What gives you the most pride about being canadian?

The most divisive thing when it comes to Canadian-American relations is American arrogance. Sorry, but Canada would not "crash and burn" without the United States; I think this is a mere delusion on the part of those Americans who know what and/or where Canada is.

 

Paul, you really do have a major chip on your shoulder...Please learn to be a bit more open minded, and to take people on an individual basis, instead of just ripping them for what country they come from.

 

do we need to cover how much of your economy is dependent on ours? Do you really think you can find foreign buyers without dramatic increases in prices, job loss, and loss of productivity? The same can be said for America if we were to lose the canadian market. Face it, our markets are so interwoven.


"Economic Impact
It is difficult to overstate the impact of international trade on the economies of Canada and the United States. In 2000, 43 percent of Canada's gross domestic product was comprised of exports and over 30 percent of total employment in the country was supported by exports. With 86 percent of all Canadian exports last year destined for the US, it is clear that trade with the United States creates an enormous number of jobs for Canadians.

Though the United States is not as export-oriented as is Canada, international trade does contribute significantly to the US economy. Last year, U.S. exports of goods and services comprised roughly 12 percent of the United States' GDP. (Exports to Canada accounted for roughly 20 percent of all US exports.) It has been estimated that nearly two million jobs in the United States are supported by US exports to Canada.


http://www.buyusa.gov/canada/en/traderelationsusacanada.html

 

Geez, I don't know, could it have anything to do with the fact that the United States had always fashioned itself as the land of "freedom and liberty" (well, for white males at least). It only stands to reason that when someone like Hitler decides to start a war in order to spread fascism to all corners, that the United States would perhaps care to help those who were most threatened. Guess not, though. Calling WWI or WWII "European wars" is quite ignorant.

As for Canada reason for entering into the war, how dare you insult... hahaha... do you really think you're burning me on this? That's hilarious. I know perfectly well why Canada participated, but this doesn't change the fact that the United States chose to remain aloof.

I think you need to do a little more research into Canada's participation in the Boer War. Canada sent several contingents of volunteers, individuals who chose to fight primarily out of patriotism. Many of these men, as was the case during WWI, were British-born.

You're joking, right? Do you even know what you're talking about? Oh please provide me with that extensive list of Canadian military ventures in the name of imperialism! There were always Canadian individuals serving in the British military, and as a result, were involved in Britain's imperialist wars, but Canada as a nation?--I believe you've already provided the answer. The Boer War. Oh yes, Canada certainly does have a long and sorrowful track-record when it comes to "imperial ventures" doesn't it? Hahahahaha... what a joke.

 

Sorry, but if the United States ceased to exist, our economy would perhaps be adversely affected over the short run, but I don't think that it would be long before it would adjust, and new markets would be found elsewhere, markets that would now be possible because these regions are no longer oppressed by American corporate dominance.

 

Yes America has been decreed the land of freedom and libety, but i dont see how that relates to us having to go after every tyrant in the world. Yes it was largely a european war..remember, who did the allies decide to go after first, even though the US was attacked by Japan, not germany? Germany. Yes, many non european nations ewre involved(canada, china, japan, south africa to name a few), but do we forget where the main battlefield was? Sure wasnt the pacific.

Why is it that the ones who are quick to point out that America is not the worlds police man are the same ones who are even quicker to point out that america wasnt in the war from the start? Yes, we should have been in ww2 from the start, no doubt, but remember we are looking back with hindsight. America felt it was dragged into ww1 and went into isolationism mode, it took being attacked to snap us out of it. No one said the US is perfect, but dont for a minute ever doubt the US contribution to the war.

And yes, until the US joined the wars, they were european wars in my opinion(especially the first). If you know perfectly well why canada participated, than do tell us. You joined your allies to fight the war, which is laudable, but if you think it was of some great ideal to beat tyranny and not protect their own interests, you're dead wrong. Where were you when tyranny raised its ugly head all over the world before and after the wars? Why did you not join in them? Why did you sit by while tyranny reigned in south africa fo 70 years? While massacre after massacre happened in cambodia, sudan, rwanda? Where was canada then? Those are questions i ask about my country too. We have failed all over the globe to stop tyranny and mass murder, no one has the right to proclaim themselves as the champions of fighting tyranny. You do exactly what america is blamed for: Fight when its in your interest and turn a blind eye when it doesnt.


