Truce!!!

Some how humans managed to survive, at least, the last 100,000 years prior to the invention of any of the modern religions. I am also not aware of any modern technologies that were invented by a religion.

 

Look at america where Bush has the gun and the bible and we need no better reason to ban both from political society.

 

God Save Us From Religion!

 

amen

 

What is this?

 

Don't be a jerk, you knew what I meant. It has helped mankind in the sense that it has united many, many humans for a common cause.

 

Throughout history, religion has also helped the hopeless, and the oppressed and the persecuted to know goodness and sanity and wisdom and hope still exist, even when (or maybe, especially when) there appears to be no obvious presence of it in one's immediate reality.

For those who don't need any of those things, well, congratulations, I am happy for you and your perfect life. But it is an abstract form of cruelty to take that away from those who know they have nothing else.

Peace and Love

 

I thought you meant what you wrote.

There is also countless examples of religions doing the exact opposite. This is a list of recent and current, religiously based unrest and wars -http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm
As far as dogmatic oppression, can you name one major religion that treats men and women as equals?

 

Um...Yeal, I think this thread started off as a very good idea, although I myself do have a faith, I think that everyone should get along and accept each other regardless of differences, in fact sometimes believing differently allows you to look at things another way, so combined people could understand more. But like I was saying, this thread seems to have turned into a very large argument. I recognize that religion has not always been a good thing, in fact it often divides people, but most "organized" belief systems do, however I also think that any belief (depending on the person) can be used for bad. JAH bless and peace

 

unfortunately, that common cause is often the murder of the unbelievers.

correct me if i'm wrong, but religion is good because it's used as a security blanket to give oppressed people the patience not to do anything to improve their situations because it'll be better when they die?

I'll never accept your beliefs.
however, i do tolerate them, and think that religious tolerance is what made western civilization the dominating force that it is today (and what made eastern civilization the dominating force it was in the past). so, while i'll still think you're either naive or stupid for believing what you do, i'll never support a law that bans it.
It's like freedom of speech. I support your right to disagree with me, and i'll fight to the death to keep that right. I, however, choose to exercise my right to free speech to call you naive or stupid.
understand?

 

Yes, you are mistaken. Religion doesn't cause as many wars as you would love to think.

Religion is not used as a security blanket, it is more of a comfort and a beacon of hope. Being the Atheist that you are, you are almost forced to think biased things about religion, overcome your ego wall, then we'll speak.

 

Come near middle east, see what religion is causing there, and then say religions are not causing wars.

 

I never said religion didn't cause war. It has been a motive for war, but people cause war, not religion.

 

everyone is entitled to their beliefs, anyhitng someone believes in strong enough could cause a war, all it takes is a few zealots, on either side.

 

Fair enough

 

There have been lots of wars throughout human history, and religion hasn't been a significant factor in most of them. Think Mongol conquests, the conquests by Alexander and Rome, the U.S. Civil War, Spanish American War, the Crimean War,World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the War in Vietnam. Most of the wars we think of as religious involved other factors, as well. For example, are the conflicts in the Middle East all about religion, or do economics (oil), geopolitics, and territorial issues (e.g., Israel's occupation of former Palestinian lands; Arab nationalsim) play bigger a part? Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot killed lots of people, and it wasn't over religion, unless you regard Communism as a secular religion.

 

nay, your judgment and probably insight on history is either limited or distorted. religion was a major factor in many big conquests throughout the history, especially in middle east. religious roots and differences may be examined in many noticeable conflicts in ancient middle eastern history as to strain societies from each other, and some are outright due to religion, ie - the god-given mission to eradicate 'evil' gods from face of the earth to persians by zoroastrianism leading them to conquer all of the ancient middle east until greece for example.

religion from rome and on played a major factor in european and world conflicts, this, no historian denies. starting from crusades on, and the later due to sect differences within christianity and the zealous conquest of americas starting from religious standpoint by spanish and portugese.

what you are talking about only encompasses latter part of the history, from french revolution and on, after the point where religion was ousted due to age of reason and nationalism or ideology started to take a greater part in causes of conflict.

 

USUALLY, war comes from a lang grab,an invasion for stronger power, or in our case, an oil grab. Very rarely does war stem off of religion. It's actually a huge coincidence that I'm studying the Spanish and English land grab now in Anerican History, and they didn't go to war because of religion. They went to war because as the Spanish sent ships from Spain to New Spain, English pirates would intercept them and rob them. This went on and on until Spain decided to go to war. And durng the midst of the war Spain decided to attempt to convert The Brits back to Catholicism.

If you want to try to point the finger at us an say that we cause war, remember that when you point the finger, there's three fingers pointing back at you.



And while I'm posting, I have to say that it's hilarious how relaxxx just drops out of the argument after he gets ripped apart by me and that other dude.

 

So, by this point, I guess the thread title has become self-parody.

 

I wonder if we aren't actually talking about entirely different things/experiences. What do you think religion is?

This is a very real question, please answer as deeply and honestly as you are capable.

Peace and Love