The terrorist Muslims!

cat the problem is its not some muslims doing bad things its mohammed and early muslims .

and if your shia I would guess you know who grand Ayatollah Sistani is he says that kafirs are najis unclean, hes the most senior shia cleric
http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/main/index.php?page=3&lang=ara&part=1
kafirs are number 8 on a list of unclean things
Urine
Faeces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.

you can check by looking at the drop down menu Im not sure if that means we are better than shit or dogs or pigs or on the same level

Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei is the guy who thinks kafirs could be used for medical experiments its on his website he thinks kafirs are najis to.

 

Quite clearly, they do themselves... they would claim that their interpretation of the Koran is the correct one and that you are a traitor to your faith, just as you would claim that your interpretation of the Koran is the correct one and that they are traitors to their faith. Happily those like you, who understand your faith to be one of peace are in the vast majority.

Jonny2mad actually does rather a good job of selectively quoting and interpreting the Koran to "prove" that it provides justification for jihadi terrorists, just as you do rather a good job of selectively quoting and interpreting the Koran in order to "prove" the opposite case. Both claims for "truth" are of course deeply futile. No text is unambiguous and those written over a thousand years ago will always prove particularly ambiguous when interpreted by modern readers.

What we tend to see is human culture throughout history continually interpreting and re-interpreting its ancient "holy" texts in the context of the current time and analysing current events through the prism of what these texts are understood by them to mean in their particular historical moment. Linguistic meaning is not fixed and there is no such thing as textual "truth", there are only a multiplicity of interpretations, none inherently "correct".

Terrorism and religious violence have much more to do with current sociopolitical context and the prevailing ideas in human culture at the time than they do with the actual text of any ancient book, because it is this context and these ideas which provide the real-world situation informing the textual interpretation used either to justify or condemn such actions.

Terrorism and condemnations of it are of course only ever political standpoints, the rather quaint literary-critical religious quibbles over textual meaning are actually rather irrelevant to the wider issues.

 

jonny 2 mad:

RE: you have sahih haddiths where mohammed has mens eyes put out and cuts off their hands and feet and sees them crawl around a stoney desert watching them until they die , in hadiths you have stoning .
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I read that haddith which some scholar doesn't say it is sahih but if its sahih did you read why he did that to them? Read it again. The haddith to consider it as sahih or false you have to study the (science of haddith = the knowledge of haddith= elm al- haddith) not just reading the books of haddiths, there are special colleges just to teach these stuffs which need several years to graduate. There are conditions to consider a haddith (sahih haddith) if you can speak Arabic , write in Arabic next time if you don't mind

