vegetarians in paganism

Yeah, I've found that too.

Guess it's just because there are more omnis in general.

 

There was the God of the Hunt. He wasn't hunting for his lost car keys...

 

Actually, I felt that you were quite reasonable in your tone. I just felt that Lazuli Blue was heading in a rather hostile direction that I didn't want this to go toward.

And as far as returning to hunting/gathering, I don't feel that would be practical for our current scenario. Neither does Daniel Quinn, and being and avid reader of his works, I know you can quote him on that. What he suggests is rather that we understand the foundations of our species, as hunter-gatherers, and that the Adam & Eve story as recorded in the Bible is merely an analogy for the "fall" of mand during the Agricultural Revolution (for more info on this astounding theory, read his book Ishmael). By understanding this and thus our overdependence on Totalitarian Agriculture as a food source, he feels that we can reform our cultural paradigm and perhaps rely more on small farmers and some hunting/gathering.

"Ishmael described us as 'prisoners of a civilizational system that is destroying the world.' Understanding this doesn't get us out of the prison, however; it just makes it possible to begin examining ways to escape. In other words, no one can escape until he KNOWS he's a prisoner. Totalitarian agriculture is part of the prison structurebut, again, just understanding this doesn't give us a way to end it. We are indeed imprisoned by it. Even if nothing can be done about it, however, people need to understand it. And I'm sure nothing will be done about it till we end the self-perpetuating race between food production and population growth. And that's something that CAN be thinkably donethe same way the arms race was ended: by walking away from it. But, as always, this can't happen until people finally understand that the race between food production and population is as unwinnable as the arms race. Changing minds remains the key." ~Daniel Quinn

But I feel as if I'm straying VERY far from the original topic, and thus I think I'll make this my final word on Totalitarian Agriculture. Very sorry to silent for digressing so much.

Peace.

 

I have to disagree with that.
Eating meat doesn't make an animal smart.
Elephants are not dumb at all. And there not the only ones... believe me, I watch a lot of animal planet... or at least I used to...
At least some of you have your points and defend them reasonably without stupid coments. And I respect you for that...
But really, hunting doesn't make you smarter. I would give you examples but I don't have time right now.

 

Read The Hunting Apes:Meat Eating and the Origins of Human Behavior
by Craig Stanford.

The study of anthropology and human development
is a little different than watching Animal Planet.

Thanks for that little defense though, it was cute, especially
the part about Elephants not being dumb. I seem to remember
seeing an elephant on animal planet doing Trigonometry and
designing a twin span bridge just last week.

Sorry, what was I thinking.

BTW, by dumb, I meant not as smart.

 

1. Of course eating meat doesn't make you smart. Neither does eating vegetables.

2. Animal Planet is the only channel I'll watch on tv. The rest is garbage. I'm aware that chickens are as smart as dogs, etc. I've read a lot of PETA material and I was a vegetarian for about a year. BTW, PETA kills animals too, look it up.

3. Hunting IS a little bit smarter and a bit more respectful. Your not eating meat from animals who were put in small cages, tortured, hung from a machine and decapitated, and then shipped off to KFC.

 

1. True enough, I was omni for 16 years and couldn't do trigonometry. Haven't read up on the argument concerning evolution it so can't really say more.
Have to wonder though; if meat eating is so linked to intellect, then why aren't carnivores as, if if not more, intelligent than humans?

Also have a problem with how we measure intelligence. It's by human standards, which are irrelevant in the context of animals. To me an animal's intelligence is in his ability to survive and not get eaten. A human's is measured by what they can do above and beyond that. OK so my rabbit couldn't write a novel, but if we were both dumped in the wilderness he'd know what to eat, where as I'd be screwed.

2. Fair enough, I watch it too. Though it often winds me up that it seems to pander to the kind of 'animal lover' who actually just sort of likes the cute interesting ones and eats the rest for dinner (that's called speciesism). Would rather hang out with my own rabbits.
I did the PETA thing too, but don't really suppourt them (prefer VIVA and animal aid). Yeah know about their animal culling, not a huge suprise just absurd sly hypocracy. Ah well have some to expect it.

3. Totally agree with that
Heresy as it might be I don't actually have a problem with meat itself. Would happily eat it if someone had hunted it was respect, skill and out of necessity. Just can't bring myself to suppourt the industry, and am happy & healthy without it.


PS I wrote another post in response to Heron's point, but it wouldn't post for some reason. Meh shall consider it fate or something.

 

If you go by the argument that eating meat makes you smart, there would be a lot of animals much smarter than humans, as there are animals whose diets are based much more around meat than ours.

And also, one could say that trigonometry and other studies exemplify human intelligence, but what do these studies provide to us that aren't negated by our downfalls? I believe that humans are actually some of the stupidest animals on the planet---we can make computers but we can't live sustainably, we are the ones that follow political leaders like mindless drones, and we are the ones who are killing ourselves with our toxic culture.

 

Yup so true, that's what I meant.
It's very embarassing really.
Have great humility over this supposed intellect thing, being so frequently outsmarted by a rabbit.

 

You have to also consider capacity. Apes have the capacity to do what we do, lions do not. Apes of all kinds can solve problems and use tools if needed, cant think of many deer that do that.

Some animals, if all conditions are right, have that capacity. Eating meat sped up the process for we naked apes, and that is what kicked our evolution into unseen reaches.

 

very valid point. its pretty much been all downhill from the beginning of civilization. things arent exactly lookin up either. you guys look around this earth lately? insanity runs freely in sooo many ways and it grows and grows as we accept it more and more, and our lives just get worse and worse and reality continues to become more twisted. its like a living entity, a big entity, that unfortunatley no one person is likely to stop or even begin to touch. were collectively fucking up on a very large level in many ways right now i think, and thats all weve ever really done i think. then again, life requires challenges and learning and work, and that is sordove written into the design i think.

buuut, i do think the animals lives who are treated so CRUEL and wrong are precious, and much more precious than most of the humans whose life they sustain. and i do think they are verrry much worth the little energy it takes to turn vegetarian or eat organic meat, not to mention the help it brings with personal salvation and health. isnt the one pagan law harm no one and do as ye will? well, i can accept some harm, because that brings growth, but the meat industries are outright cruel and wrong and their taunting and fuckin up this earth.

 

Absolutely, ITA!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's true for me too.