"The South African War, 1899-1902, is a key event in the military history of Canada. It marked the first occasion for which Canada dispatched troops to an overseas war. A total of 7,368 Canadians and 12 Nursing Sisters served in South Africa. '

http://www.lac-bac.gc.ca/02/020156_e.html

Where on earth do you get the idea that they were volunteers and were not dispatched by the canadian government?

And yes of course, i am refering to canadians fighting under the banner of the british empire, you did willingly fight for them, why should they not be counted as part of your history? Does your history start with 1867(i believe thats your "founding date") or not?


And you're the one joking, right/ Your economy might be 'adversally affected' LOL. 86% of your exports are bought by the US. You think you can just replace that overnight? If you think you could maintain the same lifestyle you have now, i think you need a reality check. We both benefit immensely from our close relationship..adversally affected? Lol, right.

btw, you forgot to answer my other question. How do you figure that much of America's prosperity is due to Canadians?

 

Keep researching, buddy, because these men were volunteers. How do I know? I've researched the topic. Of course the Canadian government sent them over, but they were still volunteers. And I'm sure if you cared to do some more research, you'd find that many of these men were born in Britain. As was the case with the "Canadians" that went over during WWI.

Oh no you didn't. You said "Canada's" not Canadians. You were clearly referring to Canada as a nation, and now that you've been set straight, instead of admitting that you're WRONG you start bull shitting. As the little quotation that you yourself provided state: the Boer War was the first time that Canada sent soldiers overseas. And I believe this is the only time that it did so in support of Britain's imperialist ventures. So one can hardly compare Canada's military involvement overseas to that of the United States.

 

yawn, can you not give a cite then to where you got the idea that they were volunteers?


here, let me use your own words.

"Well, I'm a history major, so it's safe to say I have a much more firm grasp of history than you do. The term Canada was used to refer to what is now Canada long, long before 1812. In the 1790s, the province of Canada was created, consisting of what is now southern Ontario and the southern portion of Quebec; these were refered to as Upper Canada and Lower Canada, respectively. In 1840, the Act of Union was passed, and the two were renamed Canada West and Canada East. This remained in effect until 1867, when Canada was "created" as you would have it. "

so, did canada not exist before 1867? furthermore, were people from canada before 1867 canadians or british? If they werent canadians, then please admit that no canadians fought americans in 1812.

Also, you've still ignored by question. Let me make it bold for you. How has much of american prosperity been due to canadians?

 

Following WW2 Canada sent a large combatant contingent to Korea

When the suez canal incident threatened to boil into another world scale war it was a Canadian, soon to be Prime Minister, Lester B Pearson who put forth the idea and lobbying required to implement a neautral, 3rd party observer under the flag of the UN. This was the birth and solid foundation of peace keeping.

Following this development in military deployments and international stability Canadas military continued on with it's support for UN sponsored stability operations and since has been deployed on over 70 such operations, nearly ALL operations of such a nature, often acting as the operational commanding force.

In Rawanda it was a Canadian peace keeping force which stood it's ground, while all other UN partners backed out and superpowers such as the US refused to show support, while the worlds first media covered genocide took place.

Afganistan marked the first time in 50 years that our military was involved in a combative operation, we went to show our support for the US, and we are now acting as the NATO sponsored stability command force. Al Quida has not carried out ANY terrorist acts in Canada and although it has threatened the entire western world it has never singled out Canada as a potential target as it has other western nations.

Our forign policy is RADICLY different from that of the US so don't bother trying to match up the records because a) chances are you're unaware of what we have contributed b) we are not by nature a combative or assertive nation and contribute to international stability primarily through our international development agency and secondly through our military, and not the other way around as yourselves in the US

The Canadian expiditionary force which was deployed to the Boer war was comprised almost entirely of Canadian Militia units, ie, regular old civilians, or VOLUNTEERS if you will

 

Oh yes, the suez crisis. Whose condemntation forced britain/france/israel to back out of the war? I'll give you a hint, canadian forces fought under his command in World War 2. So please, remember that Mr Pearson's contribution came after the US forced britain and france into a cease fire than ultimately out of the country. America played a huge role in keeping the peace, as did Canada.

