thoughts on communism

You can't tell me why I'm disagreeing, who the hell do you think you are, God?
This is the way I look at it! Since the beginning of man, there has alway been some sort of bartaring or trade system, it makes perfect sense, he has some food, I have some some clothes, lets trade! I would even say that its part of our evolution, its natural and supposed to be, it is a very fare system!
Money just makes it easier to place a value on things.

actually to answer your question i think we are all a part of god.
you speak of evolution but you think we're going to stick with money forever? don't you think that a system of trade will take on new forms? See I'm trying to think of alternitives that are ahead of our time, rather than constantly looking back to trade and barter. Now we have enough that we can all live without having to think, well what am I getting in return?

 

you shouldn't have written that at the bottom.
And quit getting so upset over shit, good god.
All your "how the hell" and exclamation points; I haven't fully explained my idea, and I know it sounds a little whack but gimme a little time, it's a lot to type. Remember, I'm not against you or anything I'm just presenting an idea, the way you're shooting it down sounds like desperate denial from over here.
How do work places start now?
People build the place, right?
So, what does it take to make a building? Let's just take wood for example. After it had been cut down, by whoever chooses to, you could do it or a machine and if you don't think we can build them you must not have creative thought at all, nor a scope of future human progress.
anyway, there would be a collective wood taking place, and you and your pals, or people who offered to help, go and build the place. is it that hard? youre talking about responsability, well so am i; money makes people too concerned with themselves and not concernend enough about pushing society's progress. So, what if you can't find anyone to help you build the building? Tough shit, just like if you have no money today, but this gives you a lot better chances.
Okay I have to go, but for now let me leave it like this:
Money is a fraction of all you want. No money and collective market is like everything you want, it's not a little share like money, it's everything! Sorry if that doesn't sound clear.
Peace.
ps, this is a shoddy quoting job because i dont really know how, maybe you can explain it instead of just bitching to me about it.

 

I agree with you that it's your responsability and I have my money matters handled and I know it is a useful tool; what I'm thinking is, if the earth became one nation, hypotheticly, dont jump on my ass for that yet, we would all have one type of currency, then i figured, not only does any sort of monetary system create slackers who are poor and take our money via welfare, but also, crime is created by those who cheat the system; burglary, armed robbery, (the list goes on) all a consequence of utilizing a money market.

 

hey gringo, u nono what u talken about. u better read al giordano. chop-chop: http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2005/7/22/151714/063

 

It's not going to get invented unless we talk about it.

Honestly I think this would be a twisted direction for humanity and would not eat one; and it is because I see the negative effects of our culture on us as a people; I really think we are limited, almost as if caged, and I can see a much more free world which I am currenty describing, and it would be better for all of us, even you. Maybe I analyze too much, or not enough you might say. Well whenever I see a problem I can easily trace the cause and might even have a solution for it.
Let's take AIDS for example. You cannot guarentee to find a cure, but you can speed up the process of finding one by allowing the doctors and scientists to have unlimited funds to resources and scientific mumbo-jumbo. I think the smartest people would likely group together and experiment and maybe get closer to the cure. Money, like nations, divides and slows, rather than unites and strengthens. NASA: in all these years what has happened? We don't even have a space station on the moon; I would have expected that within 40 years of getting there. It is a satellite after all. Because it takes technology. Technology that costs money. If the technology didn't cost money, it could be designed at will and would speed progress for sure.
PS that was really just a diversion argurment, imo

I think I answered the Mars question. I'm not going anywhere, if anything people can take their nanny government and currency mouse maze and have it run their lives on Mars themselves. Not that I can't deal with it for now here.

Thinking is the beginning to everything.

And I do have experience, average joe experience, I work at blockbuster video up my street and everyday i see archetypes of society. theres the mom with 4 kids who run around "mom buy me this! buy me this!" people come in who don't want to give us their credit card numbers for fear of identity theft, oh there's another money byproduct.
From being in a pretty even point in things I have a good view of what's going on from outside the box.
Or at least I think so.

PS
thanks for teaching me to quote, Gilligan.

 

Just a thought:

In this system, you have a choice not to work for the moochers.
Here the Feds make you pay their bills.

