Was Aileen Wuornos Really A "Monster"?

Anyone who is interested and is in the UK (or can get UK tv...) there is a documentry about Aileen Wuornos's trail on channel 5 tonight at 11.20pm. Could just be the same old, same old same as all the other docu's about her but you never know, could be interesting.

Ps. I personally do NOT condone what she did, nor do I think of her as a poor little victim, and I DO understand that she murdered people, I DO think that is a horrorendous thing, I HAVE stated in quite a few of my posts that I and the others I was exchanging thoughts with on this thread were merely examining the possible causes to why a human would kill another, because I find it very impossible to believe that anyone can simply be born that evil. Surely something made her that way, right or wrong. We were simply looking into the psychology of it, NOT finding excuses for her!! To be frank it's getting a little old and tired having to keep explaining that to people who just don't seem to get it. I don't tend to go around 'excuse searchin' on behalf or murderers!!



ps. nicely avoided everyone. if you don't know what I'm talking about then just forget it. it clearly doesn't matter. (except to me)

 

You know what's especially obvious? How the ones that keep going on and on about how we are "excusing" murder (when we have been quite clear on how we totally understand that murdering people is never something that should be condoned) seem to have an awful lot of hatred towards street people and prostitutes. Period. And I think that same kind of ignorance is what helped Aileen to become as desperate and disturbed as she was. People DO NOT choose to be degraded on the streets. Something is already very wrong when that happens. Many homeless people are mentally ill, and are not getting any help. Because the government (and a large percentage of the middle class public) could not care less. Period.

And these same folks here that would like to demonize Aileen now, are the ones that also like to blame the sick and desperately poor for being on the streets. That they "choose" to live that way. Why would anybody in their right mind choose a life of fear and degradation? But it certainly is convenient to go ahead and believe that, instead of holding our government responsible for all the insane Medicaid cutbacks and such. Just demonize the poor. And when things really get out of hand (like in the case of Wuornos), then simply rely on state sanctioned executions to solve the problem, right? Instead of trying to figure out a more humane way to prevent tragedies like that from happening.

Yes, it is all very sad indeed. For her victims wasted lives. And for her own wasted life. And our government does play a huge role in this. Even though it's so much more convenient to simply say it's just an individual's "bad choices." What about collective bad choices? Where's the responsibility in that? Also, if murdering people really is wrong (which it absolutely is) then why is it okay for the state to legally kill people? Why are there not more people saying that folks like Bush and friends are "weak" and "monstrous"? Instead of merely fixating on Aileen Wuornos? Seems like a bit of a double standard to me. Just a thought.

Peace,

PD

 

You're damn right!! You bascially have summed it up, you know it, I know it, THEY probably know it too, but it's too far out of their 'comfate zone' to admit it. A small percentage of people have the balls to step out of their 'comfate zone' (and yes, guess what people, it's uncomfatable...) and acknolage that, most though sadly don't. That is what makes this an unjust and frankly scary world where horrible violent crime 'just happens'. Aint nothing ever going to change untill the moral morgority turn they heads to actually LOOK at what can be done instead of pretending they can't see it. Stop pretending you don't see the signs and it simply 'can't be helped' then be horrifide when it does happen! For example, does that homeless person on the street (who is looking up at you with hopeful eyes that you might actually stop and help them...) not exsist if you pretend you haven't seen them?? To these people, the anwser is a depressing NO, they don't. Out of sight out of mind, huh? Untill one day they come back around and bites them on the ass, then, only then they DO exsist and everybody is up in arms in outrage at how this indervidule could have done what they have done. Well, I say the question ought to be 'how could things have got this far to have made this person do such a thing?...' NOT 'how could this person do this?...'

And for the benefit of anyone reading this who is thinking 'Oh my gosh, this girl is condoning murder, she's making excuses for them and thinks it sociates fault.....' NO, no I don't. Murder is murder, it is clearly not a good thing and a murderer is a murderer and they clearly did wrong. I just believe that when a baby is born into this world the child doesn't already have 'murder programmed it to it's mind'. Some where from birth to their first killing there had to have been things/influences/events go on in their life to 'shape' them that way. Make them more inclined to be able to kill. That is something I don't believe anyone is just born with. That was for the benefit of resent silly remarks that have been turning up on this thread just lately, just thought I'd come back with my answers now to save myself my time and energy before the 'Oh, you think murder is ok....' comments start again, that I am very sure will arrive after this post.

 

Very well said. And I think you have been very clear on your points. I understand that you are not condoning violence and murder. Nobody on this thread is. And those remarks you mentioned were just cheap personal attacks made by people that are a bit too quick to demonize the homeless and desperately poor. Period. Because we are discussing issues here that are largely taboo. I mean, to actually suggest that somebody like Aileen Wuornos might have been a human being? Instead of just some evil little monster. And that there are two sides to this tragedy. Oh my.

