Vaccines for children

I know which is scary b/c babies are dying from things like whooping cough b/c ppl have stopped vax'ing.


I know there are campaigns running to try and bring back vaccines. Dr.Wakefield is a dickhead, for starting this craziness. And stupid celebs have promoted it and brainless media washed zombies have latched onto it as well. Must follow celebrities.

Then even tho the study was proved false people still believe, and are still trying promote it.

Be interesting to see if they did stop, just flat out stopped giving them out what would happen?

How quick would it take for something to start and then ppl cry out to bring them back......

 

I haven't had the chance to read all of this thread, because I a long work project to finish and I don't even know why I'm on HF, but I wanted to share that I have FOR NOW decided not to vaccinate my child. She's 3 1/2 and in the future I might decide to have her get a few of the vaccines necessary, but not right now.

I find this link to be excellent: http://www.rescuepost.com/files/gr-autism_and_vaccines_world_special_report1.pdf

Here in the U.S. is the highest in the entire world, we also were behind all other countries in the infant (children under 5) mortality rate and we also had the highest autism rate. Now that says something to me. Maybe it has nothing to do with the vaccines and more to do with the overall living conditions, lifestyle, diet, environment. I don't know, but not being sure is enough for me to want to delay and reduce the amount. In my country we have a smaller amount of vaccines too and autism is extremely rare.

It's not just autism, you can read the known side effects that come with every shot. It's scary and I realize that all medicine have side effects, but there's a difference between being sick and taking the risk of having a negative side effect occur because you need "X" to get better, than taking that risk when you're perfectly healthy as a "prevention" method.

Also, doctors hate me. I would like to add that no celebrities have influenced my decision, but a lot of extensive reading. Something that most parents that do choose to vaccinate don't do. It's almost like it's not even a choice for some people, they follow the schedule on auto-pilot.

 

that link speculates on correlation between autism rates and immunisations and infers causation.

really what you need is a proper epidemiological study that focuses on causation.

here are two:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
http://www.safeminds.org/research/library/20021107.pdf

and this summary's very good, as it provides references to the a whole host of other studies:

http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/pdf/10.1586/14760584.3.1.19

plus the correlation between autism and MMR may have appeared to be related in america, but that's not necessarily the norm, such as in my own country, where autism levels rose independently of vaccination levels or in this japanese study on correlation, a rise in autism after the withdrawal of the MMR jab (in fact it more than DOUBLED after people stopped taking the jab):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01425.x/full

but anyway, correlation is often meaningless, its causation thats the important one, and the largest clinical trials have more or less ruled it out...

I'm sure doctors don't really hate you they hate wakefield though...

 

From the article you linked;

AUTISM PREVALENCE in the United States has soared. In 1970, Treffert et. al. published the first known autism prevalence study in the United States, Epidemiology of Infantile Autism, with an autism prevalence rate
of less than 1 per 10,000. In 1987, Burd et. al. published a study, A prevalence study of pervasive developmental disorders in North Dakota, showing an autism rate of 3.3 per 10,000. In 2007, the Centers for Disease Control’s Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring Network released data showing that prevalence of autism had grown to 66 per 10,000 or 1 in 150, an increase of more than 6,000% from the 1970 study.

Sounds pretty scary, but wait, they forgot to mention this;

Hmmm. not so scary now, is it.

 

And this makes all of the statistical data in the article invalid? I'm sure as the broadening of the diagnostic criteria for autism was not an isolated event in this country. It still doesn't explain why on average we have more kids with autism, more kids die here and we also have a greater amount of shots to keep the kids "safe".

 

They hate my questions and that I don't do as they say (unless I'm sick, but I rarely go to the doctor anyways. My daughter does go), but I've met some less than qualified doctors (not because of the vaccine issue, but other unrelated things). I had one guy tell me that breastfeeding my two year old was like giving a cigarette to someone who was trying to quit and that only in 3rd world countries people breastfeed their kids past age of one. I know better than to be swayed by comments like that. I do find it scary that this guy is a pediatrician in one of the most popular practices in the area and people hear insane "advice" like that.

 

What do you mean, "more kids die here?" Die of what, exactly? America doesn't have the best infant mortality rate as far as developed countries, but we're doing a lot better than most of the world. And we have more shots because we have access to them, as opposed to places who are struggling to get enough kids vaccinated and thus you have a lot of kids still dying of measles, etc. It's also a matter of what types of diseases we're exposed to here. There's no big campaign to push for a yellow fever vaccine mandate in the US because it's only really necessary if you go to tropical countries.

If we do have more kids with autism, it's because A, the diagnostic criteria has broadened so much and B, honestly, in developing countries so much of the focus is on keeping kids alive past the age of 5 that not a lot of attention is paid to kids with intellectual handicaps. In a lot of cultures, it's considered shameful to have a mentally disabled child, and they're either killed, sent away to institutions, or just not talked about. It is getting better, but there's sadly such little focus on that in much of the world that it's hard to get an accurate picture.

All I'm saying is that rejecting vaccines is a privilege of those in developed countries, and I wish more people recognized that.

