What to do in the mad, mad world?

The problem with what to do about it ? It is a three fold problem and this is why we can't stand together and demand real reform .

#1 ) We have become a nation that takes no responsibility for our own personal actions . We speak of wanting freedom and rights in one breath . Yet in another want the government to take care of us through entitlement programs because of bad life choices and lack of personal responsibility ,and immoral behavior . Freedom and big government nanny state can't and wont exist together . You are either free and independent , or you are not free and dependent on someone else to meet your needs for you and take care of you . We have become dependent on this government/ state to feed us clothe us , wipe our asses and clean up our bad life choices . Freedom and handouts are polar opposites , they can't exist together .

With freedom comes great responsibility for everyone to pull their own weight and be self sufficient thus the state has a limited role in the life of the citizen . When that society breaks down , because too many choose the path of least resistance , laziness or refuse to work . Someone has to pick up that slack . Freedom and rights are the first to go .I also believe it's a direct result of declining morals in this country . Single mothers , teenagers having children they can't support . Absentee dead beat fathers who refuse to take care of their responsibilities , divorce rates at fifty percent . Drug and alcohol abuse . Incarceration rates through the roof , All an example of poor life choices . And many of whom will become dependent on the state to take care of them , And meet their daily needs. If we want a nanny state we won't have freedom . Freedom requires hard work . Few are willing to labor for it today . We are a corrupt society that teaches its youth selfishness , greed , sex , love of power and material possessions . It is and was a recipe for disaster and destruction . When the love of self became more important than the love of others and the groups well being , we were doomed . We are an out of control society with no values,norms , morals or self constraint . At some point this population must be made to heed and brought under some control . If the people won't take any personal responsibility for their actions , then I can assure you the government will . Or we will be living in anarchy soon . Which won't work either . Ironically the very foundation of what our country is formed on, personal freedom . Is now in large part destroying it from within . Without morals and restraint personal freedoms are anarchy .

#2) We are too divided among ourselves in the middle and lower classes . Fighting each other to the death over our special interests minority platforms that keep us divided instead of united . Things like political party affiliation (rep. vrs. dem) , race , religion , sex ,union or non union and social class . All these things divide us at the bottom of the ladder , so we never look up to see our real enemy at the top . The rich elite and big business . Who through money took control of our government and elected officials were all to happy to sell out for their own greed . Allowing the rich elite to then declare class warfare and systematically all but wiped out the middle class . However they over reached and failed to see that America will not stand without the middle class . On whose shoulders rested the burden of paying the taxes for the rich and the poor . Essentially cutting their own throat as well . They have been laughing all the way to the bank at our expense since the late sixties .

One has to wonder if the great melting pot is a dismal failure ? We were always taught that America's greatest strength was her diversity . Yet we are letting that very diversity destroy her . Because we should be American's first and special interest groups and parties second . After all those special interest groups and platforms would not exist if America and her liberty didn't exist . And they won't when she falls , which she will . Because of ego's , stupidity and selfishness divided us and froze us from doing what was right for America . Divide and conquer , the oldest military strategist play in the book . And to date it has worked all to well .

#3 ) The mass media is owned bought and paid for by big business . It's sole purpose is to hide the truth of what's really going on from normal American's. To many of us still believe it's the real news we are tuning into in the mainstream media , when in fact nothing could be further from the truth .It's a puppet show .

It also exists to promote immorality and sexual promiscuity . With a host of immoral degenerate stars , who are worshiped and idolized because they are rich and famous . Who keep us entertained with movies and music . It distracts us in our few hours of free time at night away from our day jobs as tax payers to feed the war machine . To not ponder what's really going on is this nation is being plundered from within by global banking cartels and criminals . Like blind fools and sheep they buy into mass medias bullshit , hook line and sinker .

And if that wasn't bad enough the mass media feeds mass consumerism and material possession greed and lust through the commercials they run every 10 minutes between the oh so unwholesome and unproductive mind numbing programming they air . Every commercial packed with consumer products , sex and promotes and glorifies mass consumerism . That is not only unsustainable but is destroying the planet and exhausting it's natural resources .

It also isolates us socially . A family who all live in the same house are isolated to different rooms alone , watching different boxes alone . We don't give enough attention to how much time we really devote to it , or the enormous power it wields over us . How much it influences our opinion of the world and ourselves . We are blind to the fact that it / they the mass media tell us how to think , feel and act to certain stimuli . What to buy , wear , drive ,drink and eat . It's power over us is enormous . And in the hands of a small few owned by big business it's destructive to say the least .