RE: stoning crucifition ect ect takes a long time to kill someone , very painful how is this most mercyful ?
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Let me tell you how. When Allah gives somebody clear proofs that Quraan is his word and Muhammad is his messenger. But he insists stubbornly on not believing although he got the proofs? Ok Allah still patient with him didn't punish him so fast, he gave him another chances another proofs until when shall Allah be patient with him?
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5: 98
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Know that Allah is serve in punishment and that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Allah if will punish, then his punishment is painful yes. Still want to know how most merciful! Look to those who commit sins ( fornications, salacity, killing, …etc. still fine and living in fake happiness which will turn to sadness by god's punishment if they will continue their life that way some day or at the hereafter . Allah gave people many chances and forgave them when they ask him for forgiveness, Read these verses:
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54:6: When those who believe in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) come to you, say: "peace be on you; your Lord has written (prescribed) Mercy for Himself, so that if any of you does evil in ignorance, and thereafter repents and does righteous good deeds (by obeying Allah), then surly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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6:147: If they (Jews) deny you (Muhammad) say: "Your Lord is the Owner of Vast Mercy, and never will His Wrath be turned back from the people who are criminals, polytheists or sinners."
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7: 56: And do not do mischief on the earth, after it has been set in order, and invoke Him with fear and hope. Surely, Allah's Mercy is (ever) near to the good- doers.
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7:156: And My Mercy embraces all things.
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10:21: And when We let mankind taste mercy after some adversity has afflicted them, behold! they take to plotting against Our proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.)! Say: "Allah is Swifter in planning!" Certainly, Our Messengers (angels) record of that which you plot.
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3:159: …(o Muhammad) pass over (their faults), and ask (Allah's) Forgiveness for them;
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15:56: Abraham said: "And who despairs of the Mercy of his Lord except those who are astray?" look he called them astray?
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39:53: Say: "O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
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2:286: Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope. He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned. "Our Lord! Punish us not if we forget or fall into error, ..our Lord! Put not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Pardon us and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us.
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6:12: Say (O Muhammad): "To whom belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth?" Say: "To Allah. He has prescribed Mercy for Himself."(*)
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(*)The Prophet said PBUH: "Allah has divided Mercy into one hundred parts, and He kept ninety-nine parts with Him and sent down one part to the earth, and because of that one single part, His creatures are merciful to each other, so that even the mare lifts up its hoof away from its baby animal, lest it should trample on it." When you read about his mercy more, Had a disbeliever known of all the mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not have lost hope of entering Paradise, and had a believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not have considered himself safe from the Hell-fire.
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"When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His Throne: 'Verily, My Mercy has overcome My Anger.'"
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17:100: Say (to the disbelievers): "If you possessed the treasures of the Mercy of my Lord (wealth, money, provision.), then you would surely hold back (from spending) for fear of (being exhausted), and man is ever miserly!"
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The Prophet said PBUH: who doesn't be merciful towards people, Allah doesn't be merciful toward him. Look did you read it well.
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Let me jonny tell you something:
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The computer inventor, he invented the computer so that the computer will do what is ordered to him from the inventor, the inventor clicks on a folder twice and that mean in computer language (open the folder), so it will open it. If your computer doesn't respond to your orders , tell me honestly what will you do? He is not just not responding , he is doing other things that you didn't asked it to do it? Not just that, it is destroying, removing , deleting your precious stuffs and files?? honestly what will you do?
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Myself , I will kill him by removing the plug that the computer is connected to it.
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Consequently, look brother to your God, he is the most forbearing, Oft-Forgiving, clement, Most merciful, he is the one who accept repentance and the most gracious, he is patient to his creatures , may they will change someday and obey him , he is giving them long time and several chances, although they don't obey him and don't care
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Allah is the Most Gracious the Most merciful; he is providing the believer and the disbelievers in this world as you can see this, he is giving many chances
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Jonny2mad: ​

