What Is God?

Is there, and understands. He created a universe with a lot of questions for intelligent beings to ponder. I don't understand how someone can be atheist (believes God does not exsist). God does exsist at some point for the atheist to point out God doesn't exist. What's up with that?

 

I think I do understand what math is. It's not that hard to understand.

But what is hard to understand is absolute nothingness. Not theories, not numbers, nothing.

Kind of hard to explain this type of theory in a chat room. I don't want to type so much.

But to each his own...

 

But if there was nothingness, how can there become something greater then nothingness if there was nothing to become greater ^_^

 

Math is a system. We haven't always understood math, or known what it is, but even without our numerals math is a system that exists and can be used to explain all matter in an infinate number of ways.

So math did exist before the universe, assuming there was once a time, because math doesn't exist, its just an explaination, weather you know about it or not.

 

math is firmament....

 

I always thought the word firmament meant expansion....

 

At this point, I think we should point out that we are not really debating about the existince of math here.

My belief is that there is a Creator and that before he created there was nothing. Not matter, not an empty void...nothing. I think your perspective stems from the fact that there was always matter and big bang, etc.

If that were the case, which neither of us could prove beyond faith because we weren't there, then you would be right. I am not arguing that the theories of mathematics, or anything theory did not exist even before a human thought about them. We agree on that point.

However, according to my notion on creation mathematics did not exist before creation. Nothing existed. It's a difficult concept to grasp and I think our cold intellect makes it harder. We think of nothing as a black, empty space. But that's not quite it. The nothing before creation lacked time and space and everything else. It wasn't anything would could relate to today.

I think a really full proof of this is very diffucult to type out and I don't like typing too much anyway...

But again, to each their own...

 

I remember this argument about how apparently,everything came to be because of energy. Poof! (not that kind) There are many theories but i had this huge argument with these "different kinded" people. They said it can just happen out of nowhere, that there isn't one cause to human existence, just that it must be to do with energy because it is in everything. Some big enery explosion caused the trees to exist, the ocean and ourselves. My view was physical. In thermodynamics, the first law is that energy cannot be created or destroyed only transfered and transformed. Have you ever tried to have a conversation about physics with people who were talking about trees suddenly appearing out of nowhere? That leaves are green because one part of energy smashed with another part and poof, they're green? I really wish, people wouls study these subjects and develop a viable hypothesis.Otherwise it's a waste, while hilarious chat.

 

AS a youth i believed in God/Christianity,but in my later years i wholeheartedly believe in Extra-Terrestrials/UFO"s.In believing in both i came across alot of conflict.I have settled this w/in my own mind,by accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior,i believe in the bible,i believe in God,but i also believe God was/is an overseer for them,that earth is really nothing more than a huge petri dish.

 

Firstly, I never said anything about energy. I just said a Creator. And I don't believe anything exploded.

And according to your logic, if energy can't be created or destroyed, where did the first energy start from?

Anyway, I'll say it again. It's useless to debate this topic. It's all based on your faith. Even if your faith is based on science...

 

"where did the first energy start from?"

why do you assume creation if we have never witnessed it?
nothing ever begins
there is no true measurement of distance,no "moments" in time
there are no boundaries because there is an infinite amount of them

 

Krin,

I tried to make this very clear in my othe posts, but I don't debate this point because it is all about faith. No one was around that long ago. Even science won't boast that we know for sure what happened. This is just my belief. I am not trying to force it on anyone else.

Having said that, I obviously do believe that the creation of this and other worlds did begin.

But again, that's just my belief. And to each their own...

 

dont worry about "forcing" your ideas upon others,this is a discussion forum,its pretty much what we are here to do,share ideas
no one knows anything for sure,ever
you say "EVEN science wont boast"...but science is the most humble of viewpoints,and most religious viewpoints claiming absolute knowledge by necessity,because if they dont have pure faith thier god will punish them,or such
science is flexible,it admits when its wrong,and changes constantly
still requires faith,but its more of a....science,haha

but you never did give a clear justification of your faith,you just said you believed in creation

do you disagree with the notion that energy cannot be created or destroyed?
if so,why?have you seen an occurance of energy being created or destroyed?
I havent,so probability states to me it was never created.

