Topless Women

Obviously some of you haven't worked in Nursing homes cleaning 90 year old womens' vaginas, or hauling a nude obese men off beds with machines, picking up faeces, changing urine soaked sheets, dressing and undressing people, looking after infected bedsores....

If you even have a notion of ugly in such a place, you wouldn't last 5 seconds.

 

uhm...well they don't...isn't that what this thread is about is 'why women can't go topless'...so I would assume 60 year-old women aren't an exception...

 

some of the comments are so weird. I grew up out in the country almost commune style we had our own houses on the same land. i grew up where women were allowed to work in the garden with no shirt on and that was fine in the middle of august. its really hot here in the summer. i see no reason why a woman can't take her shirt off if she is outside and its hot. men don't leave their shirts on when they work in a feild why should i and i won't i am not damaged from seeing the breasts of women even 60 year old women. i am perfectly fine. it is compeletly natural. i'm not sure if its because i was raised in a family of american indian women and we just feel natural and traditional to work topless or what, but that is the way it is.
on the breastfeeding note. who cares if someone is breasfeeding in public. i remember one time with my first child when i was shamed, i was very young and we had moved to the city and i was at a ball game and a few people looked at me like i was crazy bf my daughter on the bleechers. so, i covered her with a blanket and it was hot out, my aunt took the blanket off and said not to be ashamed and that those people were in fact sexual freaks to look at someone who was bf. she proceeded to drop the baby blanket over the head of one man in particular who kept looking in disgust and told him she really couldn't stomach idiot in public. that was a wonderful lesson for me as a young mother, who was being treated like i was the one doing something wrong. i also noticed only very few people ever gave a crap and it was usually a man who was most likely disgusted because something he sees as sexual is being polluted with its natural use irony what a great word.

 

The only people who feel breasts and penis/buttocks/vaginas are all sexual are those people who have dirty minds. Most mature educated respectable people see the difference between breasts and buttocks/penis/vagina. Breasts are not sexual organs, they are not necessary for sex, penis/vagina/buttocks etc are sexual organs and generally are used for sex. Men and women's breasts are different but that doesnt justify men being able to go topless and women cant, men and women are physically different in other ways and you dont see women covering up any other parts that are different from men.

I am a nudist but I see the whole topfreedom movement and the nudist perspective as two different things. Getting people to accept topfreedom is more likely to happen because it is more normal and accepted in more places, nudity is still mostly a taboo thing and while I hope someday that people can get over their prejudices against people going nude, its not something I see happening any time soon. Best thing to do right now is just take things one step at a time and allow women the freedom to exercise their right to go topfree. Once that happens people can discuss the whole nudity thing. Thats a whole different animal though.

How do you define ugly? We only beleive certain people and things are ugly because we were indoctrinated to beleive so since birth by other adults around us. People areint naturally ugly, society simply decided what is ugly and what isnt.

Actually the law does and the law for the most part doesnt deem toplessness unacceptable unless its being done in a lewd or sexual manner.

I simply beleive women as human beings have a natural born right to be able to go topless. I dont think they should be denied this by self absorbed people who want to impose their own prejudices on them.

Thats why we beleive that anywhere a man can go topless a woman should have that same priviledge and the same goes for places where men cant go topless, the same should apply for women. Its only fair. Although I do think there should be more places where men can be topless.

If women cant go topless out in public then how do you know that our youth seeing them topless is going to cause such widespread damage if you havent even had the chance to see weither this would really happen or not. Im sure it might stir up some commotion at first from the conservatives and bible thumpers out there but after a few weeks the tension would die down and people would just learn to accept it and move on.

Yeah we dont want to get to the point where we eliminate anyone we feel is inferior or not useful to society, thats one road we dont want to go down, that is something that is truly ugly and im sure most people would agree with that.

Women have the right to go topless just not the freedom to exercise that right. 60 year old women have the same right to go topless just as much as any 20 or 30 year old woman does.

 

True, but you have people like me who are super-horny. If you had chicks walking (running!) around totally naked, tits boucing, their pussies totally exposed... jeesus, I'd be walking around with a constant boner and a need for either sex and/or masturbation hourly.

 

same in Ontario.


Though I doubt I'd ever take advantage of it haha.

 

i'll address the stuff i said.

The butt is not a sexual organ. By that logic, shouldnt i be able to go ass free? Thongs for all. Again, this is kinda pointless to say to a nudist, but you know what i'm saying.