RE: it also says in the koran that allah puts a seal on some peoples heart so that they wont believe in him , and then he punishs them for all eternity for not believing in him .. if allah knows everything he would know before he made these people that he was going to put a seal on their hearts, why would he make them unless he liked being cruel
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2:6: verily, those who disbelieve , it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe. 7: Allah has set a seal on their hearts
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Allah said: verily, those who disbelieve , it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe
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Those disbelievers whom been warned before , whom been given proofs and evidences before and still do not want to believe. There are no use to warn them 17:15: … And we never punish until we have sent a Messenger (to give warning).
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The prophet PBUH said (sahih Muslim Book è1:65 i.e. [ 369:231:144]) note I translated it I don't think my translation is good I hope you will get it
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The fitnah (trials, persecution, confusion in the religion, etc) will offer on the hearts as the straw mat a straw by straw (i.e. stick by stick = the straw stick), whomever a heart accepted it then a black spot will scratch (or will happen or will be) in his heart, and whomever a heart will denied it then a white spot will scratch in his heart, until it will become on two hearts, on a white heart like the Safa (name of mountain) so then no Fitnah will harm him for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, and the other one (heart) is black (….i Don't know how to translate the likening of the black heart ) so he doesn't(the black heart) enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and he doesn't forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam forbidden), only what his desires want (accept as a bad thing or good think).
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i.e. ex. The disbeliever when you give him a proof and he denies it a black spot scratch in his heart. Next day you give him another proof he also deny it another black spot will scratch to his heart, and so on , until the blackness will cover his heart (seal) as long as he denying ,then it is no use to give him proofs any more.
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You can understand the verse 2:6-6 and my above ex. more from the following verses:
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4:154: And for (breaking) their covenant, we raised over them the Mount and (on the other occasion) We said to them: "Enter the gate prostrating (or bowing) with humility;" and We commanded them: "Transgress not (by doing worldly works) on the Sabbath (Saturday)." And We took from them a firm covenant. 155: Because of their (breaking) the covenant, and of their rejecting the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, and of their killing the Prophets unjustly, and of their saying: "Our hearts are wrapped (with covering, i.e. we do not understand what the Messengers say)" _ nay, Allah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief, so they believe not but a little.
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63:3: That is because they believed, and then disbelieved; therefore their hearts are sealed, so they understand not.
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Allah is not unjust Glorified is He and Exalted above all that evil you attribute to Him.
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It is exactly like the doctor, when the first time he wants to vivisect and anatomize a dead body , in the beginning he shakes but day after day it will become to him something very normal, he sees people bleeding , people in very bad situation it's ok, he will not throw up or will lack the appetite or will faint. He used to.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Jonny2mad:
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RE: what is the point of punishing anyone for all eternity, I mean the person being punished wont learn anything from it to their benefit because they will be in hell
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No dear, let me tell you, as I said: Allah gave them many chances, different proofs,
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17:15: … And we never punish until we have sent a Messenger (to give warning).
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Allah also punishes them (simple) punishment in this world, might they return,
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(1)
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7:168: … And we tired them with good (blessings) and evil (calamities) in order that they might turn (to Allah's obedience).
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(2)
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7: 174: thus do we explain the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, so that they may turn ( to the truth).
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(3)
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30:41: Evil (corruption, sins and disobedience to Allah) has appeared(**) on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned (by oppression and evil deeds), that He (Allah) may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah, and begging His Pardon / return from their association (joining others in worship with Allah) and sins to monotheism and obedience). 42: say ( O Muhammad) travel in the land and see what was the end of those before (you)! Most of them were Mushrikun (polytheists,idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah. 43: So set you (O Muhammad) your face (in obedience to Allah, your Lord) to the straight and right religion (Islamic Monotheism), before there comes from Allah a day which none can avert. On that day men shall be divided [ in two groups, a group in paradise and a group in hell]. 44: whosoever disbelieves will suffer from his disbelief, and whosoever does righteous good deeds ( by practicing Islamic Monotheism), then such will prepare a good place (in paradise) for themselves ( and will be saved by Allah from his torment).45: that he may reward those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah- Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous good deeds, out of his bounty
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(**)Evil (corruption, sins and disobedience to Allah) has appeared :
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Allah stated: ''He allows them as lawful At-Tayyibat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things , deeds , beliefs , persons ,foods),and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khab'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things , deeds , beliefs , persons , foods)…..''
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Chapter: 7, Verse: 157
