They ARE concentration camps

Oh, my, god

You quoted a post of mine that said asylum seekers

Then you reply with those stats dont include some of those that overstay a work visa


?????

Be....cause.....nothing says refugee, aslyum seeker, marching in a caravan for 2000 miles like someone that already has a .......work visa

Thread title is "They are concentration camps"

Why the hell are you talking about work visas now?(yes thats what the article you linked said most overstayers - work visas)

....other than of course to shift the subject away from the fact that yes 2/3 to 3/4 of border crosses are able bodied males

 

That's good you agree with harsh penalties for businesses.
I also agree corporations have the power to hide behind the media, but it isnt just giant corporations that employ illegal labor. Small construction companies do it frequently, as do restaurants, agricultural farms etc
It's also worth noting the profit margin tends to be very small in some of these industries
I dont really agree with a company not paying their employees a living wage and I believe anything less is exploitation, but at the same time the reality of the situation cant be ignored - and that is, if an industry has a 10% profit margin while relying on illegal labor (the agricultural industry is one with a 10% margin. Source: an NPR news story that stuck in my head) then we all know what would happen if they suddenly stopped hiring cheap illegal work and hired Americans with higher wages and health insurance and benefits instead.
It's a complicated issue that deserves a thoughtful examination by lawmakers in this country rather than appealing to the most xenophobic members of their base. A lot of those lawmakers have probably presided over companies that hire illegal immigrants though, further complicating things.

Why do I think immigrants are scapegoated instead of the businesses that create a demand for them? Because I rarely ever hear anyone mention illegal hiring practices, only "those illegals need to get out of my country" and such. When I do hear illegal hiring practices mentioned it's usually me doing the mentioning lol

 

As melial says, your stats aren't about asylum seekers, so they serve no purpose in this argumnent other than to try to snow us.

 

Or tourist visas. They get detained as well, I don't see why you don't find that relevant.

I asked you why the gender of the people who get detained matters, and I'm the one changing the subject?

We shouldn't have deterrence based immigration policies because they're both cruel and ineffective.

 

Indeed this is true, I have watched it happen in real time since the late 90s. Around Atlanta most of the construction jobs were held by black Americans. In the 80s and early 90s you'd see it at any construction site, a few white engineers and managers, and a fantastically disproportionate number of black foremen and laborers. The few white workers you saw were usually there for other contracted work like ducting, plumbing and electrical (union-protected sort of work).

I got out of construction work in 1999, but only because I was chasing a buck and found a better situation writing about it. The transition from American construction teams to "immigrant" construction teams took only a few years in Atlanta. At the same time the city was razing the housing "projects" and moving the residents out to the suburbs under section 8. This meant that the people who used to work construction jobs didn't immediately realize they had been replaced by people who worked for 1/2 to 1/3 rates.

It was a devious plan cooked up by wealthy assholes who should STILL be in jail. Instead, they donated heavily to politicians in Atlanta who are currently under various investigations and indictments for governmental corruption (Bill Campbell brought all of this into sharp focus before he was carted off to prison).

Restaurants are another place where this has happened. Even the Chinese and Japanese restaurants have "immigrants" in the kitchens because they work cheaper than Asians. Several years ago I was in a Hibachi restaurant when a Hispanic chef rolled the cart in and started confirming our orders. His use of English was so terrible I restated all of our orders in Spanish to ensure they weren't screwed up. While he did a great job during the performance with the 20 or so English words he knew well, which is often the case with Asian chefs as well, I still wonder what happened to the guy who might ordinarily be tossing the shrimp and making an onion volcano. I can only hope he moved to some place more cosmopolitan like LA or New York.

 

Do you not know the difference between a skilled blue collar job, and a menial job? C'mon, don't play dumb with me. I know you're smarter than that.

My example of the illegal immigrant carpenter who remodeled the kitchen is that of a more skilled worker who's willing to get paid dirt cheap, which messes up the job market for certified contractors who are legitimate citizens. Carpentry and other blue collared craftsmanship jobs are not menial jobs anyone can do; they take apprenticeships, training, and sometimes schooling to get good at. Their livelihoods are threatened by illegals in the job market.

When it comes to those who have no labor skills or education, some of those are likely to find comfort in living off the handouts provided by the system, rather than make a little bit more money working an unskilled job that doesn't pay much. Some people settle for a life of sub-mediocrity, so why would they work when the government is gonna subsidize them? Illegals don't get to live off the system. Get rid of the welfare state, and you'll see people coming out to fill in the voids of the job market. Soon employers won't have to prey upon illegals to exploit.