Good for the canadian military to have. As i'm sure you're aware, America has participated extensively in peacekeeping operations(though none have done so more than canada) and have often times done the brunt of fighting(with britain and to a lesser extent canada) to ALLOW peacekeepers to be used(kosovo comes to mind). No one is denying Canada has done a lot of good, but so has america. With that said, america's participation has dwindled to just a handful of soldiers lately over arguments of the ICC and how it will affect american troops.

as for not being threatened by al qaeda?...think again

"The tape also attempts to justify recent attacks in Yemen, Kuwait, Bail, and Moscow as being carried out in defense of Islam, and link the current Iraq crisis to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. It also threatens Western countries as well as those Islamic countries that ally themselves with the United States. Aside from the United States, the countries threatened by Bin Laden included: Australia; Canada; Italy; France; Germany; Indonesia; Jordan; Kuwait; Pakistan; Russia; Tunisia and the United Kingdom"

http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/binladen-pr.cfm



as for the boer war..

The South African War


Pte. R. R. Thompson
In late 1899, with the outbreak of the Boer War, the Canadian Government offered Great Britain the services of 1,000 troops. Mobilisation occurred rapidly and on 29 November the 2nd (Special Service) Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment under the command of LCol W.D. Otter arrived in Capetown, South Africa. After completing familiarisation training at Belmont, it saw its first action at Sunnyside Kopjes on 1 January 1900. The most notable battle in which the Battalion was involved was at Paardeberg Drift where, with the British, it fought a numerically superior Boer force. On 27 February 1900 General Cronje - the Boer Commander - surrendered to the Battalion, exactly 19 years after the disastrous British defeat at Majuba Hill. Of note, Pte R.R. Thompson was awarded The Queen's Scarf of Honour for his actions during the Battle of Paardeberg.

Upon the completion of the one-year term of engagement, the Battalion returned home to Canada and was disbanded. During this same period, the 3rd (Special Service) Battalion was formed and tasked with garrisoning the Halifax Fortress from March 1900 to September 1902.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/athena/English/1_1_2.asp


Now this is where it gets funny. Yes, you have contributed to international security and stability in many regions of the earth. Let me remind of you the 100k+ american troops that have been abroad since the end of ww2 to maintain WORLD security. do you think we've had troops in germany for nearly 60 years just to cost the tax payers money? It was to maintain order and security! What about South korea? did you think the 30k troops were there just getting a good suntan? They have been there to defend south korea and stop the north from attacking.

Edit: Please dont even go off on an imperialism business unless you plan to prove that the US controls the german or south korean government. Have fun with that if you try.

The US has gone through great lengths to imrpove security and safety of individuals all over the globe. Dont let your dislike for the war in iraq cloud the facts.

So in conclusion, a pissing contest proves nothing. Both america and canada have done great things for the world.

 

Suez crisis - I didn't denounce the Americans contribution, just simply made note of Canada's contribution. I made particular note of it mostly becuase I feel the birth of UN peace keeping to be one of the most reveloutinary events in international relations and military diplomacy, and personaly feel that if we are EVER to enjoy true stability and security on a global scale (not just to those privlidged enough to be born within certain borders) it will only come as a result of such international efforts.

Peace Keeping-I don't get your point? once again, I didn't mention the americans, just clearing the air on our contributions.

Al Quida-my bad, but still, the points stands there has been no effort on the part of Al Quida to carry out any terrorist attacks in Canada, atleast none the Canadian Government has made us aware of

Boer War-I'm an ex army reservist, from knowledge of my own regimental history and that of other local regiments here in Ontario I know that the bulk of the RCR troops were called up from the militias as, at the time, the RCR consisted of a few regulars armed with moth balls and rusty tin, shacked up in a few ratty garrisons. If you like I can provide you with a list of honours and medals recieved by members of my militia regiment, the Ontario Rifles(a militia unit), today the Ontario Regiment RCAC (Ontario refers to the old county of Ontario where the regiment resides and not the province), while on deployment to the Boer War under the command of the RCR...bla bla bla, etc, etc, etc, moral of the story, I know more about my countries military history, the same military I briefly served in, have read about extensively and keep up to date on, then you, so quit quoting random websites you've likely googled.

Now, I really don't see where it gets funny at all. I don't recall bringing up American Imperialism or American military history what-so-ever, I simply made note of the differences of our forign policies, which most certainly exist. Heck I even left out my personal opinions, did I state anything other then fact? Furthermore I'm out and telling you that military action is not our, Canada's, first priority for attaining stability, so I don't give a hoot how many american troops are stationed world wide.

Let me go over it again, simple terms:

Canada thinks fighting is bad

Canada likes to play military monkey in the middle, not wild west sherif saves the day shoot em up

A couple of things to get through your head; the US has a population base and, as a result, a federal budget, of about 10 times that of Canada. We don't play international police man because: a) it's not feasable b) we don't want to and c) we don't have enough people to do it. We believe our time, money and resources are better spent on organisations like the Canadian International Development Agency(equivilent to USAID) and it's myriad of associate NGOs. This is why we spend more money funding such development and sustainability projects(remeber the 10x factor?) then the US and on the flip side why we alot WAAAAAAAAAAY less (way to much less in my opinion) to our military budget.

