THERE IS NO "GOD", Ok?

I have a fancy cigar cutter that is good for cutting off thumbs! Maybe I'll let you borrow it sometime.

 

Could you give a few examples?

Well, as I understand it, there are two theories about the universe. One is that it expands and then contracts. From what I have read (not much, admittedly) this theory is not well supported and has been losing ground (for reasons like insufficient gravity to stop the expansion of current galaxies). The other theory is that the universe is constantly expanding. If the universe has always existed, then we have an infinite amount of time not only in the future, but also in the past. An eternal universe would have expanded to a near infinite distance and, given that the chemical and thermodynamic laws would remain constant, all stars would be snuffed out and all nebulae would be devoid of matter necessary to create stars. We certainly could not be here, our own sun either going supernova or snuffing out in eternity past. Given an infinite amount of time having already happened, then eventually all stars should have died without a supernova in an eternity past. It seems that without a beginning, then the universe should be dead (as, at some point, it can be considered to be a closed system) if the 2nd law of thermo holds true and we have an infinite amount of time in the past to for entropy to accumulate. How does an eternal universe account for this? If I have misapplied the use of thermodynamics, please correct me.

But the relationship between the forms of matter and the laws that seem to govern them move towards either entropy or, at the very least, equilibrium. If the cosmos has always been, then, at some point in the googleplex of years preceding this one, at the very least, the universe should have spread to such an extent that even then nearest galaxy is 10 trillion light years away.

How you justify saying that we have cosmos over chaos when we have an infinite amout of time for chaos to occur?

That's entirely fair.

But statements like the above which speaks about our knowledge (though you put them in quotes so I think you take great care in asserting what we "know") makes me wonder who are we more like... Galileo, who questioned even that which was set down, or the Church, who believed they "knew." As an "enlightened" people (using that term very loosely), we should take great care in how we view radically differing theories of the universe (even if we deem them "pseudoscience" or "unscientific"). That's just a thought that I had that sprang from your comment. Anyway, pressing on...

Okay. If you say so. I really don't know what you mean. How would someone explain God through QP?

Just an aside, as a philosopher, how do you justify morality and (or maybe more appropriately) punishment of those who are immoral? What fundamental beliefs do you hold about right and wrong, good an evil? Are there moral absolutes? How do you justify them if there are?

Amen.

 

Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omnibenevolence are either self-refuting or contradictory to one or the other. No possible being could hold all these traits and not remain a plethora of contradiction--thus, "impossible", extremely illogical, irrational and nonsensical. Thus, it is the most reasonable conclusion to dismiss such absurdity.

The OBSERVED universe is based on a theory and the Christians constantly misinterpret the 2nd law of thermodynamics. BUT, my whole point isn't about the observable universe, but multiverses--the cosmos--EVERYTHING THAT IS, if you will. Since matter cannot be created or destroyed and matter/energy IS, it is logical, and follows what we have examined through science to be that energy (SOMETHING) always existed and that there is really no such thing as "nothing"--even dark space there are particles, atoms, subatomic particles. Everything is natural because there is no evidence given otherwise, but PLENTY that shows it to be true. Thus, no need for invisible man in the sky or "intelligent" design. If so, where is this "god" and where did "it" come from? Remember, since there isn't any viable evidence for the "supernatural" other than people's own interpretation of experiences they've had--there is no need to unnecessarily multiply entities or invent myths.

Again, we are speaking plainly of a natural result which would lead us to a "natural" cause and if so, then something natural had to exist in order to cause it. Since matter cannot be created or destroyed and since E=MC2, the most likely case is that something natural or nature itself has always existed in SOME FORM rather than an unproven, ignorance-one-step-back "god did it" solution.

Simple. We don't need an Invisible Man in the sky to be ethical and humane to one another. We just need to understand that if we want to live in peace and harmony--if this is the kind of society we want, it is in our best interest to treat one fairly and respectfully. Call it relative. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, "morality" or ethics (as I call it) is subjective. It is relative to the situation or circumstance at hand.
As far as punishment, well...call me a liberal, but I believe in reformatory punishment rather than retribution. I believe that altruistic tendencies in human beings result from experience and common sense rather than some objective, absolute moral law handed down by some invisible sky person.
We don't tolerate certain acts because they are harmful to either our lives or our peaceful existence. We don't want a society of thieves or murderers because such a society is not conducive to peace or harmony and would not last. Survival is an instinct and combined with common sense, we create the type of society that all can live best--only we have a LONG WAY to go still!

 

ah a guy after my own heart!!

now libertine, i'm not in agreeance that you will go to hell. but you have to come to terms with the fact that there is a God, whatever you call Him. it saddens me that you want so desperately to disprove what must be true!!! WHY? WHY??????!!!! >:^( libertine, why are you so bent on bringing down the faith of millions, when you arent even sure of your own? you confess by your own hand, that you have changed beliefs twice over, and still continue your search. wait until you are firmly planted into one and then search to attack others. until then, just shut up, or put up.

