waiting until marriage

No, that's not my point. If you read Gen. 24, it becomes clear that Isaac was seeking a wife, and this was understood by everyone concerned.

 

Hmmm. It still reads that he took her into a field and made love to her right away. If you are "looking" does that make premarital sex OK?

 

I have to agree with that 100%. I was, in no way, advocating indiscriminitory sex. I married the man I made love to first.

 

I would like to know who married abraham and sarah. Who married adam and eve? Etc. The bible talks about marriage as the union of man and woman and the cleaving together of flesh. Jesus refers to the promiscuous woman at the well as having many (I think it was 5) husbands because she had sex with these people. I believe marriage is the simple act of union through sexual intercourse. Weddings, and being "Wed", on the other hand, is a ceremonial act that usually involves family, community, etc.

 

Interesting point. Who did perform Sarah and Abe's wedding? If they did indeed have one.

 

By doing so, she was agreeing to marry him. That is my point. Sexual intimacy was inseparable from marriage.

 

I don't think that intercourse alone constitutes a marriage, which is a lifelong pledge of covenant union. A public ceremony isn't necessary, but it provides an important element of community support and accountability.

 

Well, for me, Sex was always somewhat of a covenant. But, I can't say that is true for everyone. EIther nowdays or in the Biblical times.

 

Why does it always seem to go back to religious views?

I'd like more information on non-religious views for remaining chaste until marriage..

 

The article I cited was written from a Christian perspective, but I think this excerpt rings true regardless of religious belief:

Half of the marriages performed today will end in divorce. We have lost the art of commitment. We have seen our parents' marriage collapse in divorce or torturous cold war and we're afraid of it happening to us.



Says Frank Gaebelein, headmaster emeritus of Stony Brook School in Long Island: ". . . few would be so obscurantist as to deny any connection between the revolution in sexuality and such things as the breakdown of marriage, the plight of the family and the home."



The futility of the situation is this: our reluctance and fear nullifies our ability to draw security from that relationship. The very things we want so badly in a relationship with the opposite sex are unattainable without marriage.



"A good sex life very seldom produces a good relationship. But I know one thing: a good marriage produces a fantastic sex life, because sex is the result of a good relationship rather than the cause of it." (Josh McDowell and Paul Lewis, Givers, Takers, and Other Kinds of Lovers, 1980)



We are referring to the marriage relationships as it should be. Solid, stable, a place where you can share your innermost self without fear of rejection. A place to find your closest friend. In reality, most marriages are a long shot from these ideals because most people go into marriage today with no more commitment to each other than the partners of a secular corporation. Personality differences or incompatibility will dissolve this "contract" as readily as they break up business agreements. No wonder so many opt for a live‑in situation, to avoid the inconvenience of a permanent commitment.



The legal formality called a marriage license is merely a sealer. If there's nothing there to seal (love, faithfulness, honesty, commitment), then you just have a lot of mortar with no bricks. On the other hand, couples engaging in premarital sex may feel they have the bricks, but lacking the mortar they build a very unstable wall. In the test of time neither of these will do by itself.

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Cheers!

I'm not Christian; and so when people tell me I shouldn't do X because the bible tells me it's wrong, I think they're crazy and their point is completely lost on me.

But, for those who are Christian, and who read the bible and care about what it has to say, I give you the following piece, excerpted from http://elroy.net/ehr/fighttheright.html#sex. The man who wrote it, used to be a Fundamentalist Christian. I encourage all to go to his website and read the whole thing. He is a very interesting person.

[font=&quot]"SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS A SIN" [/font][font=&quot][/font]

[font=&quot]Is it? Fundamentalists would have us believe it. But the Bible is unclear. In Exodus, chapter 20, we read the Ten Commandments, and are told that we should not commit adultery. Adultery however is not defined as simply having sex outside of marriage. It's defined as having sex with a married person. Nothing is said to prohibit sexual relations between two unmarried people. In fact, if we look in the book of Leviticus, we are given a list of every situation in which we should not have sex. We're not to have sex with married people, or with family members, or with animals. We are not, however, prohibited from having sex with an unmarried person who is not in our family. [/font]

