United States Federal Government Shut-Down

heh, we are pretty fucked, huh?

 

The land of the free... opportunities.

 

euros are entertaining aren't they?

 

... for the rich and powerful to take money from sick people.

 

LOL. Balme it on the evil kochs. Remember , class envy= revenue sharing.

 

It's easy to blame it all on something else right. But I never said only the rich and powerful are to blame. I do think they carry more weight in this case than some of the things you have tried to blame for it though Essentially the problem lies in the US itself, not outside of it.

 

kumbaya.

 

It's not class envy. I come from a middle class upbringing, which was available to me because of a combination of the hard work of my parents and the social programs that kept them afloat until my father was able to get his business up and running. I am still in the ever-shrinking middle class, attending University while my university educated wife works in a professional career.

What you see as class envy, I see as people raging against a system that unfairly stacks the deck against people born with certain statuses.

 

Now thats troll talk...oooo gets me so mad :daisy:

 

We are all colored by our experiences, certainly. That said, I think class envy does exist and do not believe the system is necessarily unfairly stacked. In my experience, too many people use that as an excuse and a crutch to explain away their own failings.

 

Some people might, but I think it is reckless to completely discount it. A child born to a poor single mother in Camden clearly does not have the same life chances as a child born to a wealthy married couple in Boston or New York. Even if the first child makes positive life choices, they will still be severely limited as to how likely they are to succeed, through no fault of their own. That is not to say that their mother may not have made some poor decisions (particularly having a child while she can't afford to take care of it), but I don't think that the actions of the parents should set their children up for a lifetime of hardship.

 

that's exactly what it is, a big scam to hand over mandated profits to the insurance industry.

Just curious, has anyone here tried to sign up? I have insurance so it doesn't really affect me. I was curious what the insurance premiums and deductibles are looking like under the healthcare exchange.

 

I cannot entirely agree with that and, on a certain level, find myself saying: so what? I think so many societies have forgotten the concept of the "long game". We can never entirely divorce a child from the actions of their parents and, frankly, I think the actions of parents after the child is born have more of an impact on that child's future than those actions of the parents prior to the child being born. If you're raised by fuck ups odds are you'll be a fuck up, plain and simple.

I was born to a lower middle class family and have improved upon my means and life style immensely. Was it hard? Yes, but not impossible. You have to want it.

 

I guess we differ there, because I think that all children should be given a chance to succeed and live a life free of poverty. The fact is that children who live in poverty are often malnourished, and malnourishment (especially in the first couple of years of life) has very real negative effects on development, which can affect brain development and cause health problems further down the road.

I don't even really care if everyone gets the same starting line, I just think that everyone should get a starting line that gives them a reasonable chance to live a life of dignity, free from poverty

 

Free from poverty I can get on board with, if we can nail down what poverty actually constitutes. Beyond that, I think that is where you and I really start to differ.

 

Again , kumbaya. I agree. Fathers need to take responsibility. oby has two kids. I don't expect him to raise my daughter , not the role of the gubmint. The "village" is not needed just one good parent.

 

We probably differ on the best way to alleviate that poverty as well, haha, but it is at least beneficial to agree on what the problem is before discussing the best solution.

The definition of poverty definitely differs drastically from person to person, to be sure. To be completely honest, I don't know exactly how I would define it. I guess you have two main differences - absolute and relative poverty. Absolute meaning that someone is deprived of access to minimum levels of food, clothing, and shelter (I would also add health care to that list, although some would argue that it does not belong there), and relative meaning that the person has adequate food, shelter, and clothing to survive but is unable to afford to take part in the community/society in other ways - paying for school supplies, school trips, etc.

But, this seems like a topic that deserves it's own thread, so I'll leave it at that and maybe start a thread about it in the future.

 

Politicians recognize that from great profits come large campaign contributions, and voters are most likely to vote for the candidate who will give them something rather than take something from them. Take care of both the rich and the poor, and let the middle class struggle harder or give into becoming a member of rich or the poor, but cared for class.

From what I've seen, although I'm unable to confirm the accuracy, the best case and worst case changes are as follows

Comparing the percentage change of monthly 'non-group market' vs 'Obamacare' cost:
BEST CASE EXAMPLES:
Adult Age 27 in Colorado
non-group market $275.00
Obamacare $192.35

Adult Age 50 in New York
non-group market $500.00
Obamacare $356.00

Family of Four in New York
non-group market $763.26
Obamacare $712.00



WORST CASE EXAMPLES
Adult Age 27 in Arkansas
non-group market $105.00
Obamacare $285.00

Adult Age 50 in North Dakota
non-group market $215.00
Obamacare $421.44

Family of Four in North Dakota
non-group market $634.81
Obamacare $835.33

Based on cost alone
Adult Age 27
non-group market monthly costs
lowest $87.40 in Kansas
highest $500.00 in New York

Obamacare monthly costs
lowest $122.00 in Minnesota
highest $366.00 in Vermont

Adult Age 50
non-group market monthly costs
lowest $198.00 in Kansas
highest $550.00 in New Jersey

Obamacare monthly costs
lowest $215.90 in Oregon
highest $621.96 in Wyoming

Family of Four
non-group market monthly costs
lowest $545.13 in District of Columbia
highest $1,186.00 in Wyoming

Obamacare monthly costs
lowest $614.00 in Maryland
highest $1,232.00 in Wyoming

 

Except you cannot use Obama care right away. I forget what the time frame is for it.

Let me reflect on three instances of insurance coverage.


I remember back when I had health insurance, I was a kid, I was in a serious accident/criminal action as a victim, and I was inpatient for a little while. They kept me claiming I needed all this help they could provide, and then >BAM!<, I was out of there. "Cured". According to them, of course. I wasn't, but the insurance ran out.

Another time a few years later and when a rusty barbed wire fence ripped my hand open, the first ER wouldn't touch it. No idea why. I went to a different hospital and they patched me up and gave me my tetanus shot. Insurance was supposed to cover that, but they wouldn't and I had met all the qualifiers for it- non-emergent medical had a $5,000 deductable; Emergent medical had zero deductable; and I had the policy for the minimum period for coverage- 6 months before using it (unless it's emergent). The incident was 7 months after I signed up for the insurance.

Most recently when I was the pedestrian in a pedestrian/auto accident. Nearly died. The injuries I sustained required they keep me for at least 72 hours for observation, but they didn't. After I was x-rayed and stitched up, I was in a wheelchair in the parking lot, freezing. Same hospital as the one in #2. I am now permanently disabled from that wreck. And I had insurance.

So trusting insurance is out. Using Obamacare is out since I'm looking at having to pay for a decade first (I think). Who knows, I could be wrong.

 

Individual is the first person to come up with any positive stories. I am curious how he derived his information re. Oregon. No sales. No logins. Absoloutely dead. The regime will not meet their goal. They will nationalize at their first opportunity. 2014. The game has commenced. Us v. Them.