What do u prefer

wouldn't pulling wisdom teeth be a more fair comparison than say 'chopping off an arm?'

 

I get a choice if I want my wisdom teeth pulled. I am also older and can understand a doctor's explanation for it and would be given treatement for the pain before and after. However, I actually still have mine.

 

Not if you were under 18 and thus the legal age of consent like me.

Besides, waiting for circumcision raises the risk of complications by a good amount. Waiting for the child to decide is not really a 'good option'

Here is another good reason which i rarely ever seen mentioned:

"In analysis of a national U.S. survey by Laumann found that uncircumcised males had a higher overall rate of all seven types of sexual dysfunctions considered, especially after the age of 45 years, at a cumulative 93% statistical confidence level. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_effects_of_circumcision


I personally want my penis to function for as long as possible..

 

You assume that it's an inevitability. It most certainly is NOT. In countries which do not routinely circumcise, the rate of adult circumcision is way below 1%. This includes men who choose to be circumcised and men who need to be.

 

i prefer circumsized. i've only ever been with one uncircumsized guy though anyway

 

Well first off you cannot go by studies that " THEY THINK" or assumed the researched was cancelled , without scienctifc proof to prove your point

Second. of course babies arn't sexually active, However, not all countries have that ability to just pop on a condom!

Third. Research is investigate that millions of men and woman can be saved from the HIV/AIDS virus that is currently being studdies by Medically trained doctors!.. This will all be backed up in 2007 with medical proof relating to aids and circumsion.

Partners working on this include bill gates and his wife, and bill clinton

 

Also my sons circumsion which is done in quite a lot of places is practically harmless to the little guy.. My sons penis was froze using a jell. I stood outside. they inserted a bell, and tied it off with a string. He never cried till the end when they gave him a bottle to drink and it was done. LOL. 5 days later the bell fell off and thats all it took. My baby was a very good baby and he only cried when hungry and had a dirty bum or gas. So my son has NOT been tramatized. hes a wonderfully happy little guy.. who giggles continuously.

IM such a proud MOMMY!! LOL
i love him sooo much.

heres the method below.. also look @ the bottom of this site it also states that There is also virtually no blood loss and, in more skilled hands, it can even be used on haemophiliac boys (whereas no other circumcision method can).
http://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/plastibell.html

If you wait for your children to DECIDE if they want it done it costs a couple thosand dollars and the procedure that i've seen is horendous.. Takes about 1 year for them to be fully healled with the scar...
Getting it done @ birth is soooooooooooooo much easier............. and it took 5 days for the bell to fall off and it was red for 1 day.. havent seen any problem.

 

So I guess you didn't want to read about the workshops and other methods that have brought up feelings of intense trauma , Betrayal, loss of innocence that has resulted from the loss of a part of something so sacred to a man.

And all that "I love him so much it was so easy" sounds like unconscious guilt stuff coming up, in my humble opinion. But since you don't consider personal, spiritual and issues of the psyche as relevant it probably doesn't bother you.

I'm in no way personally attacking you, This sort of unconsciousness is most definitely the norm, I'm just saying that there are two sides to any argument and a true decision based on "science" needs to deeply consider both. Which it seems to me like you dont even want to do.

Peace and love girl, but It's your Karma...

 

Another reason not to do it...If they give pacifiers or bottles to the newborns to pacify them during the surgery, they put them at a higher risk for nipple confusion, and that makes it quite hard to establish breastfeeding.

 

I make no such assumptions. However, a lot of anti-circ people say 'wait until the kid decides.' That is why i said its not really a 'good option.'

 

This occurs in what.. .01% of men? The loss of something so sacred? Give me a break.

Ironic, since it seems to be the pro-circ people who take science on their side. The anti-circ group relies on sensationalism... "HE WILL LOSE SOMETHING SO SACRED!"

 

Why can't we wait till he decides? It's HIS body, not ours. He is the one that's going to have to live with that body for the rest of his life. If he chooses to later be circumcised (which is highly unlikely), he will be put under for the surgery and receive pain medication later. His penis is fully grown, so there is no guesswork as to how much is safe to take off, as there is with an infant, and he'll be able to choose the method and style he prefers. And in an infant, the foreskin is adhered to the glans the same way a fingernail is adhered to a finger. It must be ripped off with a probe prior to being crushed and sliced off. In an adult, the foreskin has already separated from the glans and this step is no longer required.

By that logic, I should have my son's tonsils and appendix removed at birth because he'll heal quicker. That used to be common, did you know that? For 30-40 years in the US, every single baby (male AND female) that was born in a hospital had their appendix and tonsils removed and was circumcised (yes, girls were circumcised in the US). The rest of the traditions drifted away and only male circumcision remained. It makes no sense whatsoever that a boy should be circumcised because should he decide later he wants to be it will take him longer to heal.

By the way, I do not argue that the foreskin is any more sacred than any other body part. I argue that it is HIS body and there is no reason to remove a healthy, normal part of it. I have to go to work, so I don't have time to share the science right now, but I'll post some info later. I will say that not one single major medical organization in the WORLD recommends RIC (routine infant circumcision), also known as MGM (male genital mutilation). Most are very strongly against it, including the Canadian, British, and Australian Academies of Pediatrics.

 

As for circ'ing men in Africa - AIDS prevention or not... Good luck with that. Really now. If these men can't seem to come to terms with using comdoms to protect themselves from a deadly virus, ain't no chance in hell you're going to convince a grown african man that cutting a piece off his 'defining memeber' is going to help him. Even if all the proof was there.

Hell, even if proof was irrefultable I think you'd have a hard time getting even a Western man to relent.

