Things people do to their kids?

at least once a day at work i have a lady with kids telling me to never have them.
Last week, i had a really grouchy one......she had 2 kids, who seemed fairly well behaved...they were sitting in the cart talking to their mom. She said, "Don't you ever have kids, you'll be in hell all the time." i told her that I already have one at home and she said in this really rude tone, "oh, you pooooor thing."
I couldn't wait to get her through my till.......

 

I heard a really great comment once, and I have used it a few times.

"Yeah, I was a perfect parent, too. Then, I had kids...." LOL!

I actually DID have a sugar free home for a number of years. Nothing but what my kids now call "Meeting Food" (the grainy health food stuff we serve at LLL meetings) and I would find my kids eating out of the sugar bowl (which was there, mainly for company.) I relaxed a little more with Lennon. I have three good eaters, and Sage has damn, can't think of the name (I'm having a menopause moment) where she gets all weird about textures and sounds and stuff.......the kid eats very little. Ate everything as a baby and toddler, and gradually started leaving stuff out of her diet, as the Sensory Integration Disorder progressed. (That's what it is.) She recently started eating apples again. YAY!!!! It is one of the few fruits she will eat. She will eat organic fruit leather and some juices. But, damn, it's hard feeding that child. Mainly white food. Pasta, rice, (she will eat brown rice, but not if it it too dark or chewy) bread, tomato soup, cous cous, chopped chicken things, like chicken Kievs, fish filets, and pizza. We introduced EVERYTHING. She ate stuff as a toddler, we went on vacation, to Boston and Maine, and she started throwing up in restuants from the look and smell of other people's food about 3 years ago, and it has only gotten worse. My doctor keeps saying "Take her to an Occupational Therapist." I have NO idea where to find one. I keep asking her for a referal (which my insurance company requires) and she writes me a note saying "OT for Sage, SID." That won't be enough for the insurance company. (She is also supposed to have her IQ tested, as she should probably be in 3rd grade next year, instead of 1st, but it is hard to find the people you need to help you.)

I've gotten OT. But, my point was, I once thought all you needed to do was to have "good" food in the house, and you would have no eating problems, and that isn't true with ALL kids. All my other kids have pretty good eating habits, (although, Moon, who got the brunt of the "Meeting Food" mania is a bit of a junk food junkie (and she's vegetarian) she says it was my fault for "not allowing me to eat sugar as a little kid." I have no idea whether this is true or not. But, Moon eats a LOT of good food. Miso and good grains, and lots of fruit and veggies and tofu ect. Just that she also easts (blech) Doritos and Twinkies and crap like that. I don't buy it, but she can buy the crap at school.

Anyway..........

 

Kirsten, I hate when people diss their own kids and tell you not to have them. There is a womyn in our area, she seems like a nice womyn, unless I am with my kids, or talking about my kids. She has one son, he's about 23. One day, I was late to a neighborhood meeting, because I had to do something with one of the kids, and she said, "See, I was smart. I stoppped after one kid. If I had been smarter, I wouldn't have had any." I politely said, "I ENJOY my children." I mean, she has a RIGHT to not want kids, but to say shit like this to a SAHM (well, WAHM) of FOUR kids is a bit nasty! She often makes comments about what "hell" it is raising kids, and her son spent a good part of his childhood with her exhusband, and in day care, so I don't get it. He was a GOOD kid, maybe she just shouldn't have had any. (Maybe she didn't spend enough time with him to get to know him. Always just thinking about how much easier it was when he was in day care or with her ex.) But, I even used to hear her say things like this when the kid was AROUND! Someone once said something to her about it, and she got defensive and starting saying how much she "sacrificed" to "send him to college." Yeah, so he could LIVE there, was what she had told me before that. "At least he lives in the dorm. Bye, see ya at Christmas, unless you can get a freind to take you home for the Holiday. Hahahaha" I don't get people like this.

IMO, if you have the inking you may not want kids, probably don't have them. A few people "convert" but most of the people I know who don't like kids, don't like their own, either.