And I won't get into Imperialism, mostly because I can see the brick wall right now and I don't feel like running into it.

And in conclusion, I wasn't having a pissing contest, just contesting some rather outlandish oversimplifcations and statements you made about our military history, so don't go passing off the hot potato to me cause you opened the can-o-worms

 

Why would you clear the air? no one doubted your contributions. But you havent acted everytime there has been mass murder and tyranny, so for a canadian(not you, the other one here) to to boast about fighting tyrants while america was aloof, is of the utmost hypocrisy.

I dont care where they were called up from. The canadian government ACTIVELY participated in that horrible, horrible war by sending troops. Dont worry, it's ok to make a mistake. It wasnt the canadian government turning a blind eye for those who wanted to fight for england, so please dont make it out like that.

Now this is where you are wrong. YOu say american foreign policy is to act like a wild wild west sheriff. I say bullshit. You'll point to iraq as an example of us jumping to war. Remember, 12 years of diplomacy failed. Remember afghanistan, we gave the taliban a chance to hand over bin laden, they didnt. Remember before kosovo, we gave a deadline which passed before we acted. Remember the gulf war, we acted diplomatically first, that failed, so we resulted to force. Tough shit for those who tried to call our bluff. Yes, the CIA has done some fucked up shit in south america by arming dictators, blah blah. America almost always tries to act diplomatically before going to war. So please get off your high horse, americans love peace just as much as canadians, but peace doesnt always come through the pen.

you might want to trace the can of worms back to your fellow canadian, my friend.

 

No, and I think it's been stated why that isn't a possibility, but Canada has been and is involved in a number of peacekeeping operations. This is a concept championed by a Canadian, and a cause that Canada has been committed to ever since. The United States has been very reluctant to become involved in peacekeeping operations. But when it comes down to it, Hitler was an exceptional case in terms of tyrants, and the United States chose to turn a blind eye on what was happening. No matter how much you call Canadians hypocrites, the fact remains, the United States chose not to stand up to the most evil tyrant this world has ever seen until they were forced to. Not something to be proud of.

The circumstances surrounding how and why "Canadians" participated in that war are very relevant; it clearly shows that it was more out of obligation on the part of the government, and patriotism by the individual soldier, who, were mostly British by birth anyway. Moreover, this is an isolated case, so this is hardly comparable to what the United States has done militarily throughout the world.

Hahahahaha--"diplomatically" you say? Hahahahahaha... I've never heard anything so funny in my life. All I remember is 12 years of sanctions that led to the death of countless Iraqi children, as well as threat upon threat by the Americans. You call that diplomacy? Granted, Saddam was a tyrant, but seriously, you can't blame him for not being "diplomatic" during those 12 years--certainly the American government wouldn't be if they were in his shoes. As for Afghanistan--how quickly we forget. The Taliban stated (at least) after much threatening by the United States that they were going to hand over Osama, but obviously by doing so, the United States would no longer have reason to invade Afghanistan, which, of course, is what they really wanted. So when the Taliban said they would hand him over, the U.S. said it was too late and invaded.

 

It wasnt our war until they declared war on us. Still roosevelt did everything he could to try and join the war, including funding the allies(probably the single most important part of the whole war). I have no shame in the fact that we waited 2 years before entering the war. I also take great pride in knowing that when we did enter, our allies took us as the leader in the battle against hitler and put themselves under Eisenhower's guidance. I am proud of our contributions to ww2, and i think they are second to none. I am even prouder of how we handled post ww2. You can point to all the nasty shit our CIA did in south america, but remembered, you, like the US, allied itself with the the probably the worst and most disgusting leader in human history: stalin.

edit: As for canada championing peacekeeping, good for you. I'm glad you could work through the system that the US championed: the UN. I take great pleasure in knowing that the UN was devised by the US. So great, you championed peacekeeping to save area's like bosnia and somalia, and the US devised the plan that is largely responsible for world wide security. Again, is this pissing contest really necessary? I will continue if you want to continue trying to prove that Canada has done more for world wide security than the US.

I will also point you towards article 42 of the UN charter

Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter7.htm

I wonder if UNEF sprung from this.


Why are you trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for your nations actions in the boer war?


