 cheap. But as with well's, not nessisary as there are alternatives to food storage such as clay vessles like the Native Americans used.
http://www.nativetech.org/ if you need more info on finding, processing and firing clay without a Modern Kiln.

So other than the initial few thousands of dollars spent to obtain the initial property, the only cost is education, dedication and time invested.

Please note I've never suggested it's an easy task, never have I suggested that I think everyone has the ability as it stands now to survive the Collapse of the system.
But keep in mind that if the System collapsing is taken to mean that Government is ineffective or gone altogether, our nation has a great abundance of National Forests where if you have the proper knowledge, you will at least be able to survive and hopefully with the help of likeminded people develop a small community over time.

I absolutely agree on that point and would guess that the Strong will feed off the weak much like has happened in many an extreme survival scenario.

I dont know what Agricultural town's you're familiar with,perhaps you're used to seeing things like the standard Mono-cropping practices of places like Iowa and Illinois, but please dont forget that even these Farms for the most part have a smaller plot in which to grow thier own gardens as supplemental food and they can be expanded as required to meet their needs. Another point being, we're not talking about Depression, we're talking collapse. Those manipulative forces you speak of will be busying themselves in the major cities as they try to retain their sense of power and superiority over the masses. As far as some Farming communities becoming Ghost Towns, this has been happening all along, even at the best of times as many have become lulled into the idea that it's a safe and acceptable thing to fund one's Farming activities on the basis of using the credit system, so when things do get tight for them, they find they are unable to make their payments and their farms become bank property.

And I think the only point we disagree on is the Money, but of course that's due to a personal perspective, and also the reason why if you are truly concerned that we've only got a year or three before the crap hit's the spinning blades then it might be a wise choice for you to find a Communal living scenario, go an be willing to work hard and learn from those around you. But as we've seen in other threads, be sure you do your research on the community you choose. (Personally I'd say think warmer climate down south as you'll have a longer growing season)

And I think thats really the heart of the problem as you so well outlined, we have on the large, become a very socially dependant and generally slothfull nation, content as I stated earlier to feed upon the various Opiates of the masses and numb ourselves to the idea that there could be another way to live.

But it's only hopeless if you stand around thinking of all the reasons you cant do it as opposed to focusing your energy and efforts on the question of how-to. But for those who sit around and wait till the last minute, there is no answer left to them but in relying on the same social institutions which have doped the herd and led it to the problem in the first place.

Sorry if I dont have a better answer to address the problems to be faced by society as a whole, of course the thread was entitled "What will you do" not "we".

 

On a side note, if you start growing your own, be sure you use heirloom seeds like from this place as opposed to the Wall Mart brands which have been modified in many cases so as to prevent saving seeds from one years crop to plant the next. Very, very important to avoid GMO crops and Monsanto for this very reason, they are trying to lock up our future food suply so as to force us to keep spending, keep feeding the corrupt system. Dont buy into their scam again.
http://rareseeds.com/?gclid=CKvd9JOY65QCFRKhxgodZXqA_A

And as far as some really basic gardening using really basic tools, heres a rough outline of the gardening methods used by some Native American tribes back in the day, they also supplemented their diets with wild edibles and Hunting as well as barter and trade, but it provided them with the basic staples of their diets.
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/buffalo/garden/garden.html

And just a tip, you will learn something far quicker by jumping in and getting your hands dirty with it, head up by Fort Collins and explore nature, bring some printed info to help you spot basic resources and get to know them. Learn to make a fire bow, some simple tools, spot wild ediblse, note I said spot not eat, be sure it is what you think it is, bring a sample to an Ag Center to verify till you can feel comfortable that your'e picking a Wild Carrot and not Hemlock.

And as far as tools go, theres no reason why with a little thrifty shopping at yard sales & flea markets you shouldnt be able to purchace the bare essentials of what you'll find helpful for much more than $200.

 

Been there done that for years..

I have lived and stayed on about 15 different communities from close to the equator to northern Montana. I’ve spent more then 10 years off of the grid in a lot of different environments.

I work hard and contribute to places I stay so I could go back to most all the places I have stayed. I have access to off grid homesteads here in Colorado but in this point of my life I’m not interested in living in the woods. Might go back at some point but not right now.

I’m interested in society and community making a place for our children to grow. Not just a little corner of the woods but the whole fucking U.S.
Pipe dream? Maybe but we all have one.

“Babylon” is not THEM it is all of US… we are all connected.

A full on collapse…

Take a look at Rwanda, parts of Latin America and other semi un-governed law-less lands ask them how their small gardens are doing..

 

when the system collapses, i'll have a huge eviction party and then camp in the woods in a tent.

 

Well, good luck with that Man, seriously. :cheers2:

 

And I guess I really only say that in a doubtful tone for the sake that there have been various organizatons and groups which have been fighting for people to wake up and come together in that sense of community of either Brotherly love or simple nessesity for the health of a Society to one degree or another for over 100 years, and still we're at this point. Still, by no means cause to stop trying altogether, as an example I certainly intend on giving any excess from my garden to the local food bank just to help those on the shortest end of the stick.