 

libertine, i feel you as a thirty somethign year old, who is jealous that everyone else has succeeded in life where you have failed, and yet, still having your squeaky teenage voice, you still try to make yourself feel superior by attempting to crush others' happiness, and joy and hope. i was wrong earlier. i now feel you either committing suicide very soon, or just completely dying inside from complete separation from God. i do however hope i am wrong. i panic when i think of what i feel will happen to you in the final days. i've begun to cry and worry. i shall be asking he who i believe exists to reconsider any harsh impositive consiqueences he may have layed out for you. i sincerely worried for you, Lib! honestly i don't like what i see when i close my eyes and ev=nvision what you will face!!! please, rethink your perspective here, not for me or anyone else, but for yourself, and for God.

 

God does exist, but he's not a guy in the sky. He's you and me and we are everything we see. We need God as much as we need everything, which is a lot.

No they aren't. How? God is everything. God knows everything because he is everything. God is all-powerful because all power is contained within all of existence. God is everywhere because everything is everywhere. God is benevolent because everything is indestructible.

 

Holy shit...you figured it out! I was just about to go tie up the rope.

Listen, pal...the insults don't help your case at all. Now who is acting like a squeaky teenager? Placing yourself up on a pedestal, there, ain't ya? Now who feels superior?

You know only what I've shared with you and you have attempted to make a mockery out of it.

Typical Christian love.

 

Omni-max is self-contradictory in the REAL world here. I don't know which world you live in. It is a LOGICAL FALLACY because it violates the Law of Contradiction (Non-Contradiction). On several levels.

Also, either you believe in "free will" or Theistic determinism. I take it you are a theist, right? No matter how many words and definitions you try to twist to fit in your little box-- it doesn't jell.

Omnipotence? What do you mean by that? The power to do ANYTHING? Or anything that is not intrinsically impossible?

Omnipresence? Everywhere, all the time? So, is "God" the Cosmos itself? Or beyond that which is the whole of existing things?

Omniscience? "He" knows everything past, present, and future? So, is this a puppet show or a cosmic video game he's playing? If "He" KNOWS (not guesses), but KNOWS what we WILL do, we MUST do it. No matter how many times we "change our minds", he KNOWS what the outcome will be, right?

Omnibenevolence? All-good? Yet, he KNOWS that the majority of people will go to Hell and fails to place anything convincing enough in their lives to prevent it? They may THINK they FREELY choose, but HE knew what they would "choose" before they were born? Thus, why let them be born to burn? Is it just for shits and giggles?

No possible way such an entity exists. The attributes given to this invisible, intangible man who went from Mt. Sinai, to the sky, to outer space, and is now hiding outside the observable universe are ridiculously insulting to reason.

Let's just take the myths as moral allegories instead of literal truth.

 

I gotta be honest here.. I pretty much figured you were an aging Marilyn Manson sort of Goth Teen who hasnt really been able to find any other identity and now turning 30 are trying to keep working this somehow.

Mind you, I dont even care one way or the other and your own identity crisis and unresolved 'Teen angst' or attention getting issues are not what makes your posts weak and/or retarded.
The posts themselves do that on their own.

annnnnddd .. Good night everybody!

 

Erasmus, your superior wit and Christian love is unparallel. Only Pat Robertson has you on both.



And... just FYI: I am not a "goth" by any means. I just enjoy artistic endeavors which are "gothic" at times. I'd rather listen to the Doors than Manson anyday.

 

see proof he isn't "goth" or he would of thrown in a anti-manson joke and yelled "Long live the Bauhaus*sp?*" or something

 

That means a lot to me coming from someone who's goal in life is to debut as a sort of 'Aliester Crowley meets Chris Angel': Dark Master of Illusion.
The 'AntiChris' as you would hope to be called.
You would hope to be dubbed that by Penn Gilette.
The day Pat Robertson comdemns you to Hell will be (in your ego) the day it was all worth it.

Pretty close?

 

I have to admit, that was quite amusing.

 

its a simple belief, manson is the shit also. erasmus is an idiot if you dont care dont talk. your opinion is that of an idiot also.

 

Ok guys, I'll be sure to record your wise sayings for future reference.

 

but your opinion is not always right.

 

because by saying theres a right is like saying that you have choose between good and evil. therefore declaring youself to a side. which then in turn makes the other people on the bad side (cause you believe in god and i figure u think that the good side) think your wrong.

 

...

 

There may not be a right and wrong in theory, but we don't live in theory. I wish I did, everything works there.
Do the right thing. I hope everyone knows what that means.
Even a dog knows when it's done something wrong.

 

well there is. the "right" thing to do is what you have been thought is the right thing. if that makes sense.