 

A lot of vaccines have been around for decades. I have never known anyone who was hurt by a vaccine. I have an Asperger's child who I firmly believe was born that way. Anyone who thinks a vaccine can just "give you autism" doesn't know anything about autism and should read up on it so they don't fear it.
A needle can't change the structure of your brain; make you smarter in some areas, but take away social skills.

BTW, doctors used to blame autism on "cold mothers", saying that we rejected our children.

 

Did you even click on the link? Developing countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, France, Switzerland, Finland? And I wouldn't call any of these "developing countries" or countries were little attention is paid to intellectual handicaps. Some of these countries are more developed than the United States, specially when it comes to both physical and mental care. I also disagree that we have more shots here because we have access to them. I'm sure all of these shots are available in every one of these countries and the reason for not making them part of their mandatory schedule is because they're not deem necessary. I grew up in Dominican Republic, the schedule for vaccines there is a lot more lax there than here, very few are "mandatory" and all are available. Autism is uncommon (not because kids are getting killed or institutionalized). I got varicella when I was 9-10, I stayed home from school for a week and ate ice cream. My brother got it and was 15, did the same. I think it's silly that they have a vaccine for this for kids, specially when it's only really dangerous as you grow older. I'd say get it as an adult if you never contracted chicken pox as a kid. One of the neighbor's girls got mumps, it wasn't a big deal. I remember hanging out with her while she was sick. It's not ignorance, but lack of fear and that it was pretty easy to deal with these things. Another neighbor's kid got measles, it wasn't a big deal. I didn't get measles or mumps, but I'm not sure if I was vaccinated against these or not. Now things like Polio I understand and will vaccinate my child against later on. Pertussis she's past the age when it's considered dangerous (18 months and younger) and considered what and who she was exposed to at that age, she was never really at risk. Chicken Pox if she wants to get it when she's older she can. Being itchy wasn't too bad, though the older you are the worse it is. Hep A and Hep B she can get when she's older if she wants.
Diphtheria and Tetanus are on my maybe list. Rubella only seems dangerous if you're pregnant and to unborn children, besides that it's just a mild infection. No flu shots will ever be taken. I've never had a shot and never had the flu (and I used to work at a doctor's office and be exposed to sick people during the flu season). I know people who routinely get shots every year and have gotten the flu more than once. Rotavirus seems unnecessary.

And yes in a developed country it's easier to choose not to vaccinate against certain things, but in most developing countries there is good healthcare, it simply cannot be afford by everyone. My impression definitely is that people are healthier in Santo Domingo than here, I don't think that has anything to do with vaccines, but overall diet/exercise/lifestyle, not being so fearful of getting sick does help.

I think saying that vaccines cause autism is silly, but also saying that some of the component in some vaccines are completely harmless is also silly. Like I said I think there are more side effects than that. I only know of one person who someone close to her was harmed after being vaccinated and I certainly do know that most of the people I know get shots and are fine, so I understand that negative reactions is a very small percentage, but they're still present.

 

And now I shall retire from this thread. I hope the OP has found some clarification, instead of more confusion and realize that whatever she decides is what's best for he rand child and nothing that any of us can answer.

 

I love that!!

Just like me getting hit by a car, there's a small percentage- well most likely if ya think about the percentage would be higher , but anyways if I go outside there is a chance I could get hit be a car.

The risk is still present......

 

I'd rather wait until my kid is older before vaccinating. I feel like at such a young age (the first jabs are around 2 months old) that it isn't going to do any good to their immune system which is already weak and needs time to strengthen and develop. Then there's the fact you need to keep topping them up too, so they aren't actually making you immune, you'll never be immune regardless or whether you are vaccinated or not. I understand herd immunity too which is why I think its fair that those who would rather not vaccinate should have the choice to do so without being bashed for it, I mean I've read about schools that won't let you in if you arent vaccinated but what's the problem? If everyone else is vaccinated then surely nothing could spread? Vaccinating has become too much of a norm for too many people to not do it and kill the herd immunity.

In undeveloped countries there are a lot of reasons that these diseases are still around, and where vaccination plays a part (or lack of) so does hygiene, quality of food, drinking water, just the general standard of living. Things like that will also play a factor in how many children or adults become ill with diseases, a lot of poorer countries don't have clean safe water or food, they don't have rubbish disposal teams that come and collect waste every week, they don't have working showers or soap or things in order to keep clean as we would, no antibacterial handwash etc, and I can't imagine that the sewage and plumbing systems are very safe, if they have them at all.

I understand its a privilege, but its also not mandatory.

 

Imagine if a majority of parents thought the same way.
Remember what happened after the whole MMR debacle?


I agree with everything else you posted - just not this bit.

 

No I understand this. But its just a very sensitive subject and I know that around 99/100 parents will vaccinate their children because of how common and normal it is nowadays. In the future there will likely be a more efficient and safe way to overcome/immunise these diseases too, we are only going to be moving forwards with medicine and such, so much money and research is put in to it all. But like I said, its not just vaccination alone that are the reason the richer countries are seeing a decrease in disease, hygiene and standard of living play a major part too, with all the cleaning (both household and personal) products available so readily to us in supermarkets, it means we have access to things like antibacterial handwash, antibacterial washing up liquids and even wet wipes to clean down surfaces. I hope I make sense, I dont usually, sounds right in my head though lol!