[font=&quot]A few people have interpreted Deuteronomy 22:13-21 to be against pre-marital sex, but when we actually read what's there we see it's about lying and bringing disgrace to one's father, not about sex. In these verses a man is given a bride by another man, and then goes to court to claim the woman was not a virgin. The verses then say that the bride's father must prove she was a virgin. If he can prove it, the new husband is fined for bringing shame upon the bride's family by claiming he was given a faulty bride. If she cannot prove she's a virgin, then she is put to death for being a harlot while still in her father's house. Notice that there is nothing said about the man not being a virgin, and there are no equal punishments brought against men. Why? Because this is not about having sex. It's about a woman who is still considered property, meaning she lives in her father's house and is being given to another man (in exchange for money), taking it upon herself to sleep around and thus destroying her value as a bride worth selling. In this case, the woman having sex brings shame to her family by making the father out to be a liar when he accepts money from a man who wants to bed down with a virgin. In short, while having sex outside of marriage is not forbidden by the Bible, the women not being honest about it brought dishonor to her father, which is a sin according to the Ten Commandments. [/font]

[font=&quot]Another verse, often quoted by itself to condemn sex outside of marriage, is Exodus 22:16, where we read [/font][font=&quot]"If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall give the marriage present for her, and make her his wife."[/font][font=&quot] But when we look at the verse immediately following, we get a whole different picture. In verse 17 we read, [/font][font=&quot]"If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equivalent to the marriage present for virgins."[/font][font=&quot] Just like the Deuteronomy reference we can clearly see this is not about sex, but rather is about destroying a commodity - a virgin daughter who can be sold for a price. In these Exodus verses it's spelled out even more clearly. There is no mention of immorality, nor is the man who seduces the woman penalized for having sex before marriage - only for having sex with a virgin, and even then his only penalty is to pay the father what the woman would have cost as a virgin. [/font]

[font=&quot]Some places in the bible, such as Mark 7:21, state that "fornication" is a sin. Fundamentalists like to interpret that as meaning "sex outside of marriage." It's not true. The Greek translation identifies "fornication" as being any "illicit (illegal) sexual activity." However, as we saw above, God did not mention sex between two unmarried people as being illicit. Interesting. And, in fact, we read in 2 Samuel chapter 5 where some of God's greatest leaders, such as King David (whom God called a man "after his own heart"), had hundreds of wives and hundreds of unmarried concubines (women kept in the house for the purpose of having sex). None of these were considered sins. It is only when David had sex with another man's wife (2 Samuel 11:1-5) that he committed the sin of adultery.
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I couldn't agree more; however, to marry simply means "to combine".

 

Actually, it's funny you should mention this... The longest marriage I had, lasted 10 years, and it was completely *business reasons* why we got married.

I think that when people look at marriage as a commitment sealer, THAT is the wrong reason. Because they expect that the vows they took will protect their relationship and when they see that it doesn't, the relationship falls apart.

You have to have a good, strong, healthy relationship to BEGIN with. Marriage will not make your relationship better. It does not change your relationship at all, except for legally/financially. I think if more people look at it the correct way, which is that it is strictly for business reasons, then more will last. But people place all that emotional garbage on it and expect it to be magical and then they are sadly disappointed, because it isn't.

Ever notice that more arranged marriages last longer than emotionally-charged ones? Why? Because everyone knows why the two are getting married. It is a business deal.

 

[/font]
Why was a virginity prized so highly? Because loss of virginity before marriage was considered a defilement.


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[font=&quot]I would wager that a majority of Rabbinical commentaries over the centuries have understood otherwise.[/font]


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The havoc that this caused in both men's families is painfully evident in the biblical accounts.

 

And why was loss of virginity before marriage considered a defilement? Because men have big egos and they didn't want to PAY FOR (yes prospective husbands bought their wives) something that has already been had by another. And though the deflowered DAUGHTER was no longer a viable commodity, her loss of virginity IN AND OF ITSELF was not a sin. And notice, unmarried MEN were allowed as many women as they wanted. They did not have to be virgins. So having sex outside of marriage itself is not a sin.

No one said that having a number of wives would make your home life happy. I know that if I was to find out that my boyfriend was seeing another woman, his life would be EXTREMELY unhappy, I guarantee it. But, the point is, having more than one sex partner is not a SIN. Yes, it isn't a great idea, but it isn't wrong.

 

In your opinon is it not wrong. It YOUR opinion it is not a sin.

 

According to the bible...

And in MY opinion.

But hey, if you want to remain a virgin until you get married, you go right ahead. Just because it isn't right for me, doesn't mean it isn't right for you.

 

No, just your opinion

 

Where in the bible does it say that having premarital sex, is a sin? It doesn't. Because premarital sex is not a sin, according to the bible.

Now, if you want to add to the bible's scriptures (which is a sin) then go right ahead.

You have to do whatever you are comfortable with. And if saying to your boyfriend "I can't have sex until we're married because the bible tells me so." helps you to feel better about what you are doing, then be my guest.