 

I'm just speaking a bit more broadly than your example
There is a labor shortage across the board in both skilled and menial jobs
Which isnt a bad thing as it means workers can demand better pay and benefits.
I only brought it up because you and another poster here tried to use the old tired "they took our jerbs" argument, when in fact there are plenty of jobs to go around right now.
And you're using an anecdotal story to prove your argument that unskilled and undocumented workers are taking jobs that normally go to skilled, trained American workers. Do you have statistical, rather than anecdotal, evidence to back this up?

My experience with landlords is they're shady and will cut corners when they can so I dont doubt your story, but most homeowners are not going to hire someone who is unlicensed because they care about their homes and want someone who can do quality work.

Since we're sharing anecdotal stories, here's a fun one: my boyfriend's mom is a typical xenophobic trump supporter who whines about "illegals" all the time, but she hired an undocumented worker to build her deck

 

I do believe Irminsul it was impossible for Trump to be Xenophobic and also personally beniifit from undocumented labor.

 

Oh, I get it now, neither of you have a clue how/when/where people apply for refugee status

There were a total of 733,000 deportable aliens in that previous link I gave from US customs and Border protection for 2015

Whereas total from around the world given refugee status in US in same year, 2015 was just under 18,000.

Table 17. Individuals Granted Asylum Affirmatively By Region And Country Of Nationality: Fiscal Years 2014 To 2016

1860 from Equador, 1099 Hondurus, 662 from Mexico. So 2 1/2 thousand roughly from those three countries vs roughly 400,000 deportable aliens from those three countries which includes refugee claims denied at the borders

So roughly only 1 in 160 are legal asylum seekers

Refugee applications are made to the UN before entering the country mostly. They can apply for refugee status once in the country but have next to no chance


So my next question is, how do you both get 31 pages into this thread without even looking up how someone gets refugee status or more easily check how many people are granted refugee status in the US?

 

Um. Refugee status is given to people before they enter the country
The application for asylum status begins when one presents themselves at the border or applies once inside a country
The two arent the same thing. That's why there's no chance to become a refugee once in the country, because at that point they would be applying for asylum.

And none of your post ^ has anything to do with your claim that 80% of asylum seekers coming from central America are men. You're just trying to spit a bunch of nonsense to redirect because you cant prove your claim and you're hoping we wont notice

But anyways let's not go in circles about this anymore because I dont give a damn if 80% are men, I don't see why that matters.

 

Yeah lol
Because if you're willing to pay someone $3 an hour to work for you, you clearly respect them and view them as equals

 

Which means they are not working in their home countries to better them. Instead they are coming in to make America better! (Seems like I've heard that term before)

 

Here is another interesting one

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Mar/bp-total-apps-fy1925-fy2018.pdf

Border Control numbers, years 1925 through to 2018

Over a million deportable aliens per year 1990 through to 2001(Bill Clinton was 1993-2001) then over million per year 2004, 2005, 2006

A massive 1, 676, 438 in 2000

Then from when Trump took office
2016 415,000
2017 310,000
2018 404,000


So basically, the "humanitarian crisis" was 4 times as bad 19 years ago than 1 year ago

 

I have a feeling I didn't post anything like this because it's got like 3 words I don't normally use.

 

You mean lets no go in circles about this before others work out or point out, yes refugee and aslyum seeker are the same thing

The only difference is if you do it once inside the country a US immigration judge determines in you fit the US definition of a refugee not the UN one - which only seems to work in priority one cases (political prisoners)

Your Homeland Security act -2002 (14 years before Trump became Pres) Means ICE can hold them as long as they see fit if they make a claim after they have entered the country, even though USCIS rejects most of them

Yes those deportable alien figures in the BCP include those that didnt have enough evidence for refugee status or just simply denied. Unless you think the 400,000 last year, or the 1.6 million in 2000 were all too dumb to try to claim asylum

 

So what is your point

 

Let's talk about the figures you posted above regarding the declining deportations.
This lines up with the decline in illegal immigration overall

I'll leave y'all to work out why right leaning politicians and their base, as well as right leaning media continue to act like we're being invaded by an illegal immigrant army despite the fact that illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades (and I would like to note this has been a steady trend, before someone tries to give credit to the current administration)

 

Quoted just in case somebody misses this point... Which they likely will.

 

Ha ha ha, unbelievable

Theres no humanitarian crisis, we can all go home then

Just as long as Trump doesnt get any credit, thats the important thing

 

That's the real overall point of this coup, Trump has managed to subvert the establishment. On both sides. Sure, the republicans seem to be with the program now, but really, who actually believes they are doing anything beyond marking time? Trump made fools of them, but they made it easy. Maybe that's what tortures them the most. After all, he was the democrat's darling for years. Then he linked with the GOP and humiliated them. Which made humiliating establishment democrats too easy (especially the Clintons).

That's what's particularly fascinating about this whole show, it's a direct rip from a WW2 movie (Away all boats). Only people who have watched the entire movie will get it.