 

First, how on earth does that justify mutilating your own child? You clearly have access to a computer and an internet connection -- why on earth would you think for a nanosecond that your child might have any difficulty getting ahold of a plentiful supply of condoms, that he might somehow be affected by this claimed (not proven) link between circumcision and reduced HIV infection? Seriously, if that is the justification for supporting MGM (male genital mutliation), then you just pointlessly mutilated your son.

Second, there is a simple answer to the condom problem. Agitate for realistic sex education, instead of Bush's retarded faith-based initiatives that preach abstinence (cuz that's working SO well). Raise a huge stink when you hear reports about Catholic missionaries telling locals that condoms will give you AIDS. And, finally, pay attention to the multinational corporations that are making huge profits on such simple life-saving technologies as condoms, anti-retroviral drugs, etc.

If Bill & Melinda Gates would take just a tiny fraction of what they're currently giving to med research and instead put it toward providing realistic sex ed and free condoms, they could do a lot more good.

 

actually if you read my post, i never said that is why i got my son done. I was refering to other cultures/countries and the reason for not practicing safe sex, and why studies may have found a link between getting circumsized and aids/hiv.

And u cannot tell me that u think people are wasting there money doing research on aids....Thats a barbaric,heartless response. As ive stated b4.. not all countries have that opportunity to have sex ed...
Of course they could be spending there money on other things, HOWEVER they must agree strongly of this to keep putting the money into it!!. Bill Gates is a brilliant man, and u should be extremely happy that there are people out there trying to find a cure, even if your anti-circumsision is preventing u from seeing the truth!!!...
I cannot wait to find out the results of next years study done in africa!!!

 

Blah. Didn't read this whole thread, don't have time - but wanted to give my 2 cents anyhoo.... I've been with both circ'd and intact men, and honestly don't have any preference. My partner is circ'd and I really do feel bad for him because I think he has a serious loss of sensation... (well, that's the only way I can explain him lasting as long as he does most of the time )

My brothers are intact and I was raised by my parents to understand and appreciate our bodies the way they were given to us naturally. I've known all my life, and make it no secret to my man, that if I ever have a son he will not be cut.

 

I read in an academic journal article that men who are uncircumsized are more likely to have "laissez faire" parents who do not intervene and discipline their son as often as circumsized sons are and as a result, uncircumsized sons are more likely to use and experiment with drugs as an adolescent.

I am not brainwashed. I'm an adult, and I know what kind of penis is the right one, thank you very much.

I like both. I like none more or less than the other.

In my opinion, there are benefits and disadvantages to both circumsized and uncircumsized men and I'm intelligent enough not to bash other people for making educated decisions that they can stand firmly behind.

I wonder, how do all of you "anti-circumsicion" people feel about abortions and fetus rights and the rights a woman has to her own body?

Does the "How dare you harm an innocent human being" argument also apply?

Food for thought.

 

I'm a pro-sex ed and b.c. pro-lifer, with the exception of mother's health, rape, and incest.

 

I've been with both cut and un-cut men. I perfer the look of cut men, my boyfriends cut and I had him read some of this thread. He doesnt think that he was ever muitlated, he's not angry at his parents, and if he had a son he'd want them to be cut too. I thought it would be a good idea to have a guys point of view on this topic, I dont think it's womens place to say that it's mutilating a guy.

 

Two questions, you child was having a VERY painful, needless procedure, a "jel" isn't going to kill that kind of hidious pain. (When it is done in older children and adults, they are often given a GENERAL anesthetic, a little Benzocaine isn't going to kill that pain, no way, no how. Either is Tylenol, for heaven's sake.) WHY the hell were YOU in an other room while they mutilated him? ALL parents who "choose" to do this to an innocent infant should not only be shown videos of babies being circed but shouold be REQUIRED to be IN the room and HOLDING the baby, on the piss stained Circ-retraint board, while their infant is being mutilated.

TWO, why the hell was he given a bottle afterward? You don't think babies need foreskins, then obviously you think your breasts are just as useless? In your little world, does artificiality trump nature?

Oh, BTW, I've witnessed circs (and I was a hell of a lot closer than most of the bravery lacking parents were, too) and most of the time, the baby goes into "silent scream" mode, y'know, where they scream so hard that NO noise comes out, and the child goes to sleep as a DEFENSE MECHANISM. Like, when kids are sexually abused, a lot of them go into an altered state. Same idea, LEAVE the place and event where your parent abandoned you, and allowed you to be harmed in a very private place on your body. They just zone out. Looks like sleep, It ISN'T, it's a small infant with NO defenses trying to deal with a horrific event.

Hey, why not remove the outside pinna of your baby's ears. Hell, they don't need iit, milk gets behind there and it smells it would make "cleaning" the inside of the ear "easier" and you wouldn't have to even BE IN THE ROOM WHILE THEY CUT THE PARTS OFF OF HIM. You could just stand outside and have them give him some crap sugar in a plastic cylinder, with a rubber teat, while you rested assured in the confidence that it will make cleaning his ears easier, later. :bigear: Hey, if it makes mommy and daddy feel better, they could rub some Anbesol on the ear. Then, they could feel better about it. (BTW, THINK about cutting off the Pinna of the ear..........it is LESS sensitive than the foreskin of a penis. Do you think some jelled toothache numbing agent would even dull the pain of wacking off your ear outsides?)

Jesuuuuus.

Do you have a reference, preferably with P values, for this particular piece of propaganda? Really, Aris, I expect better from you. And most studies have found that the more severe home "discpline" is, the more likely kids are to abuse drugs. But, the connection you quoted above is just SILLY. just one warning, this will NOT be turned into a "if you don't beleive in circing, then you have to be prolife" argument." I am serious. That is, as well, as sillly, connection. And the two are not related, and any further discussion of this "connection" will be subjected to the Off Topic Guidline. STAY on topic.