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So, briefly, all good things are allowed, all evil bad things are prohibited. and allowance (allowing) is only God's right.God created us and everything and he knows best what avail us and what harm us, he wants our advantage. (who invented the computer knows best what disable the computer and what doesn't, because he invented it. when he says to you: be sure that sun's ray don't reach the computer otherwise it will disable the computer, or when he says to you: the computer is not waterproof, so, you will take account of his instructions), and of course the computer inventor has the right to give the instructions (do &don not) because he knows what he is saying.
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So, God created you and he knows best what avail us and what harm us, he wants your advantage, and looks how we return his favor?? We are thanklessness , ( if somebody tell you : brother ! don't eat from that restaurant , their viands are not edibles , you thank him and thinking of a way to return his favor to you , he saved your health) , so , when Allah prohibited ex. Fornication ,be sure that he prohibited it for a reason , and we don't need the scientists to prove if fornication is noxious , because we trust in God and beyond his allowing and prohibition a reason (wisdom) , and it emerged that fornication is noxious ex. It causes Aids and other things. Consequently, God knows best what avail us and what harm us, he stated:
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'' Should not he who has created know? And he is the Most Kind and Courteous, the Well-Acquainted (with everything)''
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Chapter: 67, verse: 14
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God told us the prohibited things so we will know it and then we will avoid it.Besides to that, we have to know that beyond prohibitions some other (wisdoms) ; he wants to test us , so that he may see us how we act ?A test from the God to us to know how you will deal with it? will us obey him or not?
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God stated:
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'' Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: ''We believe,'' and will not be tested? – And we indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test). ''
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Chapter: 28, verses: 2&3
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Jewellee is one of whom converted to Islam has said:
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Following Gods direction (awkward to call it law because it's much more than that)
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Virtually, the religion of God is the religion of life. When you want to have an adventure let say in a forest , you will take a compass , map and a booklet to warn you from things and to guide you to what you have to do if you have an accidents, get injured, …etc . And that is the religion of God , it is a compass , map and a guide-book to the happy , safe , salubrious and assured life.
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And as I said previously: Look to the life , we can't live this life without rules , each country over the world has its own rules ( constitution ) and without it the world would miss , I think there wouldn't be a life ? every body will kill the other (revenge or whatever) , stealing ,nothing will stop them , now there is rules and the crimes are in high levels , what will happen then without rules , Oh my God ( MERCY ) ,So , creatures need rules too from who knows them very well ( of course God the creator) Allah stated :
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'' should not he who has created know? And he is the Most Kind and Courteous, the Well-Acquainted ''
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'' should he not know what he created?''
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Chapter:67, verse:14
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(4)
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32:21: And verily, we will make then taste of the near torment (i.e. the torment in the life of this world, i.e. disasters, calamities, sicknesses etc) prior to the supreme torment (in the Hereafter), in order that they may ( repent and) return (i.e. accept Islam). (i.e. è21: and verily, we make them taste the lower punishment before the greater, that haply they may return) 22: And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, then turns aside therefrom? Verily, we shall exact retribution from the Mujrimun (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners)
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After all these chances, simple punishment in the comparison with the punishment of the hereafter , they still don't want to believe? How do you want Allah to deal with them? They deserve the punishing for all eternity in the hereafter, there is no use with them.
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23: 99:
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Until , when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah), he says: My Lord! Send me back, 100: so that I may do good in that which I have left behind ! No!
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23:105: were not my verses (this Quraan) recited to you , and then you used to deny them?
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4: 18: And of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil deeds until death faces one of them and he says: Now I repent
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That is really honestly very long time and chance (since he mature (can understand) till before dying? What do they want more?
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Be honest, what will you do with an idle car, no use in reform it, you took it to all garages , no use, it is such a scrap metal and they will give your car the capital punishment .
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Jonny2mad:
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RE: and if your shia I would guess you know who grand Ayatollah Sistani is he says that kafirs are najis unclean, hes the most senior shia cleric
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Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei is the guy who thinks kafirs are najis to.
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Dear jonny2mad: on 29th of July I had argued on this matter with a shia Muslim (sheikh) he didn't give me any proofs, I had discussed with him the issue for a long time on the telephone, but Sistani doesn't consider the Christians and Jews unclean (people of the book) check up on the matter, and for any more things you are more than welcome although I am not a scholar merely a casual Moslem , but not here , you are talking off my topic, and again there is no use to discuss in these stuffs as long as you are not Muslim because we Moslems does not argue Allah's commands, you are very welcome by private messages but please phrase your sentences and questions in respect way, I am so sensitive about my religion so sensitive, so please respect my feelings. My best wishes go to you and hope all the righteous and wellbeing to you from all my heart
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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That makes sense.
Nice to be shown bits of the Quaran though, can't say i've read it.

