what do you think now of alcohol?

you really dont know who you are talking to.

maybe i shouldnt have said 'hand eye' coordination. - alcohol makes all your movements sloppy - thats a better way to put it.

i realize that there are many musicians who like to drink before they play and they are convinced that it sounds good... lol

i guess one beer might loosen someone up so they can flow and play smooth without hurting their abilities. but then you would have to keep drinking whenever you play - and the tendency with that is to go overboard.

i attacked him??? how?

 

3xi, I think the first one to make it personal was you, instead of keeping it to alcohol. When John disagreed with your post, he especifically said I disagree, but we are all different people and we have different reasons to do what we do and he in no way said anything about you.
Then you replied with the "if you need alcohol to enjoy yourself there's something wrong with you", he never said he needed alcohol to enjoy himself and then you said "people like you can somehow dent it". What he said was only talking to his own experience with alcohol, not you.
He was sticking to the conversation about alcohol and what he thinks of it, you somehow ended up talking about what you think of him and alcohol. I think it's obvious that it was you that conducted the discussion to a personal matter.

 

how is this any different than when i "attacked" him?

never have i said that i think i am better than everyone else. relayer keeps on saying it like he wants everyone else to disrespect me for thinking i am better than everyone else. the point is that i dont think i am better than everyone else and never have i ever said so!

i stand up for what i feel is right. i am honest and i speak my mind.

he likes to twist things around to make others think i am wrong for being me.

truth is that the world is full of people who are unable to be honest and speak their mind. we live in a world where it is better to have more friends than be honest. people tell me not to tell people what to do not realizing the hypocrisy in that.

i wasnt forcing anything down anyones throat - i was only making myself clear.

i come off like i know what i am talking about. i state it as fact. disagree if you like but do not suggest that my ways are not acceptable. we should all be accepted.

 

I took acid plenty when i was the age of most of the people in this thread, no coincidence that most are late teens early 20's. I enjoyed alcohol then, and I still enjoy it. The difference is i have absolutely no desire to touch LSD again.

 

"if you need alcohol to enjoy yourself there's something wrong with you", that is a general statement not directed at relayer but anyone who drinks.

about making it personal... how many of you have come at me personally in this thread???????? you included... hypocrites

 

The thread is not supposed to be a personal matter, it's supposed to be about alcohol and what we think of it.
I dont think I have insulted you in anyway, because I really know nothing about you. Im just expressing how it was you that turned this into something personal, not just about alcohol. Maybe you dont care about things getting personal, but that's what ruins good arguments about different topics.
If Im a hypocrite for saying that you turned this thread into something different than it was intended to be, then yes I am
Also once a person takes things into personal matters, you are just opening the door for everyone to do the same. Im just a kid and I know that. Not one single person directed you in a personal way before YOU did it. You should think about that, and I have not said ANYTHING about you, but that you made personal remarks about a person who was discussing the topic, that's all I have said.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, Im not saying to not think the way you think. Im saying there is a way of expressing your opinion and staying on topic.
Think about that when you reply to someone's post.

 

I never attempted to offend you anyway personally as I do not know you personally at all. I guess you can stump me on that technicallity with what you have quoted but what else would he expect when the argument was between specifically you and him and you used the word 'you'.

A nicer way to put it off so people don't wouldn't have to assume and detect the biggest of technicalities from your statements could have went along the lines of this:

"I feel as though people who need to drink to enjoy themselves may have something wrong with them."

;May; instead of ;do; as you are no one to claim whether a person you do not know specifically has a problem, no matter what they are diving themselves into. You know it would raise argument especially when he said he had a few drinks and was enjoying the party. As a rule in alcoholism it is up to the user to admit whether their drinking is a problem/wrong or not. And not everybody is going to know you right off the bat and have experience reading your old posts, so saying it's up to the reader to know you well and know you are truthful is a little excessive.

 

no you guys did not offend me. i have nothing against people speaking their minds. just wanted to make sure you all understand that you do the same thing you are upset with me for doing ... thats all

 

But no one was doing it until you did it, at least not on this particularly thread and this is in the thread that we are. That's what ruins good thread and that's what unables people to have a reasonable conversation on anything.
I think Swoosh advice was also a very good one, it really makes all the difference.

 

but i actually believe that they "do" have something wrong with them. so if i was to say "may" i would be lying.

there is nothing wrong with me speaking my mind. there is nothing wrong with my honest perspective. and there is noting wrong with me thinking that my perspective is right.

now, maybe we could all try get back to the point of this thread. many of you have tried to change who i am and how i go about speaking my mind before in other threads. if you really have something good to say to me personally - send me a pm. this thread is not about 3xi it is about alcohol.

 

so if i rob a bank before you do that makes it ok for you to do it?

i am not sure what you are getting at here.

so you just cant help pointing the finger at me after what i said. you can not bring yourself to get back to the original point and that is all my fault... huh... strange indeed.