All this has been planned out to the letter . All this is happening for a reason . We are being led back into bondage and chains link by link into feudalism and serfdom . By global criminals and are to self absorbed to see the truth for what it is . To lazy , apathetic and divided to stand and fight it . If we could just see where this is headed , the end game . We sure as hell bet we would be fighting it then . We are in a race to the bottom morally ,culturally , economically , educationally and spiritually . And so was Rome before it fell , in her last days . The parallels of what's happening here today , are the exact same that happened in Germany before ww2 . It's scary and true . This is now a fascist state run by criminals ! We should be doing something to change it .

But we won't . It's easier and safer to pretend it doesn't exist . Denial is simple reality is hard to face . It's easier to put your head in the sand isolated . But there will come a time that that won't work either . The people who are self sufficient hunters , farmers isolated from major cities will be the ones likely to survive .

 

When thinking about our social engineering projects it help to make certain general observations about what may or may not be possible or desirable.

One observation that may affect how we think about this is, individuals within the same species, as a rule, meet with varying levels of success. For instance there is competition for mating rites or, not every individual makes it to sexual maturity. Animal societies are stratified so when thinking about success we need of necessity to think of the potential of the individual rather than the group. Thinking of the potential of groups is relevant only in relation to other groups.

So you are not going to come up with a system that accommodates every individual to the same degree. The greatest potential for success of the group follows from the excellence of individual members. The greatest contribution an individual can make to the whole is to function well himself, or first do no harm. Regardless individual freedom is the best guarantee for a healthy society, however the freedom must be genuine.

What does that mean, freedom must be genuine? Our most valuable individual commodity is time. To be free at this most valuable interface, is to not track the clock. That is, the purpose of time is to learn to use it wisely rather than be used by it.

It is not a requirement of nature that our carefree moments seem so few and forever distant, it means only that we had not learned to be free with our care. Rather we had learned to care more or less. Holidays become more festive than mondays, and on mondays we sometimes can't wait for fridays so then we can get back, to our real lives?

Rather why not learn to give every moment the consideration of a peak experience.

 

ideally, land should not be a commodity that can be bought and sold.

Ideals usually are thrown to the wayside



the whole concept of land ownership makes no sense in my head. However, since it exists, I do wish to own land one day. At least I know what I choose to do with my land will serve the best purpose of the land, as opposed to the land being sold for commercial purposes.

 

So, owning land is crazy but you want to do it anyway?
I happen to own some land that I haven't as yet liquidated. I have a well and septic system but it is a mile and a half from any utility. The property, a little over five acres, is covered in evergreen huckleberry, and salal. Both are delicious edible berries and are wildly prolific. Evergreen huckleberries are available from july to november. The first two years the berry crop was phenomenal, but then there was a spell of unseasonably cool spring weather and the bumble bees didn't fly at the appropriate time and the huckleberry crop failed, forest wide, for two years running. So a market I had begun to develop crashed because I couldn't find product.

Since I owned the land I couldn't just move to a part of the forest that was more productive that year. The same thing was true for wild culinary mushrooms, of which several varieties grow on the property and in the surrounding BLM forest. A too late fall rain, and the mushroom season worth several thousand dollars is lost.

There really are no ideal sedentary locations for human development. One of the things that makes humans successful is the ability to migrate. Every area is subject to local disruption of "normal" patterns. If the civil system disintegrates then owning land is no guarantee of safety.

 

And being homeless and a migrating tribe is safer? I'm trying to become as self sufficient as possible. I know land taxes will always be a burden. Without solar panels, wind generator, batteries I will be dependent on the grid. Woodstove will keep me from freezing. Chickens and rootcrops will me keep from starving. If the civil system crashes I think I will survive.

I do see benefits of a migrating tribe. For elderly and children it will be difficult.

If civl society crashes I see renters and those with mortgages surviving by squatting.

The nuclear family is a socially engineered model that makes us very dependent on the local government. In turn we feed that govt by being nuclear. Little pink houses in little suburbs all paying separate taxes, buying separate resources. Communities, villages, tribes, co-operatives, unions, communes, extended family farms have all been systemically shut down as they compete with the socially acceptable and engineered nuclear family.

 

I read ya', Indydude, but if there is no perfect justification for this world going on forever, then so be with it and make it's peace. We can ignore believing in ourselves but we then have to comprehend the wars too.

Hey' no government is going to tell me otherwise. Is that upbeat for what I care to VOTE for?: bullshit.

 

Ideally, I don't think land should be a commodity. Sometimes one has to adjust their principles to fit with the fact that ideals don't hold up to reality.

Ideally, I would like to see all land as public property to be shared between people in the best interest of the land and the people.

Thats never going to happen.

This is true. One's best bet in this situation is to own a plot of land in a very remote, isolated area. Owning land in a populated area is certainly no guarantee for anything if shit hits the fan.

 

I think what we need is for people to come together and talk amongst each other face to face in addition to online. We need to fight fear and fight the idea of having to conform. Be loud and express what you feel. Bare your soul and express your individuality. And do all of this in a non-violent way.