 

showmet ​

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RE: they would claim that their interpretation of the Koran is the correct one and that you are a traitor to your faith​

They aren't scholars? I challenge every Muslim who claims that he is doing his brutal acts in the name of Islam to give me their Islamic proofs from Quraan??? What are their proofs which are supporting their deeds according to Islamic teachings? It is prohibited to explain Quraan's verses according to their desires. a Moslem Shiekh met one of those terrorist, and he canned change him by clarifying to him his misunderstandings. O Allah guide them to the right path and heal their sick minds and thoughts. Amen.​

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RE: Happily those like you, who understand your faith to be one of peace are in the vast majority.​

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RE: No text is unambiguous and those written over a thousand years ago will always prove particularly ambiguous when interpreted by modern readers…etc.​

O MY GOD, that is the utter ignorance about Islam and Quraan? But it doesn't matter to clarify it.​

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RE: Terrorism and religious violence have much more to do with current sociopolitical context and the prevailing ideas in human culture at the time than they do with the actual text of any ancient book, because it is this context and these ideas which provide the real-world situation informing the textual interpretation used either to justify or condemn such actions.​

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It is only one advice, read more or join in the Islamic free classes which presenting Islam and many other things that you have to know before reading Quraan, Haddiths, Tafseers etc. it's exactly like when you want to use windows programs , you have to learn how to use the keyboard and the mouse in the first place , my best wishes to you. ​

Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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showmet :​

RE: Terrorism and condemnations of it are of course only ever political standpoints, the rather quaint literary-critical religious quibbles over textual meaning are actually rather irrelevant to the wider issues.​

That's where I'd differ with you, every one has his point of view any way. I think my religion's (Islam) instructions and teachings etc, ours (Muslims) sacred sources (Quraan and Haddith) are fit for all times (epochs) and places. Quraan deals with all subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions, law etc, it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system. Any way in the returning to the main topic, Islam is something and Terrorism is some thing else
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Read the following, please:
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if you watched (abc) news on the 29th of July, they broadcasted an interview with (Shamel Basaieeve) a terrorist Moslem like Osama in Sheshan (Russia). Did you hear what he said? Did he say that Islam orders him to kill the innocent people to pressure on the Russian government!! Check up on the matter, please. Thousand thanks to Allah that he said the truth, I hope that Osama will do like him and link his brutal deeds to his stupid evil desires not to the Islamic teachings. I hope to see your (dead) body Osama soon I hope before my death.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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the quraan is a blatent rip off of the bible.. it has the same stories as the old and new testament just with different names to make it more appealing for the people it was to be used for..
in my oppinion.. and its a logical one. muhamad being a rich trader probably came across the bible in his travells. and re-wrote it. made it appealing for the people it was for... it talks an awful lot about riches and women infact i believe you are permitted 4 wives or somehitng like that...

in short this is a mirrored religion and did very well by coaxing people in with offerings of virgins and riches but essentialy its written by a man for men because at the time only men were deemed important... now why would god only deem men important.

but to suggest that it didn't spread at all by force is laughable.. especially considering the mentality of the world population back then.

the point is in my belief is that its just a bogus religion built on the back of christianity...
hinduism, judism, and christianity all fall at the birth of thier coinciding ages.. but islam just pops in around 615 ad... 4 hundred years after the bible had been in circulation and which contains pretty much the same stories.

muhammud had the money and the people to force this religion and he did very well.

 

Smartie.uk :
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RE: the quraan is a blatent rip off of the bible.. it has the same stories as the old and new testament just with different names to make it more appealing for the people it was to be used for.. RE: the point is in my belief is that its just a bogus religion built on the back of christianity...
hinduism, judism, and christianity all fall at the birth of thier coinciding ages.. but islam just pops in around 615 ad... 4 hundred years after the bible had been in circulation and which contains pretty much the same stories.
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There are too many of similar teachings between Islam and Christianity (you are invited to my thread [similar teachings between Christianity & Islam] in this link http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101956
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When you found similar teachings between Islam and Christianity that is meaning that some teachings in the Quraan was already existed before the Quraan has revealed, I mean the heavenly messages. We Muslims believe that Neither Muhammad (peace be upon him) nor Jesus (peace be upon him) came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it. Briefly Jesus and Muhammad are Allah's Prophets came for one message the belief in one God.
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42:13: He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic Monotheism) which he ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O Muhammad) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses and Jesus saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically)
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2:136: say (O Muslims), '' we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to [the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob] and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus, and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to him we have submitted (in Islam).''
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10:37: And this Quraan is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth) but it is a confirmation of (revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Torah and the Gospel] and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. the laws decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt – from the Lord of the (mankind, jinn, and all the exists)
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RE: it has the same stories as the old and new testament
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40:78: And, indeed we have sent messengers before you (O Muhammad): of some of them we have related to you their story. And of some we have not related to you their story.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Smartie.uk :​