 

no kidding, eh?
I wonder how much mental damage this is doing to the kids?
i don't know why some parents think that they have the right to say things like that, especially infront of their kids....

 

My mother always instilled a good sense of right and wrong in me. She tried with my sister, but recent events have proven Amber just didn't catch on like she should have.
She never was one of those types of moms to say "Never have kids, they're hell." to someone....at least not in front of us. I know my dad and her and my stepdad all enjoyed me and Amb growing up. We gave them the usual kid fits....but nothing too bad (Unless you count my 15-16 year phase where I hated everyone and ended up getting a mighty big....11....felonies on my juvenile record....then I grew up real quick when threatened with juvy).
And, when we were little, we KNEW not to embarass mom in the grocery or some other form of shopping place or our butts were hers. She didn't care too much for the "If you hit your kids, you go to jail" thing. She just gave us a light smack....enough to know we were acting up, but not enough to leave any marks. So, she never really had a reason to say kids were hell. Haha.
She limited our sugar and sodas and whatnot....we couldn't really afford the stuff anyway growing up. We definitely scraped by when I was younger. I think that made me a more appreciative person, though.
I'm not saying she's a perfect mom....because she and I have had our rounds, I made the mistake of swinging at her once (I was 16 and she hit me real hard for calling baby sis a bitch....I still can't think of why I did it; and I swung back and definitely felt like a jackass)....but she's MY mom and I like the way she raised me. It isn't up to par with those political yuppies that think a little smack here and there to show DISCIPLINE (after saying STOP over and over doesn't work) is going to damage the child for life, but it brought me up just fine.

 

I had a very abusive father and that's one thing I'll NEVER do to my children... there are alot of things I went through as a child that I am soooo happy my children will never have to go through.. I look at my son all the time and I can't understand how someone could ever do something like that to their child.. my mom left when I was 10 and I never could understand it when I was little but now that I'm a mom I think it hurts more now when I think about it cuz I look at Aden and think "how could you??"
I know that the cycle of abuse stops with me.. I am going to do EVERYTHING differant with my children..

 

I do the same thing. I don't know how anyone could leave their babies. I don't know how mom's who give up thier babies for adoption do it, either.....it must be so hard. Just thinking about it, my heart feels like it's being twisted and yanked.
Nither of my parents ever left, but my dad and I used to get into physical fights all the time. His favourite thing to do was use his belt....and I hated it. I felt completely humiliated....and it still didn't stop me from doing stupid things.......
My mom and dad got divorced when I was 10, and my dad has told me and my sister before that if he could do it again, he would have nevr gotten married and had kids. Honestly, it didn't faze me that he said that, but still was rude.

 

yeah my dad hit with the belt too.. I know that feeling.. the way people found out about the abuse was I was in gym and my shorts didn't cover the welts on my legs..
I never thought it made me not want to do shit either.. it just made me fear him more..

I had to give a baby up for adoption too.. when I was 17.. my now hubby and I were too young and my dad wanted us to get married or I couldn't live with him.. we knew it wouldn't work out if we got married then and I couldn't have a baby in that abusive house so we had to do the right thing and give her the life she deserved... it was seriously the hardest thing I ever had to do.. but also the most unselfish so it's easier to handle now.. it was also an open adoption so we get pictures and letters and telephone calls and soon we will be meeting her in person, she is going to be 4 in july and they want her to know us and to have a relationship with us.. I'm happy that my two children will know eachother.. it means sooo much to me.. they are the most amazing people in the world.. I can't imagine mothers that don't have what I have.. never knowing anything about her would have killed me..

 

wow, that must have been hard, but very couragous!
That's amazing that her adoptive parents want you to get to know her, I'm so happy for you!
I don't think that I could ever not know where my child is in the world, or what's happening....I'd go crazy.

 

that's exactly how I feel.. they are very good about making us feel like we're apart of her life.. they tell us about doctor visits.. she's already in singing classes and ballet... she's sooo smart.. it really helps to know how she is and what she's doing.. and she doesn't live far at all... probably like 45 minutes.. it makes me feel better to know..

