What the bleep do we know?

let's see....

i'mjustfishin-i see your point, in that they made a leap from proof to theory, similar to darwinism.

also, diabetes can be cured with better eating and a better attitude, which has been proven to improve the way the body functions. once insulin is taken, however, the likelihood of being cured with better eating and a batter attitude are extremely lowered.

duck- i saw that movie many times, and still agree with much of it. i never heard of that cult until today. not a very good recruiting tool if it is one.

brokenbeacon- the "placebo effect," or the state of mind that causes it, can be reproduced intentionally, if one takes the time to learn. this is known all over the world. the extent to which it has an effect on one's health has not be studied thoroughly enough to draw any conclusions on its limits, but it has been proven, experientially and scientifically, to be possible. even a novice in this art can vastly improve their health with nothing more than mind over matter.

 

woops, duck kinda answered that last one, didn't he?

 

It is one, and they even made a second version that's more deeply connected to her cult.

A few years ago Wiki had an awesome article about it, but it's since been removed (I would assume by fans of the film) They're article about academic criticism has only gotten better though.

If you notice, when the one woman (JZ Knight) is interviewed, they don't credit her, but "Ramtha" the god that she 'channels'.

From what I remember, at least four of the experts interviewed are from Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and at least one of the scientists unsuccessfully sued to be removed from the film.

 

Yes it is possible for a novice to improve their health by practicing "mind over matter", but as a predictable and a consistent effect the outcome is slight. (unless you have a controlled study to show). The placebo effect is actually a seperate specific, measurable effect and visible on functioning MRI.

The profound effects on bodily functions by trained practitioners as mentioned by duck are simply not accessible to ordinary folk like you and me. We can find these people who can do it, but we have to look hard for them - in Tibet, or David Blaine.

It is not as if the doctor can refer you to have mind over matter training by a practioner as a practical effective treatment.

And Duck, yes, optimists have a better outcome in lots of diseases, but optimism depends on personality it is very hard to train yourself to be an optimist about your cancer if you are innately a pessimist. In any case, a lot of studies may not have taken into account that if cancers are more advanced or aggressive and makes people feel more ill, it can make them feel less optimistic about it, in which case it is not their pessimism that caused to poorer outlook.

 

yyyesiam and Duck said it perfect there! It does take alot of practice to be able to use the majority of the potential of the brain, I just realised its achievable a couple years ago. and now make my body not welcome in sickness, i can change my mood or create warmth. not 100% on the last one but getting there. its happened. never ending possabilities out there when you know you can achieve anything.

 

Sure they are, to less extreme amounts. Using a book I found for a dollar at a second hand store, I have been able to help circulation problems, and my hands are no longer consistently cold (in fact, they are rarely cold). I don't practice nearly as much as the book recommends, and I certainly wouldn't describe myself as above ordinary.

Well, seeing as http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Stress-Reduction-2nd-Ed/dp/1587610914/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1287690260&sr=8-2"]this book I've mentioned is written by a professional who's done just that, I have to disagree. Certain hypnotists do the same thing, in a different way, and they come in and out of popularity - but they always have some market.

Meditation is also used at an increasing rate for disease and terminal illness.

Doctors certainly aren't going to replace effective modern techniques, but that doesn't mean that non-traditional techniques can't be recommended as well.

 

Stress reduction, meditation, CBT, it's all true this can help a lot of conditions that are worsened by stress and perceptions. I am just not convinced this is the same as "mind over matter", which implies a direct control of the thinking brain over body functions.

 

Well, I mean, isn't all movement or bodily function, 'mind over matter'? It takes a signal traveling along my nerves to move my finger to type.

Even automatic processes such as heartbeat can be affected by the mind.

I think I know what you're getting at, and that maybe the conversation carried away from your original point.
But as much as our thought can't just make something true; our thought is behind all that we are and do.

 

i would also like to add that people aren't innately positive or negative. you learn how to be either and can always change your direction, though i agree that circumstance can alter the level of difficulty.

however, in some cases, utter despair is what fuels someone to let go of the negative thought patterns that have been hurting them and choose to persistently look at their situation with positivity.

 

O yes they are. This is part of personality. Some people are genetically predisposed to react negatively to adversity and readily become depressed as a consequence. Others are genetically predisposed to be resistant to adversity and naturally automatically frame adverse circumstances as "not so bad".

Yes you can learn to reframe circumstances and events as more positive, through cognitive therapy, but that uses a different part of the brain as a workaround and the success rate is patchy. It can work well for people who are genetically in the middle, who can indeed go from despair to positivity, but not so well for people who are lifelong "glass half empty" depressives.

 

i completely disagree

 

the body and mind can do amazing things but this has nothing to do with quantim physics and can be explained by biology without bringing up anything magical or having to "create alternate realities with your brain".

 

double slit?

 

@yyyesiam2

what about the double slit experiment?

maybe you mean, more specifically, wave/particle paradox?

 

the notion that the act of observation affects how electrons behave. if you have a link to an article debunking or re-explaining it, i am interested. (no sarcasm)

 

yes i think that experiment was one of my favourite parts of the movie. very intresting. And nothing being talked about is really that "magical" imjustfishin?

 

what i mean by magical is claiming that this theory (wave/particle paradox) supports the notion that if you think about something real hard you will have desirable outcomes.

 

you might enjoy the book, Power Vs. Force

 

Wave/particle duality and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle DO NOT mean that by thinking hard/putting on a constipation-face you can influence other dimensions or whatever.
It just means that particles have states defined by probability distribution functions, and that the act of measuring the position/momentum of a particle has an innate level of uncertainty related to the nature of wave/particle you bounce off it to determine its properties.

From a layman's point of view, quantum physics does not result in anything interesting.

 

agreed. it was a real trip, made you think a bit and opened your mind, obviously should be taken with a big grain of salt.