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RE: in my oppinion.. and its a logical one. muhamad being a rich trader probably came across the bible in his travells. and re-wrote it. made it appealing for the people it was for... it talks an awful lot about riches and women
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God supported His last Prophet Muhammad with many miracles and much evidence which proved that he is a true Prophet sent by God. Also, God supported His last revealed book, the Holy Quraan, with many miracles that prove that this Quraan is the literal word of God, revealed by Him, and that it was not authored by any human being.
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The Quraan, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that the Quraan must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad , and that the Quraan was not authored by Muhammad or by any other human being. This also proves that Muhammad is truly a prophet sent by God. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods for an example open this link: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1492221&postcount=45
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By the way, there is other evidences which can answer others doubt if Is the Quraan truly the literal word of God, revealed by him?
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Is it possible that Muhammad might have claimed prophet hood?
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Allah stated:
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'' Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Quraan), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand. In that case, indeed the followers of falsehood might have doubted''
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29: 48
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This is a proof that the Quraan is from the God (WORD of the LORD) Because the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was illiterate in both (reading, writing), then he bring the Quraan,'' In that case, indeed the followers of falsehood might have doubted'' that if Muhammad (PBUH) was reading or writing then the disbelievers will be in doubt and they will say perhaps
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Muhammad learned that or read it in some where! But they didn't say that because they know that Muhammad was orphan (father &mother) , Poor and illiterate in both (reading, writing). He was living between them. Consequently, how did Muhammad (PBUH) knew what was written in the Gospel & Torah?? How did he know the stories about the previous messengers of God which has written in the Gospel & Torah??!! Surely, Allah has told him.
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Allah stated:
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'' And messengers we have mentioned to you before, and messengers we have not mentioned to you,… ''
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4: 164.
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'' We relate to you (Muhammad) the best of stories through our revelations to you, of this Quraan. And before this (i.e. before the coming of the Divine Revelation to you), you were among those who knew nothing about it ''
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12: 3
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Smartie.uk :
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RE: in fact i believe you are permitted 4 wives or somehitng like that...
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Yes, with conditions and it isn't a must.
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RE: in short this is a mirrored religion and did very well by coaxing people in with offerings of virgins and riches but essentialy its written by a man for men because at the time only men were deemed important... now why would god only deem men important.
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There is no record of Prophet Jesus opposing polygamy. If he did so, it would have meant that the condemned the practice of the prophets before him. There are a number of examples of polygamous marriages among the prophets recorded in the Torah.
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Prophet Abraham had two wives, according to Genesis: 16:13: ''So after Abraham had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, Sarai. Abraham's wife , took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to Abraham her husband as a wife".
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So did Prophet David, according to the first book of Samuel27:3: " And David dwelt with Achish at Gat, he and his men, every man with his household, and David with his two wives, Ahin'oam of Jezreel, And Abigail of Carmel, Nabal's widow''
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In the Kings 11:3: Solomon is said to have ''… had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines"
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Solomon's son, Rehobo'am ,also had a number of wives, according to 2nd Chronicles 11:21: " Rehobo'am loved Ma'acah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and concubines (he took eighteen wives and sixty concubines, and had twenty-eight sons and sixty daughters).
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In fact the Torah specified laws regarding the division of inheritance in polygamous circumstances.
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In Deuteronomy 21:15-16: the law states: 15: if a man has two wives , the one loved and the other disliked, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the disliked, and if the first-born son in hers that is disliked, 16: then on the day when he assigns his possessions as an inheritance to his sons, he may not treat the son of the loved as the first-born in preference to the son of the disliked, who is the first-born''
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the only restriction on polygamy was the ban on taking a wife's sister as a rival wife in Leviticus 18:18: '' And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is yet alive''
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The Talmud advises a maximum of four wives as the practice of prophet Jacobè (Women in Judaism,page:148)
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According to Father Eugene Hillman,'' Nowhere in the New Testament is there any explicit commandment that marriage should be monogamous or any explicit commandment forbidding polygamy è(Polygamy Reconsidered.page:140) He further stressed the fact that the Church in Rome banned polygamy in order to conform to Greco-Roman culture which prescribed only one legal wife while tolerating concubinage and prostitutionè (Ibid.page:17),
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Islam limited polygamy to a maximum of four wives with conditions.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Smartie.uk :