I don't care if homosexuals stimulate the butt duriing sex..that does not make it a sex organ. And if that does, then we can easily say that includes the breasts since they are stimulated during sex.

fair enough

And society dictates laws. Um, there are only 4 states in the Union that allow toplessness(Hawaii, new york, texas(!) and one other i believe). I dont even think its all inclusive in those states. There are also certain cities(san francisco/berkely?) i think. For the most part, toplessness is NOT accepted by law.

I don't and i dont think we should be imposed this belief by self absorbed people who want to impose their own prejudices on us.

i already gave my justification for why its not. So i wont waste either of our times rehashing it.

 

i got a question....is there a difference between dressing 'slutty'(as many women here call it) and going topless? I guess what i'm asking is...how could one 'dress slutty,' but not be considered slutty when they wear nothing? It seems rather hypocritical.

 

Yes there is a difference. Most women who dress slutty do so to attract attention, whereas those who go topless do so for comfort and dont intend to attract attention.

Thats because they do these things for two different seperate reasons. Women who dress slutty generally like to titilate men and they usually want them see them but not see too much of them so there is always some surprise and they usually want the men for sexual purposes. The women who go topless just want to be comfortable and shed their shirts like men can and most of them dont care if anybody sees them or not because they are not out there to titilate anyone or desire to have sex with anyone, since everything is hanging out there then theres no surprise for anyone either.

 

so breasts magically become sexual when they're in a black push up bra and a see-through white blouse? Interesting.

 

Of course the butt isnt a sexual organ, but unless you wearing a thong down there its really hard to cover the other part and not cover the buttocks. So if you wanted to go ass free youd pretty much have to go bottom free too and that would mean exposing the sexual organs as well. So even though the buttocks areint sexual when it comes to wear stuff down there the buttocks and penis/vagina go hand in hand.

I guess you could say the buttocks is technically a sex organ because people can stick things in there like you can with a vagina during sex. Anyways the main reason for covering it up is its in the same region as the penis/vagina and its hard to cover up one without covering the other as well.

Those four states are simply the only ones that have a law stating specifically that toplessness for women is legal. Toplessness in general is accepted by law but many people still dont allow it in alot of places and there isnt alot of legal stuff to back it up so most people think its illegal when its not.

Women dont want to impose anything on anybody they just want to have a choice to wear a top or not.

 

Not necessarily but most people who wear those kinds of things behave in a way that makes it sexual. Nothing women wear or dont wear makes breasts sexual on its own, its what you do while youre wearing or not wearing certain things that decides that.

 

The string bikini/thong and other nifty underwears get around that problem nicely.

I really doubt that women could walk around this country topless and not run into legal troubles.

ugh, its difficult to discuss this with a nudist...but by extension shouldn't i have the choice of not wearing a bottom if i want to?

I dont see why covering the genitals makes anymore logical sense than covering the belly button for instance. we *make* these decisions as a society on what is or is not acceptable. When society says it is not acceptable and you do it anyways, you are forcing your belief on other people. Just like i would be forcing my beliefs on others if i choose to walk around naked.

 

I disagree. Show a bunch of guys a picture of a topless girl and see if they get turned on by her. Chances are they will. People see breasts as sexual.

Anyways, we're not going to convince each other of anything...

 

If it were legal, well certainly, I would go topless on a hot summer's day and would be supportive of any women of any age, weight, whatever if they chose to do the same. Doesn't seem fair that men can get away with it but women can't.

 

Arguing about what organs and appendages are sexual is crazy. In this society, we have a long-standing history of sexualising everything from ankles to shoulders and even the nape of people's necks. For a very long time, it wasn't proper for a woman to show even the tiniest bit of skin anywhere between her collar and the tips of her toes. Everything, hands and all, were to be covered if out in public....BUT not the same for men.

And in a society where the mood and ideas are constantly shifting, we could very well be heading for a time of equality and freedom enough allowing men and women of all shapes, sizes, and varying degrees of attractiveness to walk around clothed in whatever way they deem appropriate to weather and event conditions.

Breasts are only sexual because our society deems it so. Breasts are not sexual to me. Nor to many people I know. Asses, to me, are sexual. And to others that I know. But just because I see them as sexual does not deem it so for everyone else. Some people are exclusively attracted to feet, or hands, or belly buttons. We're all wired differently, and why should the majority of blandly wired people tell the rest of us what is and is not sexual as a whole?

Breasts, as has been said before, are not sexual in most societies. Why? Because they are seen for their function. They nourish the smallest generation. And feeding your child directly from the source should not be a crime punishable by making you feed said child in a BATHROOM STALL! Why should the child be punished in such a way. If every woman in this country breastfed and the laws stated she had to do so in public restrooms, we'd have an entire generation of children growing up thinking that you eat your dinner next to a toilet. Now how is that for low-class? Ridiculous, right?