How many resolutions were passed against Saddam hussein demanding he disarm, demanding he leave kuwait, demanding he allow inspectors in? He ignored them everytime until US force was used or brought to his doorstep to enforce the resolutions. Remember, saddam rejected the inspectors 2 years ago until Bush upped the anty threatening war and started to send american troops to the region. All you have to do is read the resolutions and you can see that saddam was not cooperating.

edit: As for the sanctions, it was saddam's fault that that the sanctions wree on his country and he knew how to have them removed. Instead, he left the sanctions on and was content with having his people die while he built more palaces. All the deaths from the sanctions fall on his hands
When did the taliban say they would hand Osama bin laden over directly to the United States w/o stipulations after 9/11 and before enduring freedom started? Remember, the UN security council passed a resolution putting sanctions on the taliban and demanding the immediate expulsion of OBL from afghanistan. There was no room for them to try and negotiate. So what is your source?

 

I don't have time at the moment to deal with your entire post, but I'll reply to the part that makes me laugh the most.

Why should he have left Kuwait? Are you not familiar with the history of the region, and the nature of the territorial dispute between Kuwait and Iraq? Granted, Saddam was a maniac, but from the looks of it, he had a legitimate beef with Kuwait; Kuwait was knowing violating Iraqi territory by drilling in and/or into Kuwait. Kuwait did this knowing that no one would take a hot-head like Saddam seriously if he complained, and that the U.S. would back Kuwait if there was a war. Why? Because of oil and the fact that Kuwait invested heavily in the United States. That's why the U.S. jumps to the defense of little ol' Kuwait, but not Black, African Sudan.

Oh, isn't that a shame that Saddam wasn't co-operating... Perhaps it hasn't occured to you that the United States isn't all that co-operative when it comes to disclosing its arsenal of chemical and biological weapons. Now there's hypocracy for you!

 

Imagine
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

 

RESOLUTION 660 (1990)



Adopted by the Security Council at its 2932nd meeting, on 2 August 1990

The Security Council,

Alarmed by the invasion of Kuwait on 2 August 1990 by the military forces of Iraq,

Determining that there exists a breach of international peace and security as regards the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait,

Acting under Articles 39 and 40 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Condemns the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait;

2. Demands that Iraq withdraw immediately and unconditionally all s its forces to the positions in which they were located on 1 August 1990;r

3. Calls upon Iraq and Kuwait to begin immediately intensive negotiations for the resolution of their differences and supports all efforts in this regard, and especially those of the League of Arab States; 4. Decides to meet again as necessary to consider further steps with to ensure compliance with the present resolution

http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0660.htm


i hope you were just joking, and you werent really asking why he should have to leave.


Let me ask you this, why was canada so ready to jump into the gulf war but hasnt helped the blacks in sudan? Dont even try and accuse america of racism, when you yourself have stood by while multiple massacre's have gone on.

let us remember which nation has termed what has happened in sudan as genocide, a term which requires the immediate intervention by the UN. The EU is disputing the fact that it was genocide, and there by, they are not forced to intervene in sudan..but the US is the horrible nation. What is canada's official stance on the sudanese crisis?

 

I cleared the air because you did indeed doubt our contributions, you made the statement that Canada essentially sat back and did squat following WW2, being a former serving member of our armed forces I took offence to that, I have friends who have served and are currently serving in operational theatres where thier lives are at risk, daily.

As for american forign policy, I've stated my opinion, I really don't wish to debate the matter.

 

Hahahahahah--are you serious???? Do you actually, sincerely believe that you're proving anything by doing this???? Hahahahahahahahahaha...

You don't know the first thing about the events leading up to the Gulf War, do you? Kuwait was not going to sit down and discuss anything--those greedy, oil-hoarding bastards were going to goad Saddam into a war (with the United States) so that they could get rid of him and solve the border dispute with him in a manner that was favourable to them.

Would the United States try to find "diplomatic" solutions to a crisis if, say, Mexico decided that they have ancient rights to parts of Texas where there happens to be oil, crosses the border, and then starts drilling??? I don't think so.

It's interesting that you didn't bother addressing the hypocracy of the United States' secrecy concerning its own arsenal of WMD.

 

Where did i say anything of the sort? I love your use of the word "essentially." Yes, i took aim at a person who mocked America for not joining ww2 early enough and for not fighting tyrants while Canada clearly was and i pointed out that it was hypocritical to do so, since there were numerous instances that canada hasnt acted. I even accused my own country of the same thing.