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RE: but to suggest that it didn't spread at all by force is laughable.. especially considering the mentality of the world population back then. RE: muhammud had the money and the people to force this religion and he did very well.
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Firstly: Moslem's deeds don't mean that they are practicing Islamic teachings; I mean we should not judge Islam according to Moslem's deeds, that's injustice. The bible prohibited fornication, but there are many of Christian people who have sex without marriage is that mean that Christianity allows fornication!!
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Secondly: you have to read these stuffs not from who hate Islam. And should read more and more. myself if I want to know the truth about something ex. Hindus I will read Hindus books and ask them and if I will read something has been written about them from non-Hindus I will ask the Hindus if that is true or claims.
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Thirdly: read more or join in the Islamic free classes which presenting Islam and many other things that you have to know before reading Quraan, Haddith's, Tafseer's, Islamic books etc. it's exactly like when you want to use windows programs , you have to learn how to use the keyboard and the mouse in the first place.
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Fourthly: Quraan, Chapter: 2, verse: 256.
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256: There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path….
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SO, forcible conversion is prohibited in Islam. The religion did not spread by the sword. There were military confrontations between the Muslim state and the existing world powers of Rome and Persia. However, the areas conquered were put under Muslim administration and the populations were free to maintain their own beliefs. Muslims ruled Egypt, Palestine and Lebanon from the 8th centuries. Muslims ruled Spain for 700 years and India for 1000 years without the vast majority of the population converting to Islam.
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The largest Muslim country in the world today is Indonesia, having over 200 million citizens, never saw a Muslim soldier. Islam spread there and in Malaysia and Philippines by trade. That was also the case of Islam's spread in West African countries like Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Chad and Niger. Also Islam is the fastest growing religion in America today with anywhere. This is taking place without any soldiers or even missionaries.
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Fifthly: whenever you see a Moslem forcing the others to convert Islam then he is acting according to his desire , even if he will claim that he is doing that in the name of Allah, they have to give their proofs??? What are their proofs which are supporting their deeds according to Islamic teachings?
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Sixthly: How did Christianity spread in Africa? Why did the Pope Apologized? (You don't have to comment on this because I believe that Christians believe in peace
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Seventhly: if I were you , if I were Christian, I will not care how did Islam spread, because what cares me that if Islam is a true religion or false, is Quraan Allah's word or what?
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Eighthly: if I were Christian and want to know if Islam is false or wrong I will not discuss its teachings, instructions…, I will firstly want to find out if really Quraan Allah's word or not ( the basic sacred book for Moslems). Because Moslems do not argue Allah's commands, Muslims is the adjective of the noun Islam: is an Arabic term which means: ''submission'', points to the fundamental religious creed which dictates that a Muslim submits to the will of Allah, conforming inwardly and outwardly to his lows. i.e.: the right way of life consisting of submission to whatever God has instructed. What is the benefit in arguing his commands and you basically don't believe in him as a God?
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Ninthly:
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Chapter: 64
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12: Obey Allah, and Obey the Messenger (Muhammad); but if you turn away, then the duty of Our Messenger is only to convey (the message) clearly. Not to obligate!!
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Chapter: 88
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22: You are not a dictator over them
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Chapter: 2
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256: There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path….
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Chapter: 109, verse: 1-6.
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1: Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): '' O Al-Kafirun è(disbelievers in Allah, in his Oneness, in His Angels, in his books, in his messengers, in the day of resurrection, and in Al-Qadarè(Divine Preordainment)! 2: I worship not that which you worship, 3: Nor will you worship that which I worship. 4: And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping, 5: Nor will you worship that which I worship. 6: To you be your religion, ant to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism).''
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Chapter: 6, verse: 108.
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108: And insult (revile) not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, …
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We shouldn't judge Islam according to Moslems deeds
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Smartie.uk :
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RE: muhammud had the money and the people to force this religion and he did very well.
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If you are talking about the wars which happened in the prophet's life then read more , why did those wars happened? Don't take your information from sources which are giving you incomplete information, there are reasons for these wars you have to read these stuffs not from who hate Islam. Again: myself if I want to know the truth about something ex. Hindus I will read Hindus books and ask them and if I will read something has been written about them from non-Hindus I will ask the Hindus if that is true or claims.
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Quraan
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2:190: And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.
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Quraan​