And the entire notion of something being low-class is entirely a condition learned within this society.

The point of making toplessness legal is not to fit in to society but rather to CHANGE society. Such as what happened when women began cutting their hair short, wearing shorter dresses, exposing their arms and legs.

The movement to toplessness is, as I see it, a way to DESEXUALISE a lot of our society. We're a bunch of perverts. Breasts are used to sell everything from beers to cars to marketing television shows, but it's not a common thing for them to be used as nature saw fit. This movement, if taken as far as it could go, would help to reverse the ill effects of a pervert-minded society and a media bent on manipulating and using that fact to its greatest advantage.

FREE THE BREASTS!

 

*applause, applause, applause* You go Holly!

 

So because we WERE once wrong..we are still wrong?

yikes, nudist america...scary thought.

what you're arguing sounds undemocratic. Why should the overwhelming majority have it their way? Well they are the overwhelming majority...

That's great that other cultures are very open about their breasts. They can run their culture as they see fit.

I dont see how this improves society at all.

what exactly are the ill effects of our 'pervert minded society'? I think its the 'hot' women that are used to sell products....not the breasts. I dont see that going away. As some have said here...realistically, only a small % of women are going to go topfree anyways. You'd need a giant % to change society...

 

I never said we were wrong. I said that we have a history of sexualising everything, and then later, those thoughts change. We stop sexualising. This movement for topless women is just the next wave of desexualising a body part, as what happened with shorter skirts and exposed arms.

yikes, nudist america...scary thought.

But on the same token, why should the minority be opressed when they want nothing more than physical comfort? If it's not impeding on someone else's standard of living (their physical realm), why should they be stopped from being comfortable?

And this is just the next wave of thinking for THIS culture. The times just might be a'changin'.

It doesn't IMPROVE society. It CHANGES society, the thoughts and accepted ways of being. That's what's wanted here. Just a change. We're not saying we're more right than you or that any certain way is wrong. No one is arguing that toplessness be made mandatory. We just would like the freedom to dress however we feel most comfortable depending on the weather and such.

The ill effects of a perverted-minded society? Let's see...We have the criminalisation of women and men exploring their sexuality in different ways and also trying to have a good (AND COMPLETELY NONRELATED) impact on the next generation (such as teachers, most female, fired from their positions for posing nude in magazines). We have the general mindset about sexuality as is seen in our nation right now. Where sex is considered an adult thing, yet is used to market clothing and other products to children as young as 7 or 8. There's also the astounding number of rape, sexual molestation, incest, and other sexual crimes committed in this country, as compared to other societies. I could go on.

As a society, we're influenced by the media we create. And all this movement is trying to do is lessen the emphasis on breasts as sexual objects to create a more peaceful environment in which people can dress as they see comfortable and to lessen the stigma against breastfeeding mothers as well.

Again, let me emphasize that I'm not saying any one way of thinking is wrong. There is no RIGHT side to this argument, which makes it difficult to come to any sort of head. The only thing I'm trying to get across is that as a society, we have a history of changing our perceptions fairly regularly. And maybe this movement is just a new change trying to come to a head.

And that some of the more critical viewpoints against breasts and breastfeeding in public might just be a bit...rude...in reference to how they (if implemented) are not fair or right to impose on someone else's life.

 

We'll see if it gathers anywhere near as much steam. I think, somehow, most people see a difference between ANKLES and breasts. But thats just me.

I personally think that is making a mockery of the word oppressed.

I think the whole wave is gonna pass this 'surfboard' by. There is no media attention of this.

I think we can both agree that not all change is good.

Look, overwhelming people find public nudity discomforting. Why should the overwhelming majority have to cater to the small minority? This isnt a basic inalienable right that is uncompromisble like female voting. This is a choice that we as societies make. We've decided that public nudity is unacceptable. Why do people try and force change on other people? And please dont give me the whole 'slavery, female voting, blah blah thing." This is hardly the same.

Our crime in general is higher than other nations. Surely you arent going to blame this on women not being able to go topless and beer commercials with buxom babes, are you?

and what exploration of sexuality is criminalized? And you must be kidding about the teachers posing naked in a magazine. Teachers are supposed to be good role models..is that really a signal we should be sending our children?

I think the whole topfree is merely exploiting the breastfeeding thing to try and gain acceptance.

The majority of US states have enacted laws proteecting the rights of breastfeeding mothers...but yes, not all.

I see toplessness and breastfeeding as two different things.

We impose on peoples' lives all the time. But you're right, we're not gonna settle this.