Topic: Anti-Christians.

NARTH as I said is one side [of the conservatives]. It is the belief of other researchers that in fact homosexuality is “Something that one is; an unchosen orientation” and to add to that, the cause, researched by health professionals and sexuality researchers, is “Genetically predetermined plus some unknown environmental factor in early childhood which "turns on" the gene or genes”





Now that is two professionals offering an opinion.





Conversely…on the mater of it not being choice I offered a further study.

NARTH being conservative offers only one account of the study homosexuality. I would not ask the members of this forum to go blindly and not listen to the side of the opposition. In order to be objective I would urge anyone who does know something on the matter of homosexuality to come forward and state what they know. So bandit, I was asking for an objective opposition to the fact. It would be ignorant of me to offer one side without the other or at least asking for the other.



And I am no conservative. They are not “my” researchers by any stretch of imagination. How could they be when I believe that homosexuality is predetermined and genetic and not a faultering of the mind? Look to what I am saying.





I did not go back on anything. Why? Because I clearly stated “THIS IS ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM” not to mention I also said “STUDIES BY NARTH HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION IN A THREAD ENTITLES THE THREE MYTHS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY”. The belief of NARTH is not my reasoning or belief at all.

But so as not to leave out my ACTUAL reasoning in all of this what I was doing was this.You said that homosexuality was choice. Another individual said it was not. I offered one side of the spectrum that says what you had said was not completely wrong or ignorant at all.



I do not share the belief that in fact homosexuality is choice. Nor do many researchers of the matter. I may not agree with that opinion that you have, but that does not mean I will not take into account research that might prove my beliefs wrong.



I admit though…disprove was too harsh and too biased a word and apologise for it. And in its stead I would like to say opposing research as it seems more fitting under the circumstances.


and yes. i think most will agree..god does not hate. he disapproves of sin but not the sinner as he gave us free will and knows its consequences.




as to the matter of gay marriage...of course they have a right to marriage outside of the church as within the church the sanctity of marriage is really between a man and a woman. i don't agree with not allowing homosexuals to marry at all. thats unfair. but within a chirch the belief structure of the church must be respected. just as the church should respect the right of marriage outside the church.

 

Well actually to get to heaven you need to ask Christ into you life an you will be born again. You will then be covered by His shed blood which will take away your sins. Then you try to live a life which would honor God. But actually, I think most people would rather give God the finger. After the first 10,000 years in hell, they might realize the mistake they made, but it will be to late. Oh well, time to start the next 10,000 years of giving God the finger. Boy you sure showed Him. How shall they neglect so great a salvation?

 

It's sad to see people who could actually find out the truth about the bible, just sit here and base there beliefs on nothing. You have to wonder how many people will burn in hell because they were to lazy to do their homework. Remember, the fires of hell were prepared for the Devil, and those who think like he does.

 

Like me.




Since I'm Satanist and all. Well, used to be. I still am at heart, but I can't take such pretentious snobs. They're as bad as Christians sometimes.


So I guess I'd sum it up to say I'm Hedonist, which is based off Satanism, but isn't full of such dickheads.

 

are satanists extremest compared to hedonists or something?



i don't know much about satanism to be honest. i tried looking for books on it but only found things like wikan stuff and im not sure if that is part of satanism[if thats the right term]

 

If you will excuse me; could not get through all the venom. Most appear directed at those trying to calm you zealots (of all sides) down like Dan.
The more obnoxious you become, the more you disprove your views. As for me I was raised Southern Baptist in Okla. As a young child questions arose that my elders could not answer to my Heart. "Why are there no black people in church?" "Well blacks are not completely human so they go to their osn churces. "If God created such a wonderfull world out of love,how could he distroy whole cities, or ask a father to kill his own son?" No answer to that. So I began to look within to understand. I am not a Christian, but I admire Jesus,
Mother Theresa, the Buddha, Jacob Boehm equally. Heresy?, maybe; but I do not have hatred in the guise of Love for those of any religion or philosphy; or for none. All the 'proves' profided will not change anyone's mind. Only the heart can know it's own truths. Perhaps looking inward would have more affect then attacking others? JnanaJohnCox.