I think our problem is people are waiting for the government to fix things, for the economy to get how it was before, their spirits are tired. We need to become the change we want. It's harder than expecting others to do it for us and it takes more effort but it's what we gotta do.

People should start more protests and start changing to independent instead of being loyal to a party. More independents should run for presidency and politicians should start thinking more about what's best for society as a whole and not just what will help us be a more powerful nation.

I think people are comfortable and afraid. We have to stop being afraid. I live in a city where people try to scare you into shutting up. If you stand out or are different people bully you to stunt your expression and your spirit. Hell no! We gotta be free and realize change comes from within each of us not some stupid president or stupid corporations.

I think we should start boycotting corporations and their shit products and start opening up our own small businesses and saying screw you we're gonna do our own thing not keep giving you profits while you don't create jobs for us. This will also stop corporations from building China up. All we're doing by buying corporate crap is building up other nations cuz they don't manufacture here or even give jobs to Americans they give it all to cheap labor in those other nations.

Anyways this is just my opinion...

 

You will notice that those who are advocating owning nothing and wandering the world with no encumberances are telling you this online.

It is not intelligent, or wise, or an example of deep thoughts (unless you count ones deep in bullshit) to claim that we should all be wandering with no homes and nothing permanent established when the very people who are arguing this are using the benefits of the very permanence they claim to be against.

Without established communities and people working together on long term homes and goals, we are cavemen... no homes except caves, no food except what is found or killed, no clothes and so on...

All those things are examples of what happened when humans put down roots and started to build a future together...

Claiming that it all means nothing, especially while benefiting from it, is not only hypocritical, it is assinine.

Owning land, is the only way in this society to establish a permanent base from which to build our lives from. Does it mean anything in the philisophical world in terms of someone being able to 'own' land? Of course, not... of course, we don't live in the philisophical world, do we?

What it does mean, is that when the shtf, those who own land now, and are building towards supporting themselves and those on the land, will have something when those who wander have nothing...

And when those who wander, stumble in... they will be offered a choice... work with everyone else or leave...

The first one who shows up and says, the earth is all of ours, and you should give me my share of what you have harvested... will be the first head on the pole outside the gates (remember this one from before?)

 

I was thinking the other day of organizing a giant protest for young people in D.C. I wonder how that would work...

I think so many people know what's wrong and talk about it amongst each other but noone protests anymore and shakes things up. It's funny how Middle Eastern nations are doing that while we all just hangout in our homes and complain amongst each other and online.

 

Nothing has happened yet that directly effects enough people to create a massive outcry. We all hear about these different policies being enacted that infringe on personal freedoms, and most of us have probably experienced it first hand at some point, but it hasn't gotten to the point where a large group of people are being effected by it in their every day lives.

Boys were being sent home from Vietnam in body bags by the hundreds or thousands every day. Everyone was touched by that, and it created a reaction in society as a whole.

I think that point will come for us. If food prices and gas prices continue to spike, it will happen sooner than later.

 

Very true. I guess people just wait till things get unbearable to do anything about it. Human nature lol

 

An expediency of the moment.

Permanence is an illusion. You may have all your well thought out ducks in a row and loose your health through disease or accident. You may believe yourself adequately defended and be overwhelmed easily by a greater force.
I do not advocate that everybody should do as you are saying. I suggest the only remedies that can be had are for individuals and in turn those individuals
may assist others if they can find the inclination.

No, fact is we would still be homo sapiens and of varying levels of competence and success.

What does it mean besides comfort, sissy? It is not asinine to enjoy the sunshine today even though tomorrow it may rain. Every body dictates their own terms in life within a certain temperature range. Just because people may not experience the same level of attachment for their "hard won" accumulations, does not mean they are asinine or hypocritical.

There are no permanent bases. that is one of the most wishful wistful statements I've heard in a while. Further your statement is a philosophy of life.

Yes, we live in a world of ideas

The human being has proven himself adaptable to any clime or land mass on the earth. A piece of property means absolutely nothing compared to the inherent adaptability of healthy human beings. What you will have is something that could make you a target for envy, which is eventually a recipe for trouble. If the personal property system is so proficient at supporting people, why are so many impoverished.

Trust me, you have nothing I want.

Do you know how many lives were spared by the invention of the thimble?

 

Powers greater then us want a global economly. Billion dollor food corporations want to feed the world. THose are the forces that need to be fought agaisnt. Real food not what these global corps are pushing are but processed and packaged and designed with little nutrition and addicting with fats, carbs, sugar, salt.
The global elite want the worlds workers on one pay scale. Thats why we are seeing unions being busted and all manufacturing moved to developing econmies. The middle class does not fit in to these elites formula.

The 30 year mortage has f#cked us up more then anything. That is a contract to slavery with NO protections for the borrower. That is where change needs to happen first.