 

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106687

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95138

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102131&page=1&pp=10

 

you cannot live "beyond" your means; whatever you are living at is your means, your means are in the present, it's whatever you have.
People live beyond their means? Then that is their means.

quote high

 

Inequality?
Jessica Simpson has millions of dollars.
So does Ashlee.
What do you do for a living, and how much do you make?
(rhetorical, just think to yourself)
Is that fair?

and without, money, it would be like infinite money

 

You fool. A few posts ago you were sticking up for your fair money system, and I show you some bogusness within it and "who cares!"
I'm not jealous of what she has, I think all people deserve what she has and more, or at least, the option to have what she does.

Are you sure people won't want to "push forward" and advance just for the hell of it? You know, to better the human race and all, to see how much great technology we can come up with? Oh I guess that's a kooky idea, not being concerned with your personal reward (when here your reward is everything, in today's time your reward is a tiny fraction of everything called a paycheck)
Nothing will get gone? I think you mean done, and would you really just sit on your ass all day doing nothing? If so, then you are a lazy moron. Yeah I'd have a few kickback days a week, but I'd be out doing everything I couldn't do while sitting in a college class or spending 8 hours at a fucking video store (which wouldn't even exist in the place I'm describing since art like everything else is free and can be downloaded.) Unproductiveness? Take a look at the ghetto, which you probably cirticize, look at those lazy bums on welfare. There's your unproductiveness. It still exists here, only in the place I'm talking about there's less motivation to be unproductive, since there's more motivation to live as you choose, bringing happiness and putting yourself to your natural talent so you can make something unique for society and help keep it going. Apply this to yourself, what do you like to do and what are your talents? Don't you want to show the world how good you are at what you're good at? Or would you rather work some cubicle job where you're simply a drone. Okay then who works cubicle jobs? Likely, it is not even necessary, maybe that was a bad example, it really depends on what company it is and what not.

Again you ask questions you should ask yourself. The responsability is yours. There is no "higher authority" to decide what you get. You get what's available to you, and now that we have world wide communication and transport, everything can be available to you. I know it would take a lot to build 6 billion lexuses, but think about it, does everyone really want one? I think if anything people would drive cars less because you have so much time now, no obligations, your whole life is yours, so take your time and walk. Not everyone would want a car. And if you did, then get one off the assembly line. I'm thinking everyone would keep what they have at this moment, and then the switch would happen when the technology was introduced to keep factories and machines running, so people would have to be patient for a bit before there were enough things to go around. I don't know if there's a way to do this, but we could probably have some recylcing place where you can bring your old crappy tv and melt it down to help make a new plasma one or something. Go to Good Guys. Look at all the TVs they have just in that one store. I'm sure we have enough resources to provide everyone who wants one with one. We can provide all that stuff to everyone who wants one now, as long as they have money. So I'm saying get rid of money, and it wouldn't be too different, just that more people would get what they want, more people would be crafting original product so earth isnt taken over by wal mart and mcdonalds.

I don't call myself a communist. I've read the manifesto blah blah it's a sham anyway, it's a fake revolution. And starting a buisness, well it would depend on what buisness, but, hey, get some people who are interested is it that hard? Just like today, only you get the folks who really are interested in what you're doing, they're not there for their own pay, they really care now. That's why I think quality in things would skyrocket. I never said there was no work.
I love work. I don't love pointless work. And since we're dependent on the dollar to live, so many pointless jobs are created just so people can have jobs, like wal mart or mcdonalds.
I dont know what youre talking about, "randomly picked to control it". You control yourself.
I know it's not reality, no I do not have difficult time dealing with today's world, I get along quite well actually, but I figure why not use my brain and come up with ideas as to how everyone can have it better, because, why not?
I know it sounds foggy because I'm still describing it to myself.
I think you need to wake up to all the negatives having a currency system creates, then maybe you'll see how we sorely need another way, or else we will bury ourselves in this stressful fiction.
Peace.

 

So how is that fair?

OK, for example: You head down to the supermarket, they have no carrots, you want carrots so you offer to go on an errand towards the nearest carrot farm, in one of the supermarket's trucks and pick up a truckload of carrots and bring it back to your supermarket. You take whatever is produced locally and needed in the direction of your destination. Trade really is that simple. It's about getting things from where they are produced to where they are consumed. It's not about numbers on a screen and "Buy low, Sell high!"
I can't help seeing the growth of cities on this planet as analogous to tumors. They suck in nutrients from the planet and all they produce is money.
Frankly I don't believe you're a real person Midnight Moonlight. You really need to just.. just think about stuff. Is it because this system is the most fair that you like it or because it's good to you? Or are you just afraid of personal responsibility? How is "Survival of those best at making money" in any way the same thing as "Survival of the fittest"?