 

goddess, I am so glad you are still able to have some contact with your child. You did the only thing you could with the situation you were dealt. It seems you are healthy and have peace with it.

Blessings to all the mamas and daddys who survivied abuse, and resolve to break the cycle.

Exactly. That's how physical punishment works.......or rather DOESN'T work. It simpy doesn't work. Children simply learn to be better sneaks or liars so they don't get caught. Hitting never changed anyone's actual thinking or behavior for the better.

Blessings, mamas.

 

sadily, cody and I are a little at odds here.....he's no abuser, by any means, but he was raised in a house where if you didn't listen the first few times, you got a swack. He wants to raise Leane that way, but I am totally opposed. He thinks that since he turned out good, doing the same thing with Leane will work. we've had too many fights about this lately, *sigh*
I need to find a little more proof that hitting does nothing...

 

Any Developemental Psyc text. Any Attachment parenting website. Anything by Dr Sears or Katie Allison Granju or the book "For Their Own Good" (I'll find the author for you.) It is about how physical abuse or any physical punishment simply does no good, and always does harm.

My dh was the same way. I'd go as far as to say his father was definately abusive. He BEAT my now dead Brother in Law, who went on to destroy himself at the age of 18. (he died of an "accident" but it was at least the second life threatening "accident" the boy had in less than a year.) I just made it very clear to my dh. "You hit these kids, I call the cops and leave you, and you can support ALL of us while we live somewhere else. NO judge will be on your side!" (Yeah, the argument got nasty.) He had to learn that I meant it. My children's safety was more important than our marraige, but, we are still married, so he must have eventually got it.

I made it clear to my dh, very early. "I love you a LOT. But, the kids are more important, and I will always do what is right for them, rather than defend you, if you try to hurt them." Tough love with/with a husband, but it had to be done, with his coming from the background he did. It took a few years (of course, whenever the kids misbehaved, he insisted they wouldn't have done it if he was allowed to spank them) but, after a while, he saw freinds, and how their SPANKED kids were much more badly behaved than our SAFE children, and evetually saw the light.

There is a lot of literature you can show him, before you have to get out the big guns, though.

 

Alice Miller has written some great books about child abuse and the Roots of Violence. This is an interesting article with an interview with Ms Miller.
http://www.nospank.net/miller4.htm

Any of her books would be good. Most libraries have them. Here is a quote about Ms Miller's work.

And the fact that the American Academy of Pediatrics condenmed hitting children nearly 10 years ago!

 

but... that IS abuse. It's abuse when you use fear and intimidation to control another person's behavior. It would be considered domestic violence if he hit you to control your behavior, or even used the threat of punishment in any form. Why is it okay to treat children this way? The one thing that made the biggest difference for me, and for my husband, was when we realized that sometimes we do things to our kids just because that's what our parents did, and not for any *real* reason. I often catch myself getting angry with my children, not because of what they are doing is wrong, but simply because my parents reacted in anger when I did those same things. I have to remind myself that's not how I want to raise my kids.


another thing I find somewhat funny, and somewhat disturbing at the same time, is that in my daughter's favorite book, Misty of Chincoteague, they advocate "gentling" a pony rather than "breaking" it, treating a horse with kindness and respect instead of bullying it into behaving out of fear and using physical punishment... but at the same time, Grampa Beebee threatens to beat the children with a strap. Funny how the world is aghast at the way people used to train horses in the past, but still accepts it when people use those same techniques on human children. how sad is that????

 

Sad. Extremely sad.

 

Kirsten hon, can I tell you my own story on spanking? I grew up in a home where spanking was very popular. I would get spanked for EVERYTHING. And sometimes it was with things like wooden spoons... and sometimes I was slapped across the face. (That was by far the most degrading, IMHO!)

When my son was born, I swore that I would never:
strike my child out of anger or frustration
spank him with anything other than my own open hand
or spank with the intention to cause pain.

I thought these personal guidelines made sense, and stuck to them. But one day when my son was about 3 years old & we were watching his little play-buddy, he hit him. And my immediate instinct was to raise my hand to give him a swift swat to the behind & tell him not to hit others. Somehow "hit kid, then tell kid hitting is wrong" just didn't seem right to me. What kind of message would that be sending to him? That it's okay to hit... if you're bigger/older/meaner...???