 

blacks are not completely human?



poeple say that?




i agree with your statement on truths being those that answer to your heart. truth is within the self. belief is personal and can only come from within and people trying to disprove you serves no purpose.


i can say your words were better then mine ever were. that's assuming i have picked you up right.

 

Sounds like you got it right. Words are only important if they aide communiciation. Many ways to do that; by example, by restraining anger, by looking for the best in ourselves and others for example. Thanks for being open.
jnanajohn

 

Genises: Forgot! that was in the 50's and into the 60's. Hopefully that does not exist now. Altough I suspect some do feel that way still, but inside.There the damage is contained in their being. Unless it spills out, causing more damage. My mother refused to admit that we had any Indian blood. But could not explain how I had 2 families of cousins that were Indian. She could never say it; but after her death among the family papers was a picture of her Indian Grandmother's marriage to a white man. I feel that was the only way she could 'fess up. jj

 

i see what you mean.my late grandfather was a strongly catholic man which is i think partially the reason i was baptised catholic, but he himself denied a member of his family existed because he had comitted suicide. i think it lies mainly with older generations. but i can only say that for people over here in ireland as many of our youth are a lot more open to things our grandparents are not. even our parents have come quite a way.


but im glad that was said in the 50's. i got a bit of a shock. a bit ognorant and childish as it may sound, i still find it strange to hear people talk abou tother races like that. i suppose i just don't get it. i always think they mucst be joking.:&

 

'In vengeance to a god no-one can reach.' 'God gave up this world, its people, long ago.' -Genesis, "Visions Of Angels"

That's exactly how I feel about Christianity. They really need to take a way more existential look at God. Everything that is mentioned in the Bible could only be correct if God & Jesus are aliens of a supernatural Humanoid Race from another Galaxy. How could Jesus cure Earthly ailments like blindness, paralysis, deafness, fatal diseases, and most importantly raise both himself and Lazarus from the dead? It's simple. He's Superman!!!!! He is from the Planet Krypton!!!!! He has the ability to do that because of advanced Evolution.

Everybody who thinks that God is above listening to what you say, think, do, want, etc. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!! God gave up on us 2000 years ago after we killed Jesus. It's obvious that God wanted to make us into a peaceful race, but look at the thanks we give him for creation...

WE KILLED HIS SON!!!!!! WHAT KIND OF THANKS IS THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

God did not give up on us.
When Adam and Eve fell into sin in the garden, God was already drumming up a second chance for us...a second opportunity....which was to offer Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins, a free gift that we can either accept or not.

Humanity was meant to live a pure existence, but because of God's love he also wanted to let us choose Him for ourselves, free will...to keep it genuine. Otherwise we'd be like puppets on strings, or programmed robots.

 

There was no God to begin with! We are all just a complex collection of stardust that fell into the ocean. Stars, Planets, Humans, animals, plants, bacteria, etc. are all just complex connections of molecules that make up cells. There's a connection between everything on an atomic, a molecular, and cellular level. The notion of something so extraordinary like a 'God' who can live forever is just so stupid.

Religion is control & The Catholic Church is the most guilty. They can control men and women by making them celibate. Once you control sexuality, you control the person. Sex is just a chemical reaction to errogenous stimulation from another source. It is not a sin. Sin doesn't exist. We do what we want, because our brains allow us to. Anybody who buys into the religious and political bullshit, allows themselves to be taken in, because their Freewill is weak, and they're afraid to think for themselves.

Freewill is natural, but the control of religion puts limits on our basic human freedoms. They preach about loving one another, but if your brother or sister or friend is gay, fuck 'em. Even though not spoken in those words exactly, that's what they imply.

I say Smoke Weed, Drop Acid, Have Sex, Masturbate, Experiment, Think For Yourself. Your religion is deceiving you. They only want your money. Think about it. The Vatican has about the equivalent of almost $80 billion, yet they say that money is not important. HYPOCRICY!!!!!! EXPOSE YOUR RELIGION'S HYPOCRICIES!!!!!! GET OUT OF RELIGION! IT'S NOT TOO LATE!!!!

 

I may be one of those "bashers" you refer to.

If I lived in a "Muslim nation" where my child would be singled out for not saying a pledge, "one nation under Alla", I'd be acused ofbeing an Islam basher.