 

I'm going to respond but I'm going to bed so I'll reply to this for now, quick food for thought:

"Yeah, no shit, whats the difference if you gave him money to deliver the carrots, then he could buy some carrots or what ever food he wanted?"

Exactly, what's the difference?
The main difference is there is no straight system that regulates you and your possesions, your way of life. A monetary system will always have criminals that cheat it in violent and harmful ways. Think of identity theft, bank robberies, pety theft, it's all a product of a money system, so are all the things like welfare, home loans, black markets, poverty, divisions of countries, wars...
So the difference here is trade is free, fair, and safe. you want all that shit? great! go find it.

no, finding it isn't that hard

good night

yeah another thing, nobodys guaranteeing the same for you. now it is a lot more personal because you decide what you want and where youre going to get it from if you can find it. with worldwide communication and transportation all you have to do is find it and its yours. everybody is now unique, there is no rich or poor, yet nobody is the same, because everybody is their own individual state/class, the maximization of your personality, unique and creative, pure
sure you can do that here, but with sevre limits

 

This world is too corrupt for communism to work properly ie everything free and everyone in gratitude and happiness with no deprivation. We live in a very fucked-up world.

 

First I'd just like to say thanx for chillin on the multiple question marks and exclamations. That's made you sound a lot more rational at a stroke.

About the futures markets. I met a guy a while ago who used to be a full time trader and even he couldn't tell me what the market achieves in real terms - that's why he quit.

You buy stuff before it's ready (with your excess cash) at below market value then when they're ready you sell, and generally get a lot more cash than you spent. Whether you gain or lose money, the same amount of crops are produced but if you've made money (which most traders do) then that money has been added to the final price of the food.

I'm glad you picked food as the subject for this mini-debate because, I guess you don't know, food is not a commercially viable crop in the industrialised world. Governments have to pay farmers NOT to produce food. If it wasn't for financial intervention we would pay much less for our food and a lot of farmers would go broke.

Food is obviously essential, yet in capitalism, without government intervention, it's valueless. That to me is the fact that brings the whole of capitalism crashing down as a system. This is sociology and when I see a system that cannot support food production (a pretty major flaw I'm sure you'll agree) I say that system has failed as a means of running society.

You keep going on about how everyone would use and abuse the system we propose but I promise you they would not be able to do it in such a way as is done in capitalism. Such that they (futures traders, big farmers who own so much land they can afford to leave a lot of it bare to collect the government check, anyone with spare money in some way or another) can live off the work of others and still be a proud and respected member of society.

 

Why don't all the "communists" shut the fuck up and take a taste of reality? Your ideas are just that, ideas. They're not going to materialize. Stop wasting your time and 'fighting' against capitalism by bickering with the people in touch with reality on message boards. Bottom line, communism is a theory and that's all it will ever be. Seriously, you commies are delusional.

 

i dont consider myself a communist, i dont think random andy does either. if you compare what communism actually is from the people who wrote it with what we're talking about it is vastly different. i would see this as a combination of both.
and if all it is is ideas, why are you so upset with it, shut the fuck up?
why dont you calm the fuck down and get out of this thread if you dont want to read it.
or better yet, why dont you go back to 1776 and tell the founding fathers to shut the fuck up, quit "fighting" and stay in touch with reality.
you can tell teh same thing to ghandi and mlk.
blacks sit on the back of the bus, martin, stay in touch with reality.

if it werent for people like us thinking about alternatives, and if there were more people like you who are so complacent, wed still be hanging out in the trees eating bananas.

 

u have a tremendous gift of communication kevin blaze. i haven't forgot ur chart either.

 

yeh and notive that he doesn't give us any idea of what system he likes?

 

aye *nods in solemn agreement*

Ewan, I think he has described the system he likes quite adequately, if you'd read the thread.

 

LMFAO! Or a tremendous gift of making shitty comparisons.