 

i feel that God, he/she/it, is all around us and that we are capable of being very spiritual beings. i feel that we are all psychic, we just need to tune into the spiritual realm and believe. we all have wings, we just need to learn to fly.
hippiewise angel

 

I agree with you hippiewise...I feel too that God is within, perhaps in our souls, our spirits. We need to nurture these energies within us. We need to send love to our fellow human beings. We do have many capabilies that we need to tap into. We have strengh and powers within us that many of us will never get the chance to use. We all need to go within and silence ourselves and find the answers. Fill our hearts with love and spread that love around." EVOL"ve with love. I am proud of my daughter tricksters-choice who started this post. for one so young she is very wise and deep. PEACE AND LOVE TO ALL

 

I agree with Krin. With the cocept that energy is never created or destroyed. And same goes for a "before" or "after". Man created the concept of time and math as well so when trying to apply it to this it's hard.

As for the orginal question. Who created God? Well I think people make the mistake of trying to personify god. Maybe a long time ago to get us to better understand such an abstract subject we had to change God into something we can relate to. Man tends to personify many things but I believe the key to understanding such a complex subject is to try and simplify it compleatly.

If we all agree God is the creator then why does it have to be a person? We try to relate to god like this because we understand the concept of creation as how we do it ourselves. Like creating a house or writing a story or whatever else.

I don't believe we should try and say "It's god so logic doesn't apply" I believe God is very logical... maybe so logical we can't comprehend it if that makes sence.

I think god is something plain and simple. Not energy like most people think because then then idea is who or what created the energy, but I find that very close. I think god is simply creativity within it's self. It makes sence because creativity is what creates us all and creativity can not be created because it is itself.

...I hope that wasn't too confusing.

 

First: While you said nothing about energy, i decided to mention it as it all can conceivably come back to each other.

I believe in this physical theory of energy not being created or destroyed. Physics all over and for periods of time back this up, show me the resarch that says the opposite. This is not opinion but fact.
I don't think you can destroy or get rid of energy. It's everywhere, maybe in different forms like chemical energy but it is always here. Just transformed or transfered. Thermodynamics.

In terms of God, that is a matter of opinion. I find it funny though, that most of the religious people i've met choose to give god the credit for all the goodness and beauty in the world. But when something bad happens, it's our fault or the fault of other humans. Great little scapegoat they have there.

 

I do believe that all creation, including energy and all the worlds and everything was created. After that point, G d could still create energy if He chose to, but He respects the rules of nature which he created (meaning he does not disregard nature unless a miracle is needed.

So I haven't seen energy created either. It's just something that happened once, when no one was around.

That's my understanding, anyway.

 

I just noticed you never answered myt question to you. If energy can't be created ro destroyed, where did the first energy come from?

And I, for one do not give G d credit for only good. G d, in my view is constantyl creating every single aspect of creation always. That includes things which we as humans percieve as good and what we percieve as bad.

However, we down here never see the full picture. There are so many times when "the wicked prosper and the good suffer". There are many possible ways to explain this, but they all require faith and belief. And again, I am not trying to convince...all these things are opnions and theories.

Your notion that

"I believe in this physical theory of energy not being created or destroyed. Physics all over and for periods of time back this up, show me the resarch that says the opposite. This is not opinion but fact."

can't be right because you don't have a diffinitive answer to where first energy came from.

 

Energy is classified as "the ability to do work". It moves matter, which has mass and takes up space, against opposing forces like friction or gravity. It basically changes or switches matter if you like. A lot of things in life depend on cells transforming energy from one kind to another. Kinetic Energy KE: which is something that moves or has motion, Potential Energy PE: which is stored energy in the matter, Chemical Energy: which is a form of PE within the molecules because of the arrangement of the atoms.


In Thermodynamics, this is to do with the energy transformations of life. The first law is that "Energy can be transferred or transformed, but it cannot be created or destroyed".
A car for instance, changes chemical energy (the petrol) to kinetic energy (when it drives away). After the transformation, the work, what happens to the energy? It doesn't get destroyed. This is where the second law comes in.
"Every energy transfer or transformation increases the entropy of the universe". Whenever an energy transfer happens, it makes the universe more distorted and altered. This is called Entropy and is the measure of randomness. The more random a collection of matter, the bigger the entropy. In the transformation of the chemical energy to kinetic energy with the car scenario, this entropy is less obvious because it takes the form of heat. Forms of energy are not destroyed but converted to heat. For instance, only 25% of the CE in the fuel tank is used because the leftover 75% is lost as it transfers to heat.

Because the conservation of energy says that energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed, for all eco-systems we can trace the energy from it's solar radiation imput, to it's release from organisms as heat. Organisms that are photosynthetic, like plants, convert solar energy to chemical energy, but the amount of energy does not alter. It doesn't create any more or destroy any part.

I hope this makes my perspective clearer, if not, it was fun for me to type regardless. Chemistry, Physics and even Biology are very interesting and have more to do with everyday life than people realise.