I have friends of all religions. The only ones who feel the need to "convert me" and insult my belief, with their belief that I'm going to hell for my beliefs are the christians.

The ever growing fundimentist christian cult in america is growing more and more into a mob rule. And the more it pushes it's agendas on Americans, the more you will see many of us feeling the need to PUSH BACK.

Even just the little things that I just use to accept as cultural are begining to piss me off. Such as, in my county, if I want to pick up some beer on the way to go fishing on sunday morning, I have to wait till noon to buy it.
Frankly, all three Judean based religions, are self righteous and have a mob rule mentality, but I'm more concerned with Christianity because I'm living in a so called "christian nation" where they are attempting to create a power base to force their general concensus morality upon the rest of us. And that worries the hell out of me (pardon the pun).
If christians would just mind their own damn business, and simply lived the christian life for themselves, setting a good example of what Christian means, without becoming this foul mob, and without feeling the need to insult everyone elses beliefs, maybe, just maybe some of us "bashers" would lay off.

 

wow your first papragraph is insulting! You and me and so much more than an accident. If we were an accident, we would not have such an awesome thing such as love.
i am not catholic, and from what i've heard, i can agree that Catholics are very controlling. But don't get Catholocism mixed up with Christianity.
Sexual sin IS real, when we hurt ourselves or someone else.
About disregarding all people that are gay, a real Christian would NOT do that.
Christians hate the SIN, not the sinner. If they are THAT weak to just brush people aside becasue of thier sins and weaknesses, then they should not call themselves Christians becasue to be a Christian is to be like Christ, merciful, forgiving, and encouraging in the truth.
Even though "christianity" is considered a "religion", most Christians are against religion and are more about relationships and unconditional love.

 

They boycotted the local record/book shop until they gave in and got rid of three shelves of philosophy and classic literature (Mark Twain is gone) in favor of three shelves of 'Christian' literature. They raided all the video stores without a warrant or even a law to remove 'objectionable' material under the name 'The Christian Coalition'. They push Bible verse in the public schools and ostracise any children who don't fall in step. They preach from the pulpit that one must vote for a certain person lest they be a sinner. They squeeze funding for institutions unless they too fall in step. They hold political rallies with Bible Choirs. They hold protests at the theatre to keep certain movies out. They will level a 300 year old tree to build a Country Club Church and at the same time tout the worth of Gods world. They pollute and destroy the earth with giant machines but it's ok because they also put a sticker of cross on the back. They tell local buisiness owners that they will have to attend Church or their buisiness will go under, thus forcing sublimation just for someone to survive. The list is long and goes on because they claim that nothing they do is wrong because they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

I cannot believe that a benevolent God would want their children behaving this way. I see a great divide between what I call the 'good' Christians, the ones humbly serving God in feeding the hungry (been there and thank you), building houses for the disenfranchised, working with drug addicts in the street, etc... and those who only see it as a route to power. In the backwash, some of the 'good' Christians have gotten caught up in the monstrosity. But, do they stand up in the face of it? Many don't because they too will be labled 'Anti-Christian' if they do. I've watched it happen and it was devastating to have their Church turn their back on them. Traumatizing even. I'm not a scholar on the Bible so I don't really know, but isn't there something in there about ol' Scratch showing up and claiming to be God?

 

there is alot of wisdom in your post, and most Christians that are truly following Christ would agree. Pushy, "holier than thou" "christians" are making a really bad name for us because of all thier wrongful actions. on behalf of them i want to aplogize.

Recently my band has been turned away by a local coffe shop because they want to prevent "the radicals" from coming in to thier establishment and being too "in your face" with thier "religion". So i have to pay the price for thier mistakes. I totally understand what you mean. It's too bad Christians are not doing what God has called us to do. But we are still human and weak in many areas just like anyone else.

 

That is false.

The Western part of the Empire had fallen by that time, only the Byzantine part remained, there was not much left to, "hold togethar" and that is not why Christianity became the official religion.

This is false as well, and I challenge you to back up the, "300 Bishops" walking out of the council, and the fact that Nicea was politically motivated.

 

Catholicism is a form of Christianity, actually, the first type.

We are not contolling, if you don't like somthing then don't be Catholic! I diagree with the church on certain social teachings, but that does not mean I don't beleive in the theology they teach.