Peace,

PD

 

Yes...we all hate the prostitutes...this is why we want Aileen to held accountable for her actions.

*rolls eyes*

I'm betting none of you know what it's like to be desperately poor and/or homeless.

You sit in your warm cozy homes with your $1500 computer systems,probably went to college or atleast finished/or finishing high school.

Give me a break. You can't legitimize your opinions on Aileen any other way then to try to say that those of us, who think what she did was unacceptable and monstrous, "hate poor people".

WTFever.The only poor and disinfranchized you know is when daddy grounds you from the computer and thrift store.

*waits for the inevitable..."but I was poor once...blah blah blah." cliche that can only be found on Hipforums*

 

I have NOT got to justife a fucking thing to you about whether I was ever poor/homeless/etc, etc......all I will say to you is you have not got a fucking clue about my life so don't fuck presume you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 'Cause you DON'T know shit about me!!! Or what I might or might not have gone through.

Oh and if you felt SO sure that there would be that 'inevitable come back' where either myself or PoetDude came back with '...well actually I have been poor once...' then why fucking be so thick as to say we never have been in the first place if you felt so sure to expect us to come back at you with a '...actually, yes we have....' ??????? Damn you're thick.

 

little known fact. Most people do not consider Wuornos to be considered a serial killer. The more common view is that she was a woman only attacking bad Johns. the fact that she did this before hand also makes it seem less likely that she was one.

I'm a serial killer fanantic, the facts that I know about her and the facts I know about other ones just don't add up.

 

I find it almost comical that clueless reactionary types like yourself feel the need to get personal whenever somebody tries to take a look at life in a less black and white sorta way. You do understand that there are gray areas, huh? Hello? *rolls eyes* I won't even bother to dignify the rest of your idiotic comment with a logical explanation. Clearly, you love the sound of your own bitter ignorance. Period. You want to sling insults? Instead of having an intelligent debate? Cool. Then post an idiotic comment or two over on the Random Thoughts section. And stop wasting our time. You obviously never even bothered to read this entire thread before you went off on your reactionary little rant. *rolls eyes again* You really are such a genius.

Peace,

PD

 

There are way too many unanswered questions in this case:

1. How could "Selby" NOT have known that Aileen was murdering so many Johns? Until she conveniently decided to save her own life by setting up Aileen to confess to the murders on tape? So Aileen is bringing home one car after another, and suddenly has all this cash to spend on food, gas, motel bills, restaurants, alcohol, etc. When she barely was able to earn more than $5-10 per trick. Hello? Where was all that money coming from? Selby knew a hell of a lot more than she was owning up to. But she was a good little Christian girl. From a middle class background. So she walks away free as a bird, and Aileen (the monstrous street prostitute) takes all the blame. And ultimately loses her own life. It's pathetic justice at best.

2. Aileen changed her story several times. Why? And so she lost what little credibility she had at the start. I think she did this for two main reasons: To protect "Selby", and because she really did just want to be put to death. Instead of wasting away in some small prison hole. Plus she was fed up with being used by the media. Big time. I mean, the whole thing was becoming a circus. In any case, the reality of the case is this:

She was raped multiple times by Johns, and very likely almost killed by at least one.

She was being shamelessly manipulated by a selfish young woman that did not truly value or care about her well being. The same one that would ultimately help the state to put her to death. And then walked away without being held accountable for her own illegal actions. Which I believe were considerable ones. Gee, I wonder why none of our reactionary little friends are ranting and raving about that one? I don't know. Could it be because sweet little "Selby" came from a nice Christian backgound? And only a low life like Aileen is worthy of significant jail time and death? Just a thought.

She had very serious mental health problems that made her prone to violence: PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder), paranoia, and chronic alcoholism. Yet the court appointed doctors (just like our smug resident reactionaries here) all claimed she was not insane (which is simply a legal definition of the term, and does NOT mean that a person is not suffering from mental illness). For example, somebody like Ted Bundy was not considered *legally* insane! So go figure.

And sadly, Aileen could be her own worst enemy. Forever exploding (even during the trial), and alienating many of the people that might have been able to save her life.

So I'm curious now. What sort of theories might you have? It's always refreshing to actually find somebody with an open mind.

Peace,

PD

 

Round of applause for you!!! Well said!!
Huh, I just had a little 'pyscho' rant and yell at him, his ignorance just does rub me up the wrong way!!! But it's true though, he really doesn't know a damn thing about my life to make such comments about me either!!! But you said it best. Nice one.

 

Attention,this is the grammar police.We are citing Stasia for extreme fangurlish punctuation abuse.

*snatches the exclamation marks and question marks away from Stasia*

Don't worry little guys, this teh evol brat will never be allowed to harm you again.

Geez your whiny rant was exactly what I expected.My fun is complete.