 

Interesting fact: There have been a couple of incidents in which genetically modified food sent to Africa from the United States in the form of aid was turned away. Starving people won't eat the food that Americans eat every day.

I'm actually sure there is a lot more to the story than that; African nations often come with very corrupt governments and some of it might have been political posturing of sorts. Still, its interesting that Americans don't really give a second thought to their food supply while nations that we think of as less developed give more consideration to what they put into their bodies.

Another interesting fact: Some african countries must accept foreign aid in order to recieve medical aid. Through some shady international law the two things are tied together.

 

I'm usually torn between wanting to see this happen and not...

The system does really suck... it would be awesome to have a better one in place... But I don't see those in charge letting that happen.

What is more likely is that once the current system collapses, those in power will re-establish it with a much harder hand, destroying even the semblance of freedom that some have now...

Right off the top of my head, I would say the first incarnation of it after a collapse would be the religions that are already organized outside of the conventional, such as the mormons and mennonites...

 

Yeah, every dollar you spend is a vote for something.





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Okay... couple days later and the rain has seriously fed the crops here on this thread.

Welcome to all newcomers and thank you for joining the conversation.

Human nature and group dynamics are amusingly interesting. And rational debate can be even more so when mixed with the human souls capacity to be passionate. And that's about all I have to say on that.

I feel I should point out, and reinforce, the aspect of illusion present in much of the topics of our conversation. It is one of the most powerfully negative components of the society that has come be. We know that a good deal of what people say turns out to be bullshit. We attempt to discern any difference between the way things appear to be and the way they actually are. And we also sometimes envision things to be as we think or want them to be. We are a contradictory creature, humans. In part the reason that society has come to be the way it is, is because it is humans that have created it. And as a group, we are extremely diverse and greatly subject to the forces and experiences that shape our individual selves. That any one of us sees through the greater illusions doesn't actually prevent us from creating our own; how do you think the greater ones came to be in the first place? Some person. Maybe someone like you... A greater metaphysical debate of the notions of real, truth, good, evil, right, wrong, moral, immoral and whatever other competing ideas place you at odds with someone else is probably more suited to the Philosophy or Mind Fuck threads. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy those discussions and the varying viewpoints serve to broaden one's perspective. I see that as a worthy pursuit.

But there was a reason this is posted in Politics. At its core, the word means simply the process by which collective decisions get made. The topic was:

So far the answer appears to be... and can i get a drum roll Ringo?.. nothing much. A lot of ideas about an active self-interest along with cooperation with those closest to you physically of like mind. And a continuation of the cycle of simple human nature... sounds like the same song. There aren't enough people walking around with open eyes to do anything but watch and talk amongst themselves. And like any people anywhere, we just mostly disagree on some damn thing. Personally, my socio-politcal beliefs are along the lines of individual anarchism, or left-leaning libertarianism. But that's all part of how "it should be, in my perfect world." The fact is, while we may create our own realities for our days, when dealing with the greater whole there is a reality of "How it really is" that we cannot escape. That everyone isn't up in arms and bashing down the doors of those who lord over us so craftily is the most brilliantly executed con job the world has ever known. Especially here in america, where the average citizen is a blatant dichotomy of thought fed by a machine that they are inexorably tied to with little hope of escape, or even knowledge of captivity for that matter.

The monster is there. Whether we fear it or buy into it or help it along, or not, it still exists. And it lives to perpetuate itself at the expense of others, namely everyone else. If the answer is truly just... take care of you and yours; then like all the other inconvenient and distasteful truths I've discovered in my days, I suppose I'll have to accept it.

The aesthetic in me just doesn't want to.

 

when one types, 'we', the presumption, i presume is, all who read the instant question?

what i have seen tried...and fail, in MY lifetime...is

1. discussion and debate
2. voting
3. temporary boycotts
4. protesting, carrying signs, joining 'groups' (this includes 'pacs' or other such organizations)
5. trying to buy control

what i have read in history goes even beyond that...violent and peaceful revolutions have failed. sometimes the failure takes a century or two, but the 'new dynamic' formed through blood and sacrifice fails in time.

so what do we do about it? i watch the monster. it resides in us all, and waits to escape its bondage. i attempt to direct the struggles of my own monster towards what i hope and believe is overall good for myself, through which i believe will bring some benefit to others. perhaps i am wrong...this is the way life is. perhaps one's best or worst intentions are all wrong in the ultimate view. not knowing, we go forward or lie down and bawl in the dirt; some do both, even simultaneously, and are fetchingly entertaining whilst doing so.

as far as any of those in 'power' or ostensibly 'running the system', fuck 'em. they get 6 feet x 6 feet x 3 feet like everyone else, if they are lucky and aren't tossed in the bar ditch. they are darkly comical in their quest to hold power over anyone but themselves.