When I thought about it like that, the entire concept of spanking just fell apart. Why do it? What does spanking teach? Somehow all I could come up with was that it teaches "I am bigger, so the rules don't apply to me." That is not what I had wanted to teach... and I doubt it's what your husband really wants to teach either.

I have not spanked my son since that day. And I have never spanked my daughter. Sometimes I seem to need to learn the hard way. Spanking just never seemed to work anyway... all it did was cause my son to be angry; just as it did when I was spanked as a child.
love,
mom

 

My parents hit me as a child; infrequent, bare hand, as a last resort, but even so. It took a while but I have forgiven them. My parents were doing the best job they knew how to do, acting out of love, and in other respects they were good parents.

The 'smacking era' was during the early/mid 90s, and I guess the majority of people didn't know better. There weren't books and TV shows talking about 'time outs' and such. You just followed your parents example because well you turned out pretty OK.

Having though it over, there is just no logic to hitting children. It doesn't ultimatly achieve anything productive, there are other effective ways, kids are either too young to understand or old enough to be reasoned with etc.
That and yes my parents hit me, but nobody else can, I'm not allowed to hurt my brother* or any other kids#, you can't hit back, violence in that form has no acceptable place in the outside world etc.
Thing that disturbs me most though is what kind of example does that set? Boys learning that it is acceptable for those bigger/stronger/older to dominate those who aren't. Girls believing you can 'deserve' to be hit, that it is forgivable because the hitter loves them ... yup it's domestic violence waiting to happen.

*I did though, and vice versa. Guess it's an inevitable phase. We've leant better coping strategies now.

#aside from one exception ... when I was 11, there was a kid picking on my brother and I pulled this kid off him and whacked the brat right round the face. Off the record I got away with it, because that kid was an evil bully and I was acting on instinct to protect my sibling. Even so WTG setting a good example.

 

These are basically all the things that I've been stressing to him. I also brought up to him that Leane looks to her dad to see how a man should treat a woman....if she sees him hitting either one of us, she's going to think that it's ok, and so follows the domestic abuse when she grows up.
Every reason that you guys listed is why I refuse to do it. Cody's not really an 'attatchment parent,' which can make things a little hard sometimes. He's VERY old fashion with the same beliefs that his parents have.
We never really did talk about parenting styles before we got pregnant with Leane, as we didn't think we would be having kids anytime soon, or at all for that matter....we were just a young bf/gf couple living together. So we were a little side-swiped when we realized how different we were when it came to our parenting ideals, but we're working through them as they come.
My oma and opa were actually exactily the same way, where my opa hit and oma talked to the kids. In my mom's opinion, she says that it made her respect him, which I think is pure bull shit.....
In our case, I'm going to do absolutly anything and everything to prevent it.
I'm going to print off that article maggie posted (thanks BTW)

 

Fear does not equal resect. I once had an argument with a freind of my dh's who said "You have to beat boys." (I had two kids at that point and he had none.) He told me he "respected" his father.......whom he never spoke to. I asked him point blank. (as a child, he was beaten regularly, which he said was "normal." altough girls, he thought, should be hit, but not "beaten too badly.") I asked him point blank. "Do you really respect your father or do you hate him?" He started to get angry with me, then tears came to his eyes and he left the room. My quiestion was answered. His father was alive, his children who "respected" him soooo much had no contact with him.

I respect my dad. He was not a hitter. I was a well behaved child, who was taught to think for myself. I don't hate my father, I respect him because he is an intelligent, caring man, who took good care of me as a child, and even now. THAT is how a parent EARNS respect. Fear is not the same thing.

I would imagine George W Bush was hit a lot as a kid. Now he has to hurt others to get "respect" and because he is "bigger." He loves targets who can't fight back. Iraq, womyn, the American people (well, we CAN, but often don't) smaller countries. Notice how he doesn't attack China. China is bigger. Sheesh.