 

I agree with you for the most part. It's just at present we need to use all the tools we have available. Vaccinations being one of them. I suppose we should not have a mass scare about something that is not proven - so that we do have the luxury of choice. I don't agree with the idea of: everybody else is doing it so I don't have to. It's a difficult one - especially when you have concerns for your child and the vaccines available. A decision I have not had to make. So I get it. I'm just being a little cold about it, I guess. No offense meant.

 

Are you sure it's 99/100 will do it?? I know a fair few ppl who refuse to b/c of all the bullshit scare that is around them. They have the same attitude of they don't need to b/c everyone has. I reckon that number is more 75/100 these days

And also you seem very trusting in that everyone else has them done.

Also these vacc's have been around for years now like we are talking 50+ yes...... have they overcome some diseases yet no. Which is why we still need to protect.

Have a read of this........ http://danamccaffery.com/medicine.pdf

I like this point

 

That isn't my idea though.
The reason I'm pretty sure that everyone else is doing it is because I've never personally met anyone else that hasn't been vaxxed or vaxxed their kids. I'm not saying I ask every soul I meet but in general when I get to know people and we talk about these kind of subjects I'm usually met with rolling eyes and scared looks as if I'm contaminated with every disease on earth because niether me nor my daughter are vaxxed. I was vaxxed as a baby, but as soon as I was old enough to say no then I never had anymore, and I put up a fight, not because of the needles as I have no problem with needles, I have no idea why I didn't want them when I was younger as its only since becoming pregnant with my daughter that I ever really researched them. I got persuaded into having a flu shot when I was pregnant and 2 days later I went into early labour at 32 weeks, not saying theres a connection there but it was bloody scary seeing as my pregnancy wasnt particularly high risk/complicated.

 

Ok, your making a correlation between two things that function completely differently and actually have opposite effects.

Vaccinations DO NOT kill viri or bacteria.
Disinfectants and antibiotics DO KILL viri and bacteria.

Vaccinations work by introducing just enough genetic and other information from the target virus or bacteria into the human body so it triggers an immune response. The immune system then develops specific anti-bodies that target that specific invader.
This is why some vaccinations make a person feel ill, it's your body responding to the new threat, but once created, those new anti-bodies will continue to be reproduced in the body, ever ready to fight if that particular virus or bacteria is encountered again.
Vaccinations make the human immune system STRONGER.

Antibiotics, disinfectants, hand sanitizer kill the viri or bacteria directly without utilizing the human immune system.
They work great at what they do..........too great.
What has been happening is that with antibiotics and such killing stuff it deprives the immune system of the opportunity to develop specific defenses and that is why we see things like super bacteria and treatment resistant infections.
Antibiotics and disinfectants make the immune system WEAKER.



So if you really want your baby to develop the strongest immune system possible;

1) get him vaccinated
2) don't always shelter him from colds and stuff. Babies need to get sick so they develop a strong immune system. That is why infants can seem to be sick ALL THE DAMN TIME, it's just their bodies getting ready for life's battles.
3) don't over-use hand sanitizers, only when situations call for it. I have seen kids/adults practically addicted and obsessed with the stuff.
4) don't allow your doctor to prescribe antibiotics for simple colds and stuff, only for bacterial infections such as ear infections and such or life and limb situations threatening of course.
I have many times refused a prescription for antibiotics for my kids and never get the cold and flu vaccines for them.

It really is important to understand just WHAT these different things do and HOW they do it.
Vaccinations and disinfectants are not doing the same thing even remotely.

 

You did say: I'd rather wait until my kid is older before vaccinating.
If that's ok - fair enough.
I think a baby's immune system isn't fully developed till they are 6 months old.
Even so, it is a little scarey to think of giving a tiny baby a vaccination.
It's just something I think should be done : / - I'm not a parent, though : /

I don't think I twisted your words.

"If everyone else is vaccinated then surely nothing could spread? Vaccinating has become too much of a norm for too many people to not do it and kill the herd immunity."

I might have made you sound selfish/self absorbed (or something), though

 

You've been lucky in that you have not contracted anything, that's all, luck.

Remember a while back when the anthrax attack scare was going around and people were also scared about smallpox?
You know why it's scary as hell don't you?
Anthrax doesn't allow the body time to develop a response other than an out of control effort to survive that results in your lungs filling with fluid.

Smallpox...very scary.
Because after the worldwide eradication of smallpox in the wild, smallpox vaccinations were no longer required. That's fine if the virus was actually completely gone from the planet, but it's not.

A smallpox epidemic would spread like wildfire throughout the population wiping out about 2/3 of the population under the age of about 45. A lot of people older than that would survive because they were vaccinated. I know I was.

There are really good reasons for vaccinations, more than not getting vaccinated