 

That's not what Im saying. Have you ever heard of "Treat others like you would like to be treated". I think that explains things best. If you address a peron personally when we are discussing something like Alcohol, what makes you think that people wont respond you in the same way? why shouldnt they?
Again, I havent said anything about you, just made an obvervation of what's going here and how when you take things to that place, it just doesnt leave room for good conversation. Byt maybe we also have different ideas what a good conversation is.

 

i think that what she is trying to say here is that most of you kids will grow up and never want to touch LSD again like her. she figures that most of you will grow up to realize that alcohol is a much better way to go.

unfortunately i think i agree with her.

most people stop using LSD at some point. most people never stop drinking.

 

Seamonster is a dude, bro, just to clear that up.
Not arguing or anything

 

YES i have heard of that - "do onto others as you would have done on to you."... thats why i said that i dont mind when you guys have things to say about me.

that is also the point i am trying to make about you. if you dont think it is right for me to turn it personal then why do you do it to me. if you wouldnt like it yourself why then are you doing it to me???

and you havent said anything about me huh.... please go on... the last few posts of yours were directed at me personally. you are not making yourself look very good here.

trust me - we all do it... and there is nothing wrong with it. i appreciate your perspective. i understand where you are confused. now,,, please lets get back to the point... i was trying to with the last post of mine. i should have just left this one alone but i couldnt resist. i feel you could use the insight.

 

haha... ooopss

oh well

thanx for clearing that up

 

Allow me to elaborate. You can think whoever you want has a problem, but you do not know for sure that it is true so telling them that they 'do' is just wrong, because you just don't KNOW. You don't KNOW they have a problem, you only THINK they have one. Therefore, you can't SAY to them they do, because it will only spark arguments and them having to defend themselves. BY saying 'may', you can fall back on the point that you never said they did have a problem, thus saving them a lot of trouble trying to prove themselves worthy of not having a problem. Also by saying 'may', they will be able to explain to you whether they have a problem or not since you put the idea through their mind to think about, allowing you to toss away the thought that was in question. You are not them, you do not know if what they have is a problem unless you ask.

Indeed there is nothing wrong with speaking your mind, nobody said that. But if what you are speaking is damaging somebody else or provoking them then chances are it's not suitable for this forum, or rather an area more private.

Also if you want to argue, then you need to be valid. If you want to debate your points must be logical. Saying something about somebody when you do not know it is true, contains no logic to it as it is a blatant assumption. Go figure why 'ass' was underlined. You will be the one ultimately making an ass of yourself because you have no proof for what you speak.

Sure you can think you are right, if you can live with the fact knowing you may just not be. Sure you can whatever you want, but that doesn't mean whatever you'll say is going to be right... That's all I am saying.

 

no, i know they have a problem. that is my perspective - that any amount of alcohol consumption is a problem. so if i am right - that any amount of alcohol consumption is bad for you than i am not wrong to say that he has a problem.

the fact that i think he has a problem should not change the fact that you have the right to disagree and there is no way to know for sure who is right.

as far as you are concerned i dont know what i am talking about and that is just fine. the reason i state it as fact is because i believe that i am right. i am not unsure of how i feel. if i was unsure i would say he might have a problem. but i am sure so i say he does. go ahead and disagree if you like - i have the right to think differently than you.

 

Yeah Im very confused
The last few post have been me saying how you shouldnt address people like that, if a person feels is being attacked (which was very obvious, but maybe all of us who saw it that way are wrong) by someone they have all the right to defend themselves. Im sorry if that doesnt make me look really good.
I made a post talking about alcohol after all this thing started, but that one went ignored by you. I only joined in the current conversation, because I really didnt understand how you couldnt see what people were trying to tell you.
Back to alcohol I do agree that most people never stop drinking but they drink very moderately and on social occasions. Not to the point of being drunk, I would say an average of 1-3 drinks (from my own experience) and I dont see how that affects them in any way. Like I said before, moderation is very important when doing anything. We could be talking about coffee and if you drank too much of it, it's bad. Different substances have different doses that make the effect they have on the person ok.
I personally have never done LSD, but I've done mushrooms like 4 times. I think me becoming less interested in alcohol, not even, just less interested in getting drunk, had nothing to do with that, but just got bored of it, simply as that. But like I said I love beer, I dont drink by myself or with everybody. I also love vodka, so so good, but drinking doesnt equal getting drunk.

 

Honestly. You do not 'know' they have a problem just because they match your check list of what it takes for them to have a problem 'to you'. And that's precisely it, they only have a problem in 'your eyes'. The point I am making is it is not universal that they have a problem unless they state they do, or at least admit so. So yeah, you can think they have a problem, but whether they do or not is within them. It's just making an ass of yourself to assume such shit, I really wish you could grasp that. But maybe you don't care if you make an ass of yourself, just don't bitch when others do too, or complain about being hypocritical for that matter. Aslong as it's you thinking he has a problem that is okay. But to present your opinion as a fact of his nature is wrong and I just want you to realize this much. You're right, nobody knows who right except the person you are accusing. He may or may not, only he can say for sure.

But okay, I get your point in the last paragraph, just try and be open minded and be ready for debate. Absorb their points, give them a chance, let it effect / change your opinion if it gets you good enough. I hope we've come to an understanding.