it goes like this you create a area where first there is pressure on muslim women to wear the veil this can be social pressure or physical violence then it gets normal for women to walk around veiled . a non muslim women in that area will be hassled raped in some cases gang raped or acid attacked after a bit of this even they will start covering themselves up . gradually this area expands . oz you say you live in a country "that allows no one to be forced to wear a bhurka or veil, it's personal choice " how does the country do this is it like the country stops people using drugs .....you may have laws but that doesnt mean that people wont be intimidated into conforming to family or religious pressure . I have friends who have worn the burka in the uk and no way would they have gone to the law because they would have been killed , neither would they have walked about in clothes that they wanted because again they would have been killed or had a good kicking . look up honour killing
This may happen in some extreme and relatively rare cases. Clearly illegal activity like this is to be deplored. Non-muslim women being attacked and pressured to cover up by muslims? Please show your evidence of where this has happened in the UK. However, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the debate about whether it is right or wrong to let people have the freedom to choose whatever clothing they so desire.
i know all about honour killing, it has been well reported in the media over the last couple of decades...... i've also heard about hindu children being cast out of families/murdered because they have refused arranged marraiges... jewish children being disowned because they married outside of their religion...roman catholic couples been disowned from their church and culture because they used contraception and the head of the church of england (that's the Queen, if you didn't know) refusing attend her own sons marraige because he had previously been divorced. Catholic murder/persecute protestant and vice versa throughout the uk. Oh, and about a thousand women in court after being raped/attacked because "their skirt was too short" or "they were asking for it"..... just how many laws would you like to prevent people being harmed because of cultural/ethical/religious reasons? this country tried laws to force people to bow to religious/cultural pressure.... it isn't so many years ago that you could be thrown into jail for blasphemy etc, luckily, those days are gone... didn't work then, didnt' work now.. All the law can do is act on a reported crime...... luckily, more and more of these honour crimes etc are reported every year.... and more people are becoming aware that help is there, if they need it. The law exists to protect society from those who wish to live outside of it.... it does not dictate how society should be shaped. Luckily, we live in a country where both society and the law are free to evolve to suit each other better..... if british society becomes prodominately muslim/hindu/jewish etc then so be it... it's not the laws job to prevent that.... there are still people sitting in church every sunday, longing for a return of the days of empire, hating the blasphemers and thinking that Enoch Powell was right....is that the element of british society you would like to see the law "favour"... is that the "being british" we should try to preseve? If not, could you tell me what "british society" is? presumably it is one that doesn't include the right to wear what we want.... If you are asking if i have a solution, the answers to how a muliticultural society can live in perfect harmony, then i don't...... nobody has. Many think it's through total integration (again, this ideal of "british society" wotever the hell that is)... others see nothing wrong with sub-cultures practicing isolationism, keeping themselves as seperate communities, i have no clue which way works better, only time will tell i guess.
I just observe that the nation is made up of different waves of immigration, and all previous peoples of differing backgrounds eventualy integrate into the melting pot. The difference with this, is that it is strictly seperate and does not want to integrate, it is and will cause more problems. There is a problem with Islam and the West and wishing it wasn't so or shouldn't be so, or declaring who's fault it is won't change jack. This I believe is a major concern for the stability of our society. I was raised to believe that it is inherent on the visitor to show good manners to the host, keeping your face covered is just plain bad manners to the majority of people. No-one gives a monkeys about style of dress.
Why do you assume this is the case with this 'wave' of immigrants, when it has never been the case with previous 'waves'? People have always said exactly the same thing about each new group of immigrants, and have always been proved wrong. As time goes on and children are raised wholly in the UK and begin to be immersed in its culture, this kind of practice will slowly but surely begin to die out. It's always the way.
It always has been true and could be so again, but there is a difference about this, namely international conflict, the Third World War, overly dramatic, I'm not sure. The home population be they whatever colour or race will be uncomfortable with some people openly declaring for what is believed to be the other side, just a little common sense might go a long way.
at uni there was an islamic studies course on my campus...there were a lot of people wearin those cover your face veil things...awful as it sounds i actually felt sorry for them that they are forced to cover up by their religion, that they cannot express themselves freely, but if that is all they know, then i guess its not an issue for them, so why must we make an issue of it
i think to say that these sort of practices will gradually die out dismisses the power of religion and doesnt fit in with what has happened in other countrys . things could go the other way and gradually we can change already we have in that your unable to write or draw things freely without the fear of being killed http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...uslim-_He_Shouldnt_Be_Allowed_to_Comment&only this is interesting notice how the women at the end says that jack straw shouldn’t be allowed to comment on these kind of issues, this is a Muslim issue.”
It will take a couple of generations, but it has always been the case that religious and cultural practices like this begin to die out as people gradually, slowly, become assimilated into British culture. It's usually the case that older generations try to force the younger generations to comply, but those younger generations, as they grow up and become autonomous, by degrees but nonetheless inexorably begin to change their ways. The same is true of arranged and forced marriages among the Indian and Pakistani immigrants who are now second or third generation. It's still a problem, but many many British born young asians would be appalled at the notion, and as younger generations come up these attitudes will become gradually more ingrained. Interesting article about honour killings: http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002608.html This quote seems to make the case: More young muslims are coming forward precisely because there is a tension between the (relatively) progressive attitudes they hold and the reactionary attitudes of the older generation. Clearly this tension is a source of great problems, but it volubly makes the case that change is happening, slowly but surely. The reactionary behaviour of the older generation will be powerless to stop it. This is how it always goes.
I'm against the veil. I think it is a start symbol of the oppression of women. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that women should wear one, it simply says dress modestly. Also, I can sympathise with Staw's preferences. I don't like talking to people wearing sunglasses. But, neither am I in favour of the state legislating against human freedoms. People should have the right to wear what they want. This could be seen as an attempt by a Western state to single out a minority. Change must come from within, any attempt for a state to attempt to suppress matters that are on the surface ones of individual choice, may push people further towards conservatism and reaction. Of course this is not a matter of personal choice, it is a matter of religious repression of women - but this is something that the Muslim community must come to terms with itself. The West cannot dictate change from above....
Well, I'm a prime example of how these things can die out. I could have been a Muslim like my grandparents, but I chose to be an athiest, and I know quite a few young people with very religious parents or grandparents who have made the same choice. I never left the religion, because I chose never to join it in the first place...
Mirror sunglasses are the worst - just appalling! As a shy boy I have a hard enough time maintaining eye contact as it is but if I have to talk to a reflection of my own face ... argh!