8:61: But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and put your trust in Allah​

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Or do you want us when somebody will fight us to turn our left cheek to him!! We have to defend our selves. I challenge you if somebody strikes you on the right cheek you will turn to him the other also, because if you will do this then that means you are encourage the unjust!! Why there is many unjust people (leaders today) because the people when had saw the first injustice from them, they didn't do anything , they were afraid to give their truly reaction against their deeds! Exactly as SADAM HUSSIEN!!
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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O Members will you stop taking off my topic
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If you want to discuss with me in any other topics then you are more than welcome by the private messagesJ
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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one race

 

yup... realise this probably wasn't the right thread for that last thought.. but i didn't think it was worth starting a new thread about so i said it hear... good a place as any. seeing how there is a muslim here to answer my questions/ aspertions.

you asked a while ago what i believed. well here it is smartism;

that force that is around us which most scholars have personified into monoithiest gods. is nothing more than the eb and flow of the universe itself.
but such a powerful role it plays on our life that people born within a certain cosmic period have certain similarities. the acient astrological cultures like the myans, incas, and egyptions, and even the chinese with their i-ching had worked this out. tao is about becoming part of nature because we are inseperable. the books that have been written as religious/instruction manuals were written by people who knew what was going on. moses( i beleive he appears in the quraan under a different name) was brought up in the house of a pharo so naturally would have learnt the idea of astrology; and seeing the turn of an age, with the blessing of the egyptian preists, lead (his) people into the dessert to form a new religion away from the constraints of the polythiest pharo. judaism was born.. 2000bc the turn from the age of tarus to that of aries. the writings of moses (which were based on existing texts from the babylonians and greeks) explains this transfer of ages clearly.

similarly the new testament.. compiled by emporer constantine.. was based quite obviously on the writtings of the astologers that followed the age of picies. (the turn of ages from aries to picies was around 200ad) jesus is the personification of the age of picies. the rules compiled with in the new testament were written because of the mentality the astrologers forsaw for this age.

this is the basis of my belief and what made people like confusious disregard the idea of a god completely. as well as many of the modern exestentialist philosophers.

don't get me wrong.. im not a hot headed big bang theory scientist, i am one of the most spiritual people i know. but its a independet spirituality. i dont need someone elses instructions on how to be spiritual. as a human being i am naturally so. and because of this enforcement of philosphy i find orthodox religion, well quite frankly i find it disgusting.

people should be encouraged to be spiritualy free, not bound by dogma and dated doctrines.

why pray five times a day.. every day of my life is done as a worship of life itself and a prayer of thanks for being allowed into the flow of the universe.

do i need a mosque or a church for this... nope.. do i need to stop eating pork or beef for this.... nope... do i need an intire nation of people all thinking the same thing.... nope....do i need a respect for the flow of nature and the cosmology of the universe. i think so.

ploytheism has died.. now do is the time for monotheism to follow suit and leave way for a clear global conciousness to accept the univerism of the next age.