 

Okay... forgive me right now if I screw myself up... put all of my research into this stuff away for the summer.

Main Serial Killer Events:
Most kill for the joy of killing or in lust modes. The killings for protection, money, ect are not true signs. Aileen killed for protection and probably also in the case of rape.

A specific type is normally looked for. Brunette girls, black homosexual boys, nurses, ect. She wasn't searching for a killing, she was simply picked up.

Most of the time there will be an understanding of the prey and the killer picks them up. Not the other way around.

There's more but i would need my information near by. Later for now.

 

F you arsehole, I don't have great grammer or spell very well because I'm dyslexic,......what's you excuse for being such an arsehole??????????

 

Oh, and one more thing, if this is your 'fun'....

....well don't you need to seriously get a life??

Not all that original either are you really? In you details where it asks for your sex, your answer 'yes please'.....Man, that is f'cking comic genious!!! Round of applause for you, you funny, funny man! SO original. Did it take you days to come up with SUCH a witty, cute answer or was it just a desperate plea??

 

Hey Stasia: Don't let the reactionary little fool (dear comical_otter) push your buttons. She/he/it doesn't even bother to read the material, and then goes off on a lame ass (oh so Dennis Leary-like) rant. Minus any kind of wit or intelligence. A pathetic little celebrity wannabe. LOL. Yeah, it must be nice to be such a legend in your own mind, huh? *rolls eyes* I love the revealing part about having fun? Somebody really does need to get out more. Big time.

Peace,

PD

 

You bring up some excellent points here. Also, I think a large part of the reason a case like this causes so many reactionaries to come crawling out of the woodwork is this: Prostitutes have always been easy prey for serial killers. Jack The Ripper, The Hillside Stranglers, Green River Killer, etc. Then we suddenly have an oddity like Aileen Wuornos turning the tables. Murdering middle class men. And this simply will not do. I mean, it's no big deal when literally hundreds of nameless street people violently lose their lives. It happens all the time. But when seven decent middle class men are murdered by a low life prostitute. Well, THAT is gonna get an awful lot of bitter attention. I mean, even the ever compassionate Jeb Bush *tongue in cheek* became a significant part of this reactionary circus.

Peace,

PD

 

You're right. I know it really. You are, you're right!

*MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM* I'm all chilled now.

 

Cool. PD and Stasia, you said everything I was thinking.

 

Doesn't fail to make me smile to hear that. So good to know their are like minded people, people with a SOUL, out there as well as PD and me!! You said it best:....cool....

 

Okay, so yeah, maybe you do get beat up. What's it like? It's not a very pleasant experience, is it? I know what I'm saying because I used to get beat up as well. And it is depressing. I was depressed at the fucking age of 12. If Aileen was telling the truth about the first guy she murdered tryin to abuse her, then you can't just dismiss it. He was trying to hurt her, she had a gun on her, why not shoot?
And yeah, she was a prostitute, so she should have known something like this would happen to her. You can't blame becoming a prostitute fully on her. What about all the things that lead up to? Sleeping in the snow? Being left by her mother and being shunned by we dad? She may have thought that she had no other way to make money. Prostitution was her last resort.
You can argue that there are lots of homeless people and you don't see them pointing guns at people's heads. Did you forget the fact that not everyone's the same? I love caramel, but my bestfriend hates it and I can't make her change her mind about it. Just like Aileen was different to you or me.
You may also think it was stupid of her to 'admitting' she was guilty. Her reason was to show society how fucked up it was. It was killing someone who it had framed for being guilty, when she was infact mostly innocent. She may have killed a few of the men even though they didn't make a move to harm her, but that's the person who she had been forced to become.
You may make fun of someone at school, and that bullying, it could lead to something big. Maybe not murder, maybe just craziness or depression. You may not care if someone calls you an ugly bitch, but that doesn't mean everyone won't mind.
Aileen may have been weak, but maybe not. She basically got herself killed to prove a fucking point. Would you give up your life to show what a shit-ass society we live in?
The argument against all this could be that Ailern is completely guilty. She did ho to all those men, who were 'innocent'. I know that prostitution isn't legal, but is picking up the prostitutes legal? Is it okay to give them the money so they sleep with you? Or maybe, they were just simply guys who needed a late night bang, and maybe they didn't intentionally hurt Ailern. So she is completely guilty. It was still her shitty childhood that lead to it. Maybe she was stupid or maybe she was weak, but like she said, if she'd come from a good home, she'd have been a 'decent member of society'. You can't underestimate how much a bad childhood can affect your life later on.

Not everyone is the same and not everyone has the same mindset.

Aileen may have been a cold blooded killer.

Or she could have been a victim of our actions and beliefs.

I don't know what you think, but I think she did kill out of self defence in some of her kills. The others? Maybe if society and the government wasn't so corrupt, she'd have turned out fine.